New experience at Suvarnabhumi Immigration

[jimn]

23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, I live upcountry.

 

The only agents in my province handle just migrant worker visas. Can't fund any that would handle my retirement extensions and can;t find any agents elsewhere willing to come out here, even for a fee.

 

 

I understand. I was going to say come to Pattaya for a few days to get it done, but thats as bad as an agent where you live doing an out of area extension.

[jimn]

17 hours ago, Sigma6 said:

 

Which card would that be?

As another poster pointed out therr are many. Personally I have The Halifax Clarity Card and the Barclaycard Reward Card. Both give an excellent exchange rate following the Mastercard or Visa rate. Free ATM withdrawals, plus many other benefits. I use one all the time and the other as a standby. Pay the bill once a month from my UK bank account. Before you say it, there is no chance of account closure. I have a UK home and stay there 4 months a year. I keep as little money in Thailand as possible. Anyone who keeps 800k locked in a Thai bank account either have no choice or are misguided.

Edited December 15, 2023 by jimn

[jimn]

16 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Each to their own, but have personally always done it by the book... what I may lose on interest by not having it in a foreign bank is of little interest (pardon pun) to me since I prefer the peace of mind. My extension takes me about an hour, including copying etc. If they clamp down on anything, it will be the visa shenanigans/discrepancies first as highlighted in the OP.

For me its not wanting to keep any more than I need to spend or pay bills in my Thai accounts. I prefer to use the UK as my banking base. There is not a chance in hell that they will stop agent arranged extensions. They are agreed from the very top of the immigration tree. My extension is signed by the same senior officer who signs all the extensions. My agent obtained extension is perfectly legal and has no special code alongside the stamp to indicate otherwise.

[NanLaew]

On 12/13/2023 at 9:06 PM, expat_4_life said:

Wonder why the OP got questioned in the manner he did - was it something about their renewal stamp (originating office), something in the computer or?  Makes me think the IO's are aware somehow.

 

Their computer shows an extension issued by an up-country immigration office but, when asked, the extension holder stated a Bangkok address.

 

If asked by immigration on arrival what your address is, give an address that's within the jurisdiction of the immigration office that issued the extension.

[mancub]

15 hours ago, NextG said:

There are many. If you are British you would  likely know. 

Enlighten us with one which is comparable to Wise please.

[Wuvu2]

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

Did you notice that the baht appreciated quite a bit against, let's say, the pound during the last 20+ years?

It has not been a bad investment to buy baht.

Well, I'm not sure what 20 years has to do with the 800k yearly deposit for a visa, but your math is incorrect. The Thai baht has actually been a terrible investment over the last 20 years. The S&P index is up about 450% in the last 20 years.  A dollar invested in the Thai Baht is only up about 10% over the same 20 years. There are good reasons that some folks like to hold the 800k in the bank - because it's a good forex investment isn't one of them.   

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, jimn said:

They are agreed from the very top of the immigration tree.

 

They are not. They are a lower-level corruption that only becomes an issue to "upper management" when someone makes an inordinate fuss about it. The last chief of immigration who made an inordinate fuss about it found himself sidelined for a few years and since then, he's been kept well way from this particular gravy train.

 

It's more of a turning a blind eye situation.

[mancub]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

 

They are not. They are a lower-level corruption that only becomes an issue to "upper management" when someone makes an inordinate fuss about it. The last chief of immigration who made an inordinate fuss about it found himself sidelined for a few years and since then, he's been kept well way from this particular gravy train.

 

It's more of a turning a blind eye situation.

Agree. but am waiting for the knee jerking that would follow any high profile crime/terrorist act that might happen with the discovery that the perp was using such "agent services" to be in the Kingdom.

[Olmate]

9 minutes ago, mancub said:

Agree. but am waiting for the knee jerking that would follow any high profile crime/terrorist act that might happen with the discovery that the perp was using such "agent services" to be in the Kingdom.

 Nah.. Those terrorists always use the 800k method!! 😂

[ezzra]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, Mark17AA said:

I pleaded ignorance

My favourite way to live lately, I know nothing...

[ezzra]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, Mark17AA said:

I pleaded ignorance

My favourite way to live lately, I know nothing...

[ezzra]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, Mark17AA said:

I pleaded ignorance

My favourite way to live lately, I know nothing...

