Court orders government to form urgent plan to address PM2.5

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Irish star said:

Bkk is 177

pattaya  159

buriram is 60 right next to Cambodia 

Surprising really, as I thought a lot of it was being blown over from burning in Cambodia.  

[Grusa]

For once, it actually might be the neighbours at fault:-

[shackleton]

It's all over the Country and has been for years 😱

Could start with the capital Bangkok as rated top Tourist destination by the travel guides 🤔

 

[BE88]

4 hours ago, Muhendis said:

What will happen after the 90 days is up and Sretha and his government have still not complied?

Nothing methinks.

 

Certainly nothing because in 90 days the pollution will decrease naturally and it will all be thanks to PM. And the theatre will continue next year.

[Aussie999]

35 minutes ago, Irish star said:

Bkk is 177

pattaya  159

buriram is 60 right next to Cambodia 

The PM, and hie monkey team, will simply say, winds blows over Buriram, and smokes goes to BKK and Pattaya... they have so many excusses, to cover their fat lazy asses... we all know no action, just words, is the only path they know.

[Sydebolle]

My little PM2.5 gizmo goes ballistic nightly in dark red colour, hovering between 165 and 195 microgrammes. 

So, once the two-coloured socks PM is finished with the North, he can draw his kind attention to the Northeast, which is equally f8"ç%"%çd. The difference is, that the Bangkokian HiSos and the dirty farang group in Thailand's Northern provinces of Mae Hong Son, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai much more often and closer than in Isan. 

There are days when the visibility is less than a few hundred metres; guess what kind of air those people - damned to live here - have to breathe ........

Despicable, to say the least, considering that all this is manmade for profitability of the selected few food mills and processors .......

A Thai way of stopping immediate neighbours is to throw out some used spray cans into the field just before they start burning down. The small explosions are then explained is "roaring ghosts" being unhappy with what they do. Works ;-) 

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

On another note, for the first time in my life I am having trouble breathing. I'm not a smoker (weed or cigarettes), and have never had any sort of respiratory disease in my life, and I'm now having problems filling my lungs. I wonder if it is the stinking smog, pollution and bad air here.

I have  asthma in Thailand and require an inhaler while I'm here (all times of years so probably allergic to something like mold). Goes away when I go home to Colorado which has a much dryer climate. Smoke season doesn't seem to affect the condition. 

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

If you take a look at FIRMS, the whole of Cambodia is on fire.

Yes good info...thx. But so will be Thailand soon enough, just like every previous year...and next year...and year after that. 

[Skeptic7]

40 minutes ago, Grusa said:

For once, it actually might be the neighbours at fault:-

Give it another month and Thailand will be aglow too. 

[mran66]

1 hour ago, Sig said:

Not that I disagree with your comparison, but I highly doubt the court that made this order is made up of culturally Lanna people. That culture has been largely wiped out by the Thai and is only existing as a remnant, although there is clearly still a difference, generally, in the population of the northern provinces, I don't think it can truly be called Lanna anymore. Over 100 years of subjugation has made vast changes. Heck, there are hardly any people who are even literate in Lanna (Kam Mueang). But, in another sense, you can hardly be said to be wrong at all, since culture changes, whether due to subjugation by a larger force or not. I just wonder which may be more accurate, that there is a Lanna culture or that there is a Thai culture with Lanna influence.

Sure, was using the term to refer to geography rather than culture. Anyway the point was that there are many ways to point to other people to blame for a problem rather than deal with a self-caused problem themselves. Part of culture throughout the country regardless of previous kingdoms or cultures I guess. 

Edited January 20 by mran66

[sungod]

33 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Yes good info...thx. But so will be Thailand soon enough, just like every previous year...and next year...and year after that. 

 

After the motor boats in the river to help push water downstream in flood season episode, I am really surprised no one has come up with the idea of giant fans to blow the smoke back to Cambodia.........

[Skeptic7]

27 minutes ago, sungod said:

 

After the motor boats in the river to help push water downstream in flood season episode, I am really surprised no one has come up with the idea of giant fans to blow the smoke back to Cambodia.........

Ha❗Right on...not to forget the "Rain Planes" when the rain-dance and praying-for-rain failed❗🤣

[Muhendis]

3 hours ago, sungod said:

Simple, smog season will have passed in 3 months time- win win for all and lots of back patting.

You are indeed quite right, however, my line of thinking was that if I failed to comply with a court order, I would probably be in contempt of court.

What would happen if the prime minister failed to comply. Would he have to go to prison?

[nglodnig]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

draw up an emergency plan within 90 days,

By which time the rain will be here - problem solved!

 

Didn't they do EXACTLYthe same last year - wait ninety days then say "crisis? What crisis?"

Edited January 20 by nglodnig

[sungod]

18 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

You are indeed quite right, however, my line of thinking was that if I failed to comply with a court order, I would probably be in contempt of court.

What would happen if the prime minister failed to comply. Would he have to go to prison?

 

I completely understand and agree with you, just saw your post as an opportunity to inject a little satire at their expense.

[puck2]

Here in Pang Mapha, Mae Hong Son Province, there is no smoke visible - at the moment. Clear blue sky, and I can see the mountains smoke free.

 

But this is normal here at this time of the year. In the past, the smoke started not before the middle of February, in the last years not before middle or to the end of March. And at the end of April, the air started to be clean again.

 

Last year I booked aleady in January a ticket to Hua Hin to escape the smoke season - as usually. The ticket was for March 21, and exactly 1 day before the smoke expandet here in our valley. This year we will leave on 23/3 to Hua Hin. Hopefully at the right time.

