UN warns of ‘blatant disregard for basic humanity’ in Gaza warfare

[Morch]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I see the old "if you don't support israel you must be a supporter of terrorists" BS is being trotted out.

Do they call Jews that oppose the israeli actions in Gaza anti semitic?

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Oh, that again? The coward's solution for responding to posts he supposedly 'ignores'? 

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, and there are Zionist factions within Israel and Israelis. There are also peaceful factions. I don't know why you can't understand and admit this. 

 

You insist that all 'Zionist' factions are not pro-peace. This is factually incorrect.

And spin it as much as you like, the USA does not deal with 'Zionists', but with Israel and Israelis.

[WDSmart]

40 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

For starters, I'm aware that Israeli troops have been operating inside the Gaza Strip for weeks.....Came as news to you the other day, didn't it?

Yes, I thought they would just bombard Gaza with missiles, drones, and artillery before sending in troops. I did not know they had invaded with troops at the time of that post.

[WDSmart]

32 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You insist that all 'Zionist' factions are not pro-peace. This is factually incorrect.

And spin it as much as you like, the USA does not deal with 'Zionists', but with Israel and Israelis.

This is all in the way you define "Zionist." I, as I have said many, many times before, define it as the faction that wants to completely occupy what used to be called Palestine. And within that faction, there are extremists who are not pro-peace. In fact, I assume most of them are not, and they want to completely control Palestine using whatever tactics they need to.

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

When did I say I don't know about Jews? I said I don't approve of alot of Israeli govt. policy. 

 

Chill. Didn't mean you. Thought your reference was about people in NYC not knowing about Jews.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, I thought they would just bombard Gaza with missiles, drones, and artillery before sending in troops. I did not know they had invaded with troops at the time of that post.

 

You're just digging deeper. There was indeed an initial phase (two weeks or so) of bombardment, which was followed by a ground move. At the time you posted (which was two day ago or so) this was on for weeks. How you could have 'missed' that, I have no idea.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

This is all in the way you define "Zionist." I, as I have said many, many times before, define it as the faction that wants to completely occupy what used to be called Palestine. And within that faction, there are extremists who are not pro-peace. In fact, I assume most of them are not, and they want to completely control Palestine using whatever tactics they need to.

 

How you insist on defining things does not mean a whole lot outside of your personal bubble. It is also incorrect, factually - nevermind misleading, as it associated attitudes with groups who do not subscribe to them.

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

You're just digging deeper. There was indeed an initial phase (two weeks or so) of bombardment, which was followed by a ground move. At the time you posted (which was two day ago or so) this was on for weeks. How you could have 'missed' that, I have no idea.

I think that post was almost a week ago, but it was well after the ground invasion started. LIke I said, I did not hear (or take notice of) the ground invasion when it started. When I posted, I thought the initial bombardment only was still continuing with only a few little "sneak" ventures into Gaza with soldiers. 

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How you insist on defining things does not mean a whole lot outside of your personal bubble. It is also incorrect, factually - nevermind misleading, as it associated attitudes with groups who do not subscribe to them.

But, it is how I describe them, and will continue to do so... 

[CharlieH]

Bickering removed.

 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I think that post was almost a week ago, but it was well after the ground invasion started. LIke I said, I did not hear (or take notice of) the ground invasion when it started. When I posted, I thought the initial bombardment only was still continuing with only a few little "sneak" ventures into Gaza with soldiers. 

 

It doesn't even matter if it was two day or a week ago, Israel's ground move was on for much longer than that, and featured on all major news outlets, including the CNN which you claim to watch. There is no way you could have missed that if paying even a little bit of attention. Since you claim you did miss it, it does raise questions as to the rest of your comments, and your ability to follow events or Interpret them.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

But, it is how I describe them, and will continue to do so... 

 

So you are bent on intentionally using a wrong, misleading term?

[WDSmart]

30 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It doesn't even matter if it was two day or a week ago, Israel's ground move was on for much longer than that, and featured on all major news outlets, including the CNN which you claim to watch. There is no way you could have missed that if paying even a little bit of attention. Since you claim you did miss it, it does raise questions as to the rest of your comments, and your ability to follow events or Interpret them.

I missed it because the situation in Israel/Gaza is not my primary concern right now. I'm busy doing many other things around my house, my properties, and also playing golf twice a week. I don't just sit in front of the TV and watch CNN. So, when I do, I see "snippets," and obviously did not see or notice the reports that the IDF has actually invaded with ground troops. I do remember seeing reports of them invading with tanks, but not platoons of soldiers. 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I missed it because the situation in Israel/Gaza is not my primary concern right now. I'm busy doing many other things around my house, my properties, and also playing golf twice a week. I don't just sit in front of the TV and watch CNN. So, when I do, I see "snippets," and obviously did not see or notice the reports that the IDF has actually invaded with ground troops. I do remember seeing reports of them invading with tanks, but not platoons of soldiers. 