[ezzra]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, Mark17AA said:

I pleaded ignorance

My favourite way to live lately, I know nothing...

[ezzra]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, Mark17AA said:

I pleaded ignorance

My favourite way to live lately, I know nothing...

[Mark17AA]

Let me be clear about my post - I use an agent purly that I can't be arsed to go to the immigration office myself.. my choice!

 

Next, I have the funds so that is not the issue.. my post was meant to highlight that its a point to be aware of, as in my 15 years here its the first time that this has come up.. having spoken to my agent they have said never before has this been an issue.

 

As I mentioned there is no issue until I need to make the renewal which needs to be done at the local office, as for the 90 day report I'm in and out the country quite regularly and in the old days would do the TM30 with my BKK address no questions were asked.

 

My post was a heads up to others whom might come unstuck with it... TBH I wish I had not bothered.

[mancub]

More of a concern is the malpractice carried out by those banks who willing falsify accounts

[Dan O]

18 hours ago, Wuvu2 said:

Simple math. Agents charge about 12,500/year, which is 1.6% of 800,000.  Thai banks pay almost no interest, and most of us can make a bunch more than 1.6% on our investments in our home country. Using an agent in the province where you live has been the best practice for as long as I can remember to avoid the problem the OP encountered. Nothing new here. 

most agents charge more than that but if you can get it at that price thats great. If you use an agent with them supplying the financial details that's actually illegal but accepted by many if your not caught out on it.

 

Your info on interest etc is a typical excuse and used by many especially agents to justify using them. If you do the math on the cost of the agent fee compared to the interest you make on 1 year of 800k invested elsewhere it's not much money at all. 

 

its far easier and cost effective to put your 800k in the bank for the first permission of stay extension and at the same time transfer 65k (if retired vs married ) every month since you need money to live on each month anyway. After the first year you convert over to the monthly method as you can both take your 800k back out and you can also spend every baht of the 65k each month without any issue.

 

This also saves you the agent fee every year in the future and avoids getting caught out with any other issues.  If you dont want the hassel of going to file the paperwork but have all the financial yourself and its just a matter of filing that's a different issue altogether (and far cheaper) as many older expats arent in the best of health.

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, mancub said:

More of a concern is the malpractice carried out by those banks who willing falsify accounts

And all the standard answers as to why this all 'perfectly legal' may change if/when the Revenue folks enter the equation.

[Olmate]

23 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And all the standard answers as to why this all 'perfectly legal' may change if/when the Revenue folks enter the equation.

Why? Money is not foreign, merely loaned short term.

[Olmate]

29 minutes ago, mancub said:

More of a concern is the malpractice carried out by those banks who willing falsify accounts

You fishing again? no false accounting, money is deposited, later withdrawn.

[Grusa]

16 hours ago, Wuvu2 said:

Well, I could be hit by falling space debris too, but I choose not to worry about it.

Have you ever heard of anyone who faced jail, deportation, fines, or blacklisting when their only misdeed was using an agent in this way? No, I haven't either 

To which I can only say

 

............yet!

[NextG]

2 hours ago, mancub said:

Enlighten us with one which is comparable to Wise please.

Wise is a debit card and inferior to the credit cards aforementioned. But best you ask the person who mentioned using their CC in the first place, as it’s already off-topic. 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Mark17AA said:

 

My post was a heads up to others whom might come unstuck with it... TBH I wish I had not bothered

 

Some of us thank you for the heads up, myself included.

[Andre0720]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

I think computer would show where the renewal was done, might also show address from 90 reports.

 

On top of not matching where OP said he was going to stay, I think it is common knowledge among IOs which provinces are "Facilitating" agent extensions.

 

Of course for those using an agent to extend at their (correct) Imm office, nothing on computer would look out of place.  But that is possible in only a few locations.

 

The main reason I have never used an agent is that I cannot find any that would handle the extension at my local IO....and I want to avoid exactly the sort of issue mentioned here (not to mention, how to do 90 day reports?). I meet the financials , no issue there, but I would dearly love to not have to deal with my very rude and difficult IO directly and would gladly pay extra not to have to. But there are no agents for retirement extensions in my province  and all the ones I have contacted would do the extension at some remote location nowhere near where I live.

Well yes, in this land, situations are mostly related to money and territory.

 

I am located in Phuket, and there are many Agents who offer a service of dealing with an IO on a customer behalf, for a fee. And this fee is shared between the Agent, and at a very high level at the IO, then further shared...

