Court summons for airbnb review

[mr_lob]

Last year, a Thai group stayed in one of our villas - after check out the villa was left in a really bad state.

Appropriately, we gave him a poor review on airbnb - a simple 2 sentence statement that the villa was left very dirty and they didn't respect the place.

Now, months later, we received a court summons - the guy *who is a lawyer* accuses us of ''defamation through advertising is despised and hated.'' He said that because of our review, other hosts are not accepting his bookings.

Erm, that's the whole idea of the airbnb system!!

He is seeking damages of 300,000 baht. Yes, you read that right, 300k. For a 2 night stay which we got 10k and a filthy villa from.

 

Welcome any comments from anyone who has been in a similar situation!

 

Thanks guys

[nikmar]

im not a solicitor and Ive never been in a similar position - but did you take photos of the villa afer he left?

[Kinnock]

The Thai defamation law is archaic and the facts of the original issue are not relevant to the case.

 

Looks like you'll need your own lawyer.  Another option I've seen work for others is more negative social media to shame the 'guest' into withdrawing the case.

 

You can't be critical of the guests, or you'll have another defamation case, but you can get factual reports about the case into the media.  Airbnb may be able help with this?

 

International media reports tend to cause more feelings of shame in people using this law.

[HauptmannUK]

Given he's a lawyer this could easily turn ugly.  Do you have any evidence to back up your negative review (photos, witness statement from cleaners etc)?  In any event you are  going to need your own lawyer....

 

I make a point of never leaving a bad review in Thailand, but rather 'damning with faint praise'.  e.g. give 4 or 5 stars, "They were such a lovely family. It took us five hours to clean up after they left".  Leave the reader to read between the lines.

Edited February 2 by HauptmannUK

[OneMoreFarang]

If you have pictures and the situation looks really bad, then maybe tell your guest that you think about publishing those pictures.

Like: Lawyer X visited me and that is how he left the place.

Maybe he is afraid of that.

This is just my opinion, I have no legal knowledge about the situation. 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, mr_lob said:

the guy *who is a lawyer*

But is he really a Lawyer? Has he any proof others have refused his bookings? No matter what you say in Thailand even if it's true, you can be sued. And even if you make a public apology. I thought every man and dog knew that. 

Edited February 2 by brianthainess

[mr_lob]

1 hour ago, HauptmannUK said:

Given he's a lawyer this could easily turn ugly.  Do you have any evidence to back up your negative review (photos, witness statement from cleaners etc)?  In any event you are  going to need your own lawyer....

 

I make a point of never leaving a bad review in Thailand, but rather 'damning with faint praise'.  e.g. give 4 or 5 stars, "They were such a lovely family. It took us five hours to clean up after they left".  Leave the reader to read between the lines.

Unfortunately we don't have pictures, but we do have our housekeeping group chat fromt he day confirming that one villa was left very clean and this one very dirty. Our housekeeping staff are willing to testify this in court. 

If we get fined for this, it will set a precedent - any Thais can book an airbnb, trash it, wait for a bad review and then sue for defamation!

Yes, he really is a lawyer

[richard_smith237]

Can you edit your comments on Air-B-n-B ???

 

IF so, can you negotiate with him to take down your comments if he drops the case ?

 

(that could be the simplest solution, but also involves swallowing your pride).

 

Also, have you contacted Air-b-n-b and told them you are being sued thought a review left on their platform ? and are they going to assist ?  (unlikely unless publicity gets very bad for air-b-n-b as it did with the trip-advisor Koh Chiang case).

[richard_smith237]

Thats two concurrently running examples of the complete backwardness of Thailands defamation laws which are really a blight on the development of this nation we all care about. 

[mr_lob]

56 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Can you edit your comments on Air-B-n-B ???

 

IF so, can you negotiate with him to take down your comments if he drops the case ?

 

(that could be the simplest solution, but also involves swallowing your pride).

 

Also, have you contacted Air-b-n-b and told them you are being sued thought a review left on their platform ? and are they going to assist ?  (unlikely unless publicity gets very bad for air-b-n-b as it did with the trip-advisor Koh Chiang case).

I spoke to airbnb, they said that our review does not go against their review policy. However, I asked them to remove it immediately, which they have.

[Jingthing]

Welcome to Thailand.
Everything and Everybody is Wonderful!

[Jingthing]

Isn't Airbnb in decline because people are sick of being expected to do cleaning and maintenance unlike fun hotels where you can trash the place with impunity? 

[uttradit]

If you don't know Thai defamation laws why are you running a business? Probably the first thing you need to learn. What you should have done is take photos and sent them to the grubby lawyer. Here pal,this is the mess you left us. Pay us extra. The cleaning fee is 500 baht grub. That's how you deal with people. Go direct.

[gamb00ler]

Good that you have had the comment taken down.

 

Now, go take good quality "before" photos that cover every area of every unit you rent out.

[JimTripper]

4 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

Given he's a lawyer this could easily turn ugly.  Do you have any evidence to back up your negative review (photos, witness statement from cleaners etc)?  In any event you are  going to need your own lawyer....