 

Sure. You follow things, but somehow missed a massive invasion. And you're very busy - yet find the time to post on and on about it on here. This goes back to a previous comments - maybe get a clue before posting.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Morch, If you are (I was) referring to my comment that the Zionist factions in Israel are moving forward to entirely take over Palestine, I mean they are proceeding as fast as they can without losing the support of their allies, like my country, the USA, who are already telling them to ease off a little. (According to the conspiracy-filled sources I listen to, like CNN ) 

 

   No, the IDF have gone into Gaza to deal with Hamas terrorists and to bring then to justice and to free the hostages .

    Israel will not be staying in Gaza after the war 

[Rimmer]

A couple of off topic posts removed

Please see our Community Standards

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No, the IDF have gone into Gaza to deal with Hamas terrorists and to bring then to justice and to free the hostages .

    Israel will not be staying in Gaza after the war 

I hope that is what will happen, but I don't think it is. I believe Israel will remain in control of Gaza from now on, and eventually, way down the road, just assimilate it into Israel the way they've done with all the other Palestinian land. We'll both just have to wait and see what happens. 

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

Have you altered any lines on that map, like you altered the Dictionary definition ?

Are those red pen lines your red pen lines ? 

I have not altered or added any lines on this map. I did add a remark at the end of a dictionary definition I posted, but I stated that before the quote, and I [put my addition in brackets] just as I said I would. Also, that addition did not change the definition. 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I have not altered or added any lines on this map. I did add a remark at the end of a dictionary definition I posted, but I stated that before the quote, and I [put my addition in brackets] just as I said I would. Also, that addition did not change the definition. 

 

 

  We have been asked to stop posting about history and giving history lessons  , so I will not comment on the map , as I was going to mention that Judea is a Hebrew name which means Israel .

   Lets get back  on topic about the current war in Gaza

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

  We have been asked to stop posting about history and giving history lessons  , so I will not comment on the map , as I was going to mention that Judea is a Hebrew name which means Israel .

   Lets get back  on topic about the current war in Gaza

I don't know how we can properly discuss the war in Gaza without referring to history. How far can we go back? Can we mention the Oct 7th Hamas attack, or is that too far back in "history" now? IMO, the history of this conflict is what is most important in fully understanding the motives, tactics, strategies, and goals of both sides.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I don't know how we can properly discuss the war in Gaza without referring to history. How far can we go back? Can we mention the Oct 7th Hamas attack, or is that too far back in "history" now? IMO, the history of this conflict is what is most important in fully understanding the motives, tactics, strategies, and goals of both sides.

This war in Gaza did not just start Oct 7. The current version started over 100 years ago, and one could even argue that the overall conflict is believed by many, namely the Jews and Christians, to have started over 3,000 years ago.

 

   No, this current war started in Oct 7 th when Hamas invaded Israel .

Although various groups through history  have been trying to take the land away from Jews , going back 1000's of years .

  The Palestinians are just the lasted group of people trying to take the land away from the Jews 

[Bkk Brian]

So, I hope you will agree with me that the HISTORY of this conflict is very important and pertinent, and this whole issue was not started by Hamas on 7 Oct.

 

Again, there is no justification for what happened on the 7th Oct whether it happened in a vacuum or not, this war started then and not before, the UN in this topic is referring to this war from the 7th Oct and not before.

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

So, I hope you will agree with me that the HISTORY of this conflict is very important and pertinent, and this whole issue was not started by Hamas on 7 Oct.

 

Again, there is no justification for what happened on the 7th Oct whether it happened in a vacuum or not, this war started then and not before, the UN in this topic is referring to this war from the 7th Oct and not before.

Horrific murders, evidence of the rape of women and girls, subhuman conditions in the captivity of Hamas - nothing shakes the UN from its indifference towards Israel. The lax and disapproving responses provided by the UN since October 7 oblige Israel to change its conduct towards the organisation..

All the masks have fallen. The weak and hypocritical reaction of the United Nations organisations to the murderous attack by Hamas on October 7 symbolises one of the deepest moments of moral depression for the organisation since its foundation in 1945. It obliges Israel to change its strategy towards the organisation that claims to make peace between nations, and to see All human beings are equal.
The acts of horror perpetrated by the Hamas murderers are indescribable. A horrific genocide was committed innocent people, which was accompanied by one of the largest mass kidnappings in modern times, including of infants in the cradle. Not one of the abductees was visited by the Red Cross. What did the United Nations do in the face of the horror This inhumanity? Not much. In fact, from a nation. The conduct of the UN since October 7th is a disgrace and a stain that will not be erased.

