You can't get a good pizza

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

I have argued at length why you can't.

 

Your opinion is not fact.

[kwilco]

28 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Your opinion is not fact.

I think a comment like that shows you really don't understand how to make a point. I very much doubt if you can separate, opinion from evidence from fact and work out how they should be applied to an argument.

[kwilco]

I should re-iterate why you CAN"t get pizza that's any good as a pizza outside italy - 

I find that most people here are quite happy to eat "ultra-processed foods" oblivious to what that does to your diet

 

and it isn't just pizza, it’s all Italian food - Italian food encompasses a vast range of culinary traditions from different regions, each with its own unique flavours and ingredients. In typical Italian tradition, Pizza is a regional dish. (it also goes for many foods served outside their native country or region.

 

It isn't because you "like the taste" - if you had a real pizza and you're used to ultra-processed foods you might not like it - it is all about how to make a proepr one not some bastrardised version for mass production or by a chef with no real ingredients

These are some reasons why you will find differences in Italian food outside of Italy:

 

The ingredients. Freshness and quality: Italy has a strong emphasis on using the freshest, seasonal ingredients. Outside of Italy, it is usually impossible to access the same quality and variety of produce, especially the regional varieties and specialties.

(Similarly, I usually buy chillies in Thailand to take back to UK family restaurant as they have quite a different taste from the chillies usually available in UK which come from India.)

Certain ingredients are just not readily available and are substituted with inferior versions, leading to a different taste profile. Even the most diligent “competent” chef can’t avoid this.

 

Italy has farming that often differ from those in other countries, resulting in variations in flavours and texture of ingredients that may look identical – even though they are genetically different.

Italian cooking techniques and traditions don’t travel – chefs take short cut or “innovate” or “improve” – to the cost of authenticity. This is often dictated by availability and economics

 

Most  restaurants outside of Italy don’t traditional techniques and recipes. They adapt dishes to suit local tastes or use shortcuts, which can alter the flavour.

They lack skill and knowledge. Even if they are of Italian decent, it is still necessary to master traditional Italian cooking and this takes time and the experience of mentors. Cooks outside Italy simply don’t have the same level of expertise, leading to variations in execution.

The way food is prepared and presented in Italy is often connected to specific cultural rituals and traditions. Recreating those aspects outside of Italy can prove impossible, impacting the overall experience.

What we expect is often erroneous. What we consider to be "Italian food" outside of Italy is often influenced by stereotypes - popular restaurants and media misrepresentations, which are inaccurate reproductions of the diverse culinary landscape of Italy.

 

Taste is of course subjective, and what one person finds delicious, another might find uninspiring – or they may not have ever tasted Italian food in Italy. I personally don’t mind eating things called “pizza” from other parts of the world – (but then my nick name is “dustbin”) – but they are not real Italian pizzas as anyone from Italy will know. I’m sure conversely you will be able to find bad pizzas in Italy – especially in the most touristic areas.

 

Italian food has constantly evolved throughout history, influenced by regional variations and external factors. So, even "authentic" Italian food can look and taste different depending on the specific region and time period. But it still won’t travel outside the country.

 

Ultimately, the best way to appreciate Italian food is to keep an open mind and try dishes from different regions and restaurants, both inside and outside of Italy.  Then you’ll realise that Italian food just doesn’t travel outside Italy

[Trippy]

49 minutes ago, kwilco said:

this showseverything that has gone wrong with pizzas outside Italy - looks like vomit on a slic of bread.

That's the best pizza in the world, I don't give a cr*p what they serve in Italy.

[kwilco]

12 minutes ago, Trippy said:

That's the best pizza in the world, I don't give a cr*p what they serve in Italy.

THat's like looking a Cadillac and saying it's the Rolls-Royce of cars.

[georgegeorgia]

Just watching the latest YouTube video from a famous Pattaya YouTuber (GC)  on .....how he had trouble ordering a .... Hawaiian pizza in Naklua !

 

I think he must of read this thread and started a YouTube video on Hawaiian pizza in Pattaya !🤣

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

That may be delicious - but it isn't a pizza.

Terminal literalness is a scourge of humanity.

It is a pizza.

It's a regional variation of pizza.

Italy has regional variations of pizza.

Other countries do as well. 

 

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

THat's like looking a Cadillac and saying it's the Rolls-Royce of cars.