 

I make a point of never leaving a bad review in Thailand, but rather 'damning with faint praise'.  e.g. give 4 or 5 stars, "They were such a lovely family. It took us five hours to clean up after they left".  Leave the reader to read between the lines.

I only do star only reviews and ratings with no written commentary. If there is no star rating system then just comment on number of stars given, 3 out of 5 stars, or whatever the case may be. Saying why does not really matter anyway, nobody cares about the particulars of an experience as they would not be repeated exactly for each customer.

Edited February 2 by JimTripper

[eisfeld]

Attend the court summons and invite local media to it. Present your case honestly and state that you are the actual victim. He wants to pressure you and you can pressure back. See how he likes the public attention. Then again I would make sure that you actually on the right side of the law regarding rentals of villas via AirBnB which is a whole 'nother story in Thailand.

[richard_smith237]

51 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Attend the court summons and invite local media to it. Present your case honestly and state that you are the actual victim. He wants to pressure you and you can pressure back. See how he likes the public attention. Then again I would make sure that you actually on the right side of the law regarding rentals of villas via AirBnB which is a whole 'nother story in Thailand.

 

Perhaps playing with fire, but I really do like this approach !!!... 

 

 

[tgw]

3 hours ago, mr_lob said:

I spoke to airbnb, they said that our review does not go against their review policy. However, I asked them to remove it immediately, which they have.

 

you could have asked airbnb if their terms of use include accepting reviews by owners - if they do, he's screwed.

[zhounan]

This is not the first and won't be the last time.

 

Airbnb should quit Thailand, because it's literally impossible have transparency.

[Banana7]

Make sure you have signed sworn witnessed statements from multiple staff stating the condition of the villa after he left, using the exact words that you posted on the website. Next counter sue him for extra cleaning charges etc. (theft of towels??), get a court date, tell us what happens.

 

Next time, upon checkout, as many many hotels etc. do, inspect the accommodation prior  to the guest leaving. Do not let them leave without checking the accommodation for damage, theft and anything else that is inappropriate.

 

 

Edited February 2 by Banana7

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, tgw said:

 

you could have asked airbnb if their terms of use include accepting reviews by owners - if they do, he's screwed.

 

Also worth checking if AirBnB ToS prevent people from sueing others for reviews. Seems like something they should have in there to protect their users, hosts and guests alike.

[Bangkok Barry]

Was this airbnb in Thailand? I presume so, but the OP only says it was a Thai group. If so, airbnb is illegal in Thailand so the OP is on shaky ground anyway. But the lawyer could be counter-sued for knowingly renting an airbnb property, and then the fun can begin.

[Peterphuket]

6 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Make sure you have signed sworn witnessed statements from multiple staff stating the condition of the villa after he left, using the exact words that you posted on the website. Next counter sue him for extra cleaning charges etc. (theft of towels??), get a court date, tell us what happens.

 

Next time, upon checkout, as many many hotels etc. do, inspect the accommodation prior  to the guest leaving. Do not let them leave without checking the accommodation for damage, theft and anything else that is inappropriate.

 

 

I agree, back in the days when I also rented apartments through AIRBNB, I was always there myself to hand over the key and collect it upon leaving.

[steven100]

Speak to your lawyer ....   see if you can counter-sue for cleaning charges,  as it took housekeeping hours to get the villa habitable again.

[SS1]

32 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

airbnb is illegal in Thailand

 

This statement is wrong - AirBnB has never been illegal in Thailand. The law has nothing to do with the platform, it's to do with the nature of rentals in general. There are plenty of scenarios where using AirBnB can be fully legal such as:

• Renting any room for more than 30 days 
• A resort with a hotel license using the platform
• Renting a villa with 4 bedrooms or less (or whatever the nr. of rooms under the exemption of hotel license requirement) 

[Bangkok Barry]

25 minutes ago, SS1 said:

 

This statement is wrong - AirBnB has never been illegal in Thailand. The law has nothing to do with the platform, it's to do with the nature of rentals in general. There are plenty of scenarios where using AirBnB can be fully legal such as:

• Renting any room for more than 30 days 
• A resort with a hotel license using the platform
• Renting a villa with 4 bedrooms or less (or whatever the nr. of rooms under the exemption of hotel license requirement) 

 

Thanks. I wonder how many of the things you mention apply in this case.

[it is what it is]

 

can't you counter sue saying that in suing you he is causing you stress, distress and it's having a negative impact on your business?😁

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

If so, airbnb is illegal in Thailand so the OP is on shaky ground anyway.

You shouldn't believe what is said about airbnb on here.

It is all about licence requirements and that has nothing to do with airbnb, it is the responsibility of the owner to comply.

[AAArdvark]

58 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Speak to your lawyer ....   see if you can counter-sue for cleaning charges,  as it took housekeeping hours to get the villa habitable again.

The cost of extra cleaning vs  ฿300000

[steven100]

2 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

The cost of extra cleaning vs  ฿300000

 

extra cleaning costs summons .... B300000