 

The biggest disappointment came from the UN Women's Agency. How do you think the UN WOMEN organisation responded in the face of dozens of testimonies of rape, accompanied by horrific torture and murder? Well, it did not. For 50 days, the UN Women Organisation, under the direction of Dr. Sima Bachos, all in order not to stand up for the victims - unfortunate Israeli women who fell prey to Hamas brutality.

Evidence of the murder of women, photographs of the kidnapping of women with cuffs and bleeding between their legs, none of this interested Mrs. Bachos, a Jordanian by origin. Only on December 1st, Almost two months after the slaughter and rape, and after heavy pressure from dozens of women's organisations around the world, only then did Bachos "agree" to publish a condemnation of sexual violence by Hamas against Israeli women on October 

Also the UN special rapporteur on gender violence, Mrs. Rim Al - Salem, also of Jordanian descent, was not particularly shocked by dozens of reports of the atrocities. Four days after the massacre, on October 11, al-Salem was quick to publish a hypocritical tweet that said "reports of crimes should not be believed until they are investigated." ME TOO? Not if you are an Israeli and Jewish woman. In this case, your pain is of no interest to the special envoy from the UN. She believes every woman who reports rape, but Israeli and Jewish women - no.

 These two senior women, who receive their salary from the United Nations, exceeded their position, betrayed the trust that women around the world placed in them, and they must not continue to serve in this important position for even one more day. Instead of standing by the side of the women who were tortured, raped, murdered and kidnapped, they aligned themselves with The wave of hostility in the Arab world against Israel. Israel demands that both of them terminate their duties immediately.

The United Nations children's organisation, UNICEF, also caused enormous disappointment among those who expected fair treatment and humanity. 39 Israeli children were violently abducted to Gaza on October 7, some of them witnessed horrific atrocities. A 4-year-old girl was taken captive all alone, after her parents were murdered in front of her eyes. Some of the young children were separated from their parents in captivity and were victims of psychological terror, such as forced viewing of horror videos of murder and burned people. Children, women and men, are kept in subhuman conditions in basements and suffer from hunger, lack of medicine and poor hygiene conditions.

Recently released abductees testify that they have not bathed for 50 days. They all lost weight. Did you think that UNICEF would issue a call for the immediate release of abducted Israeli children, for example on International Children's Day on November 20? Nothing like that happened. The Executive Director of UNICEF, Catherine Russell, visited Gaza but cancelled her parallel visit to Israel, which was supposed to include a meeting with the families of the abducted children. A new date for Russell's visit to Israel has not been set until this moment. Almost two months after the great slaughter, UNICEF only announced on the 6 December A tepid and laconic condemnation notice, without specifically mentioning Hamas. Shame.

 

The saddest thing, perhaps, is the equanimity shown by the UN Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, towards the Israeli suffering. The Secretary-General did indeed condemn the terrorist attack, using minimal language, when he insisted on adding the significant word - "but" to every sentence. Innocent people, including children and mothers. Instead of clearly and unequivocally blaming the aggressor, Guterres implied that the victims were to blame for their death.

Compared to the lean and dry language in which he talks about the victims on the Israeli side, Guterres uses exuberant and emotional language when he talks, for example, about a Palestinian ambulance that was damaged: "I am shocked , the images of the bodies thrown in the street are horrible." Nothing is accidental. One can only learn from this that the images of hundreds of young Israelis, half of them women, lying dead and tortured on the ground after the mass slaughter in southern Israel were much less shocking to him...

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All we need to know is that the Camp David and every other American initiative has failed to resolve the situation, and not just failed, but failed abysmally. Had they succeeded the October 7 attack would not have happened.

 

Blame the US if you must, but  can you tell me what peace  initiatives have been proposed by Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Qatar, Jordan and Syria; all administrations that would have more sway over Palestinian representatives ?

 

Reports say the Camp David initiative got close until Yasser Arafat walked away. He later complimented Clinton by telling him "You are a great man” Clinton responded, "I am not a great man. I am a failure, and you made me one."

[Eloquent pilgrim]

18 hours ago, bradiston said:

Oh take a rxxxxxx jump. It was 23 years ago as I've already pointed out. And this form of belittling is called gaslighting. It's reportable but I'm not going to bother.

 

I hadn’t mention Bill Clinton at all; you’re the one that brought him into the conversation, criticising him for as you put it, not lifting a finger towards solving the Palestinian problem. Then after I inform you about the Camp David Conference, you are suddenly rude to me and want to dismiss Clinton’s efforts because they were 23 years ago. I have never been a fan of Clinton, but he put in a lot of work (the conference spanned 2 weeks) so to say he never lifted a finger to help, again shows your overall lack of knowledge on this whole issue.

 

Furnishing you with knowledge that you previously did not have is not gaslighting or bullying, it is edification.