Maybe in Cloud Cuckooland it is.

In the real world, it's one person loving a regional variation of pizza about all others he's tried.

 

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

I think a comment like that shows you really don't understand how to make a point. I very much doubt if you can separate, opinion from evidence from fact and work out how they should be applied to an argument.

 

I have posted evidence of a business that sells very decent pizza made in a woodfire oven by an Italian chef using imported ingredients that are not readily available in Thailand.

You choose to  ignore this so thats a you issue, not a me issue.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

I have posted evidence of a business that sells very decent pizza made in a woodfire oven by an Italian chef using imported ingredients that are not readily available in Thailand.

You choose to  ignore this so thats a you issue, not a me issue.

I guess he would say it's impossible for that to be 100 percent the same as in Italy, which I suppose is true, but who the heck gives a flyin' puck?

 

[Ralf001]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I guess he would say it's impossible for that to be 100 percent the same as in Italy, which I suppose is true, but who the heck gives a flyin' puck?

 

 

He'll come back claiming it is not "Italian" pizza as the owner is from Sicily as well as the Chef.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

He'll come back claiming it is not "Italian" pizza as the owner is from Sicily as well as the Chef.

His way of thinking about food is so incredibly passe.

Food is global, now more than ever.

[NextG]

20 hours ago, kwilco said:

I have argued at length why you can't.

Actually you can, because food is often just a matter of taste. What you might mean is that you cannot get exactly the same taste and quality that you might get in Napoli(for example). With that I agree, as I haven’t had anything here even come close. 
But that doesn’t mean that you cannot get tasty food elsewhere. Not everyone will have tried an optimal example in Napoli, so anything of a decent quality would be good enough. 

For me, as long as each stage/component is of good quality, happiness can be attained. There are ways of improving your chances of a half decent pizza. 
But when a poor quality of ingredient is utilised, such as local reformed ham or vegetables not properly prepared etc it’s going to be hard to be impressed. In fact I just won’t eat it. 


 

[Jingthing]

An Italian dish outside Italy will be different to some degree either a miniscule difference or majorly, but that doesn't necessarily make the "foreign" dish inferior. In some cases it can be superior.

 

Being perfectly "authentic" which is a can of worms word to begin with is not the only factor that food can fairly be judged by.

[noobexpat]

How do you know if someone in a pizza thread has been to italy?

 

They can't stop telling you. Over and over and over... 

 

 

[noobexpat]

Rate my pizza!

Where in pattaya?

As good as anything in italy...

 

 

[Albaby]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:03 PM, proton said:

Wine connection better than a lot of the muck you get in Italy, lunch special till 2PM- salad, drink, pizza or pasta under 300 baht! Went yesterday.

More expensive, but the chorizo and truffle, yum.

[Albaby]

On 1/2/2024 at 4:16 PM, kwilco said:

Which crust?

The crust on his old fella. He's in the wrong thread.

[proton]

55 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

How do you know if someone in a pizza thread has been to italy?

 

They can't stop telling you. Over and over and over... 

 

 

 

I went in Sept Rome and the crap hole Naples, the Pizza's were poor, hope that helps

[Walker88]

This is pretty good for Thailand:

[KhunHeineken]

Not getting into the argument if a good pizza can be had in Thailand or not, but we all know the ridiculous price of cheese in Thailand, and I think this is the reason many places do not do a nice pizza, because cheese is one of the main ingredients to a decent pizza. 

[georgegeorgia]

16 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Not getting into the argument if a good pizza can be had in Thailand or not, but we all know the ridiculous price of cheese in Thailand, and I think this is the reason many places do not do a nice pizza, because cheese is one of the main ingredients to a decent pizza. 

Now you hit on a good point,the cheese !

The cheese is what makes a good pizza ,the pizza I had NY pizza 3rd road ,it was the cheese that made it not the best

I have no idea what the BEST CHEESE is for a pizza but it has to be tasty not that rubbish they gave me 😭

[Walker88]

29 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Now you hit on a good point,the cheese !

The cheese is what makes a good pizza ,the pizza I had NY pizza 3rd road ,it was the cheese that made it not the best

I have no idea what the BEST CHEESE is for a pizza but it has to be tasty not that rubbish they gave me 😭

There's some decent regular mozzarella available that some pizza restaurants seem to use, and there definitely is one good Bangkok-based company that makes Buffalo Mozzarella. I see their truck sometimes delivering to restaurants. The name is Antica Luna, and they also sell through some retail outlets. They import buffalo milk from Italy.