 

I'm very curious, if the smoke will be stopped or NOT. Then the time in  Hua hin will be a "smoke free time" or a "holiday".

[Cabradelmar]

A little less talk, a little more action, please. Truth is farmers have to burn. Many Thai farmers, especially in rural areas, lack access to modern and cost-effective equipment for land clearing (and using people or cattle to clear is slow and ineffective especially when you are trying to turnover fields to plant sooner). Burning is the inexpensive option, and saves time and resources. You want to fix that, bring your checkbook Mr. PM. But more education of poor farmers ain't gonna help one bit.

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

 

After the motor boats in the river to help push water downstream in flood season episode, I am really surprised no one has come up with the idea of giant fans to blow the smoke back to Cambodia.........

I was thinking flying helicopters upside down could work lol.

[brianthainess]

Another of Prayuth's legacy, time to take those water cannons up north.

[puck2]

43 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

You are indeed quite right, however, my line of thinking was that if I failed to comply with a court order, I would probably be in contempt of court.

What would happen if the prime minister failed to comply. Would he have to go to prison?

Thaksin was sentenced because of abuse of (economioc) power. A money problem.

 

If Shretta and his minions are not able of reducing the smoke - not by words but in  fact -  he, too, should be sentenced. The reason for this fine should not be the money, but the danger for the health of millions of people.

Edited January 20 by puck2

[Burma Bill]

6 hours ago, Muhendis said:

What will happen after the 90 days is up and Sretha and his government have still not complied?

Nothing methinks.

 It will be intereting to see after 90 days if the PM and his Government are summoned to the Chiang Mai's Administrative Court and found "guilty" for non-compliance. Will this pave the way for Anutin to become PM?

[stoner]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

 

After the motor boats in the river to help push water downstream in flood season episode, I am really surprised no one has come up with the idea of giant fans to blow the smoke back to Cambodia.........

 

you could use windmills and be fighting global warming at the same time :)

[Burma Bill]

3 hours ago, Grusa said:

For once, it actually might be the neighbours at fault:-

 

An interesting distribution, however here in Siem Reap where I live, at 1pm on 20 January 2024 it is a lovely refreshing day with sunshine and clear blue skies with no haze/smoke pollution.

[John Drake]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Or what ?

 

Perhaps the court should implement it's own plan, as the government refuses to do anything. Create its own plan and enforcement. Anybody refusing to follow court directions goes to jail, including big shots at the top of the agribusiness totem pole.

[John Drake]

4 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

A little less talk, a little more action, please. Truth is farmers have to burn. Many Thai farmers, especially in rural areas, lack access to modern and cost-effective equipment for land clearing (and using people or cattle to clear is slow and ineffective especially when you are trying to turnover fields to plant sooner). Burning is the inexpensive option, and saves time and resources. You want to fix that, bring your checkbook Mr. PM. But more education of poor farmers ain't gonna help one bit.

 

The "poor farmers" are mostly sub contracted to big agribusiness and doing the burning at their direction.

[mberbae]

What farce !!! This should have done 20 years ago.

[Srikcir]

This court order is peculiar on two counts.

 

1. Courts adjudicate lawsuits with court decisions and can direct the government to enforce its judgements. All we seem to have here is a unilateral court directive that is not apparently related (as none cited) to any prior court ruling in response to a lawsuit. There are three branches of government (aside from the question of the Thai military having extra-constitutional authority): Legislature Branch the Parliament passes/amends/terminates laws, Executive Branch (PM and Cabinet Ministers) that enforces the laws, and Courts that adjudicate complaints arising from filings from the Legislature and Executive Branches. Unlike Western Courts, private individuals in Thailand can bring lawsuits directly to the highest courts (ie., Appeals, Constitutional Court) without passing through lower court adjudication.

 

2. This court order seems conflcted as on March 30, 2023:

"The Chiang Mai Administrative Court on Thursday (March 30) rejected a lawsuit against Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-O-Cha (pic) by a group of Chiang Mai people seeking a court order to declare PM2.5 in the northern province a national disaster.  The court ruled that the situation did not warrant such a declaration and the concerned government agencies were already implementing measures to deal with the situation." (my bold emphasis)

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2023/03/30/chiang-mai-court-rejects-plea-against-prayut-over-pm25-situation

Note that the court ruled in response to a lawsuit.

 

Maybe critical information is missing from this story or the court would seemed to have exceeded its authority to order the government, especially contradicting its own previous order. If the latter, the PM conceding to the new court order would amount to concession of Executive authority. Very curious,

[Puccini]

10 hours ago, mikebell said:

I thought there was a committee formed yesterday to 'solve' this problem?...

 

I read that, too, and am now waiting for the news of the committee's recommendation and the government's decision to increase the safe level of PM 2.5 to 100 µg/m³. The current Thai limit is 50 µg/m³, I believe, whereas the WHO limit remains at 25 µg/m³.

[Grusa]

5 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 

An interesting distribution, however here in Siem Reap where I live, at 1pm on 20 January 2024 it is a lovely refreshing day with sunshine and clear blue skies with no haze/smoke pollution.

..and that is exactly what it shows! The wind is carrying it around you.... to everyone else.

[Cabradelmar]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

The "poor farmers" are mostly sub contracted to big agribusiness and doing the burning at their direction.

 

Nope. Only about 15% of Thai farmers have formal contracts with agribusinesses. Most Thai farmers are independent smallholders, owning and operating their own land (source: World Bank). The reality is far more complex, with the majority of farmers being independent smallholders. Again, these farmers choose to burn based on their own cost-benefit calculations and limited access to alternatives.