[Thorgal]

40 minutes ago, ezzra said:

 

The biggest disappointment came from the UN Women's Agency. How do you think the UN WOMEN organisation responded in the face of dozens of testimonies of rape, accompanied by horrific torture and murder? Well, it did not. For 50 days, the UN Women Organisation, under the direction of Dr. Sima Bachos, all in order not to stand up for the victims - unfortunate Israeli women who fell prey to Hamas brutality.

 

 

I think that the UN Women Organization doesn't work only on testimonies to be conclusive.

 

They (UN) have to investigate with forensic proof and later on prosecute.

 

Quote from source :

https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/

 

"But in the wake of the unprecedentedly large mass-casualty event, physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities amid their ongoing scramble to identify the people killed, many of whose bodies were mutilated and burned."

 

Quote from source:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/17/world/israel-investigates-sexual-violence-hamas/index.html

 

"Police Superintendent Dudi Katz said officers have collected more than 1,000 statements and more than 60,000 video clips related to the attacks that include accounts from people who reported seeing women raped. He added that investigators do not have firsthand testimony, and it is not clear whether any rape victims survived."

 

 

Question is : Were they (UN) allowed to collect forensic proof in Israel by independent UN investigators?

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

I think that the UN Women Organization doesn't work only on testimonies to be conclusive.

 

They (UN) have to investigate with forensic proof and later on prosecute.

 

Quote from source :

https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/

 

"But in the wake of the unprecedentedly large mass-casualty event, physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities amid their ongoing scramble to identify the people killed, many of whose bodies were mutilated and burned."

 

Quote from source:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/17/world/israel-investigates-sexual-violence-hamas/index.html

 

"Police Superintendent Dudi Katz said officers have collected more than 1,000 statements and more than 60,000 video clips related to the attacks that include accounts from people who reported seeing women raped. He added that investigators do not have firsthand testimony, and it is not clear whether any rape victims survived."

 

 

Question is : Were they (UN) allowed to collect forensic proof in Israel by independent UN investigators?

 

 

Israel presses U.N. to investigate charges of sexual violence by Hamas fighters Israeli officials have accused international groups, including the United Nations, of ignoring what it describes as evidence of rape and sexual violence by Hamas fighters during the Oct. 7 attacks

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217668564/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence-oct-7#:~:text=Embedded-,Israel presses U.N. to investigate charges of sexual violence by,during the Oct. 7 attacks.

[Thorgal]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yawn:

 

Israel presses U.N. to investigate charges of sexual violence by Hamas fighters Israeli officials have accused international groups, including the United Nations, of ignoring what it describes as evidence of rape and sexual violence by Hamas fighters during the Oct. 7 attacks

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217668564/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence-oct-7#:~:text=Embedded-,Israel presses U.N. to investigate charges of sexual violence by,during the Oct. 7 attacks.

 

You just confirmed my point :

 

Medical rescue workers (volunteers) and/or first aid responders have no competence to treat forensic evidence and were never trained to be conclusive in criminal cases.

 

As I've said, it had to be done by independent UN investigators if Israeli police (CSI) didn't do it.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

You just confirmed my point :

 

Medical rescue workers (volunteers) and/or first aid responders have no competence to treat forensic evidence and were never trained to be conclusive in criminal cases.

 

As I've said, it had to be done by independent UN investigators if Israeli police (CSI) didn't do it.

You never made a point, you did ask a question however:

 

Question is : Were they (UN) allowed to collect forensic proof in Israel by independent UN investigators?

 

I answered it, the UN has been urged to investigate, it has already been shown the video evidence, it is now up to them to proceed:

 

The UN meeting, attended by about 800 people including diplomats from dozens of countries, watched videos from police interviews with first responders who described genital mutilation and shooting at breasts. A survivor of the attack on the Supernova rave described witnessing a gang-rape.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/05/un-hears-accounts-of-sexual-violence-during-7-october-attacks-by-hamas

[Thorgal]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You never made a point, you did ask a question however:

 

Question is : Were they (UN) allowed to collect forensic proof in Israel by independent UN investigators?

 

I answered it, the UN has been urged to investigate, it has already been shown the video evidence, it is now up to them to proceed:

 

The UN meeting, attended by about 800 people including diplomats from dozens of countries, watched videos from police interviews with first responders who described genital mutilation and shooting at breasts. A survivor of the attack on the Supernova rave described witnessing a gang-rape.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/05/un-hears-accounts-of-sexual-violence-during-7-october-attacks-by-hamas

 

Again from my previous post : "I think that the UN Women Organization doesn't work only on testimonies to be conclusive."

 

Forensic investigation and testimonies are not the same.

 

Enough for today to reply to you. Cheers.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Thorgal