[Jingthing]

Cheese? Schmeese.

The CRUST is a must!

 

Types of Pizza Crusts: Learn About The Many Delicious Options (pizzaneed.com)

 

WHY IS THE CRUST SO IMPORTANT?

The reason is simple: the crust lays the foundation for all great pizzas. Without crust, we’d be left with an assortment of cheese, sauce, and toppings that would be more recognizable as leftover lasagna than pizza! This is an exaggeration, and cheese and toppings are delicious by themselves. Still, the point is that a crust ultimately makes a pizza work and gives its toppings their purposes. A pizza without a crust is like a car without wheels, or more appropriately, like a glass of water without a glass.

[KhunHeineken]

53 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Now you hit on a good point,the cheese !

The cheese is what makes a good pizza ,the pizza I had NY pizza 3rd road ,it was the cheese that made it not the best

I have no idea what the BEST CHEESE is for a pizza but it has to be tasty not that rubbish they gave me 😭

If they were to use fully imported cheese, the price point of the pizza would be more expensive than what tourists can get back home, so they use the cheapest cheese, hence, the title of this thread. 

 

This happens to protect Thailand's dairy industry. 

[georgegeorgia]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Cheese? Schmeese.

The CRUST is a must!

 

Types of Pizza Crusts: Learn About The Many Delicious Options (pizzaneed.com)

 

WHY IS THE CRUST SO IMPORTANT?

The reason is simple: the crust lays the foundation for all great pizzas. Without crust, we’d be left with an assortment of cheese, sauce, and toppings that would be more recognizable as leftover lasagna than pizza! This is an exaggeration, and cheese and toppings are delicious by themselves. Still, the point is that a crust ultimately makes a pizza work and gives its toppings their purposes. A pizza without a crust is like a car without wheels, or more appropriately, like a glass of water without a glass.

Very true too

I was ordering from Dominoes last week, they asked on the app ,do I want thick crust or thin crust 

I decided to have one of each with Hawaiian pizza 

The result ?

To me the THIN crust tasted the best with HAWAIIAN pizza 🍕, absolutely yummy 😋

[GypsyT]

Who has cheapest PIZZA?

 

There's one pizzeria in Jomtien who sells for 130THB. Haven't tried it. Saw the price on window. It's next to "Jomtien Lane’s Expat Foods" close to 2nd road. Just around the corner is German bakery "Back Fabrik".

 

[NextG]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Cheese? Schmeese.

The CRUST is a must!

 

Types of Pizza Crusts: Learn About The Many Delicious Options (pizzaneed.com)

 

WHY IS THE CRUST SO IMPORTANT?

The reason is simple: the crust lays the foundation for all great pizzas. Without crust, we’d be left with an assortment of cheese, sauce, and toppings that would be more recognizable as leftover lasagna than pizza! This is an exaggeration, and cheese and toppings are delicious by themselves. Still, the point is that a crust ultimately makes a pizza work and gives its toppings their purposes. A pizza without a crust is like a car without wheels, or more appropriately, like a glass of water without a glass.

It’s just painful to see the word ‘crust’ utilised instead of base or some more appropriate description. 
A crust is the hard outer layer. So absolutely not what is being discussed. 

 

Apart from that, I don’t want an inedible, dry and tasteless hard outer layer on my pizza. Americans 🤭

North American’s poor use of language again…

[metisdead]

Off topic troll posts hijacking the topic about pizzas in other countries contravening our Community Standards have been removed.  Please remember this topic is in the Pattaya forum and is about:

 

Is there any real pizza places in Pattaya you love ?

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, NextG said:

It’s just painful to see the word ‘crust’ utilised instead of base or some more appropriate description. 
A crust is the hard outer layer. So absolutely not what is being discussed. 

 

Apart from that, I don’t want an inedible, dry and tasteless hard outer layer on my pizza. Americans 🤭

North American’s poor use of language again…

As usual you're wrong.

The word crust as in pizza crust is NOT an  Americanism. It's used widely that way in the wider Anglophone universe.

Yes you will also find the word base used sometimes in the US as well.