And strangely, some of the Agents are able to conduct their business directly with the local IO, while others go through a remote IO, such as Nakhon Sawan. Now why is that, I have no idea. Appears like Agents must be 'accredited' for the use of such a service at a given IO.

And those Agents who appear to not be able to be accredited locally here, are always able to find a remote IO that is willing to offer such a service to Agents.

But the consequence of getting a 'retirement extension' from a remote location, would mean that the IO doing a 90 day for example, would be required to do that 'free' work, while knowing very well that a non-local IO got a share of the money for the initial 'extension' work. Not happy with that.

So some Agents who deal with a non-local IO, for whatever reason, will offer a free service of obtaining all 90 day reports from the IO that was used to obtain the 'retirement visa'. This of course would entail having to send the passport again and again through mail to obtain the 90 day stamps.

Something that of course anyone would like to avoid. An IO can tell what process was originally used to obtain a service, through a quick glance at the passport. That is what they do for a living. A few seconds will do it...

 

And to add to the complexity of this situation, once a foreigner has used an Agent, the IO will try as they can to keep this individual to keep on putting money in the system. Lots of money in there. Trying to do further 'retirement extensions' on your own, at the lower fee of course, will get you to be faced with all sorts of problems, being raised by the IO, to make the process as long and difficult as possible. With the aim of breaking you down and getting you back at an Agent's office, and paying the bigger fee. If one is intent on not paying for an Agent, make sure that your income taxes are in order in your country, make sure that your embassy will offer a service of confirming your income, and accept to be patient time and time again when you are told that "Oh, the for that you used is an out-dated one. Use this one, and come back some other day.....

 

I was initially forced to go see an Agent, after the onset of the Covid era, with airport closed here, borders of neighboring countries closed, so not being able to leave the country to extend my OA visa, and not being able to stay in the country, as my visa would soon expire. 2019, 2020.

When I explained that at the IO, I was told that there was nothing that they could do. The law was written this way.

Then I was told in a whisper, go see an Agent, they will fix it up for you.

And Agent, Oh yes.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Why? Money is not foreign, merely loaned short term.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Why? Money is not foreign, merely loaned short term.

That's not what the refs call for both at the beginning in applying, during the year or prior to the next renewal. 

[ChaiyaTH]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:34 PM, ukrules said:

 

I would not be surprised, it's the next logical thing to crack down on.

 

Anyone going this agent route is 'making their own card' for potential future issues.

Nearly everyone I know who lives here in Hua Hin uses an agent except for that one guy with PR, I don't know why as most of these people (but not all of them) do actually have the money, they just don't seem to want to put it in a Thai bank.

Lolll. More like the opposite, they are desperate already. It is going to be more corrupt and easier again. It already is in the south anyway.

 

[Dan O]

26 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Lolll. More like the opposite, they are desperate already. It is going to be more corrupt and easier again. It already is in the south anyway.

 

I disagree, it'll become more difficult in the future as banking regs continue to tighten and come more in line with the rest of the world. Its already significantly harder to open your initial accounts to start the process. Sure you can get an agent to open an acct but thats already starting to dry up due to the grey market and mule account issues. They have to address the electronic scamming and add more oversight to do that and with the new version of taxation coming on line it will become more difficult for the banking industry to provide falsified documentation.  Its no easier in the south than anywhere else. 

 

If that option dries up people using agents to cover the lack of funds better be prepared to preload their accts with cash or face starting over from scratch at renewal time. 

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

That's not what the refs call for both at the beginning in applying, during the year or prior to the next renewal. 

Is this beginners day on  agent extension topics. I take it your banking/tax references are just as lame.

[jimn]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

They are not. They are a lower-level corruption that only becomes an issue to "upper management" when someone makes an inordinate fuss about it. The last chief of immigration who made an inordinate fuss about it found himself sidelined for a few years and since then, he's been kept well way from this particular gravy train.

 

It's more of a turning a blind eye situation.

Big Joke tried and failed thats why he was sidelined thats why it goes all the way to the top. In the main I am talking about the individual offices. It is not a low level officer signing the extensions it is the senior officer. Granted yes it is corruption and yes they make a lot of money off of it. Corruption is an acceptable way of life over here, you should know that. From planning permission, to road building, everyone is at it.