As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[NativeBob]

Love his pupils! dude doesn't even hide his addiction.

Was it Eric Clapton's song "She don't like/she don't like/she don't like/**caine!"

[Social Media]

Topic Update: IDF special forces rescue 2 hostages in 'daring' overnight operation in Rafah

 

 

In a daring nighttime operation, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care.

 

The IDF, in collaboration with the Israel Security Agency (ISA) and Israel Police, conducted the joint operation, marking a significant victory for Israeli security forces. The operation's success was hailed by Defense Minister Yoav Gallant as "impressive," reaffirming Israel's commitment to retrieving abducted citizens by any means necessary.

 

Reports indicate that the hostages had been held captive on the second floor of a building in Rafah, highlighting the perilous conditions they endured prior to their rescue. The exact details of the operation remain undisclosed, but footage released by the IDF showed a helicopter landing at an undisclosed location, suggesting the involvement of aerial assets in the rescue mission.

 

Upon their arrival at Sheba Medical Center in central Israel, the rescued hostages underwent initial medical assessments and were reported to be in stable condition. Armon Aek, acting director at the medical center, expressed relief at their safe return and praised the swift response of the medical staff in attending to their needs.

 

The rescue operation comes in the wake of escalating tensions in the region, with Hamas militants unleashing a deadly assault on southern Israel, resulting in numerous casualties and the abduction of innocent civilians. Israel's decisive action to retrieve its citizens underscores its unwavering commitment to safeguarding the lives of its people and maintaining security within its borders.

 

In response to the escalating violence, Israel launched a series of airstrikes targeting key Hamas positions in Rafah and surrounding areas. Eyewitnesses reported intense bombardment by air and sea, indicating a concerted effort by Israeli forces to neutralize Hamas threats and secure the safe return of the hostages.

 

Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate.

 

Source Source

[WDSmart]

7 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

if you want a lasting peace , one side has to lose totally . like in WW2 when Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan suffered total defeat .

any fudges or bleeding heart diplomacy will only let the cancer spread ,, War must have a result ,a winner  and a loser  no draws ...or both sides  wipe themslves out  .. that  another win win for humanity ,,

That's the grimmest option of a one-state solution, and I agree if what you're saying is that neither side will accept a more "sharing" one-state solution or a two-state solution where the land is divided up. And sadly, yes, that's where they seem to be stuck at this time.

[WDSmart]

57 minutes ago, Social Media said:

Topic Update: IDF special forces rescue 2 hostages in 'daring' overnight operation in Rafah

 

 

In a daring nighttime operation, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care.

 

The IDF, in collaboration with the Israel Security Agency (ISA) and Israel Police, conducted the joint operation, marking a significant victory for Israeli security forces. The operation's success was hailed by Defense Minister Yoav Gallant as "impressive," reaffirming Israel's commitment to retrieving abducted citizens by any means necessary.

 

Reports indicate that the hostages had been held captive on the second floor of a building in Rafah, highlighting the perilous conditions they endured prior to their rescue. The exact details of the operation remain undisclosed, but footage released by the IDF showed a helicopter landing at an undisclosed location, suggesting the involvement of aerial assets in the rescue mission.

 

Upon their arrival at Sheba Medical Center in central Israel, the rescued hostages underwent initial medical assessments and were reported to be in stable condition. Armon Aek, acting director at the medical center, expressed relief at their safe return and praised the swift response of the medical staff in attending to their needs.

 

The rescue operation comes in the wake of escalating tensions in the region, with Hamas militants unleashing a deadly assault on southern Israel, resulting in numerous casualties and the abduction of innocent civilians. Israel's decisive action to retrieve its citizens underscores its unwavering commitment to safeguarding the lives of its people and maintaining security within its borders.

 

In response to the escalating violence, Israel launched a series of airstrikes targeting key Hamas positions in Rafah and surrounding areas. Eyewitnesses reported intense bombardment by air and sea, indicating a concerted effort by Israeli forces to neutralize Hamas threats and secure the safe return of the hostages.

 

Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate.

 

Source Source

I think everyone ought to make sure they read in this report that includes my emphasis.

- "...the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care."

...and, "Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate."

 

So, the bottom line is two elderly hostages were rescued and were found to be in good health. The cost for that was 40 to 50 (or more) Palestinians killed, most of them probably civilians.

Two apparently well-treated hostages were rescued at the cost of 40 to 50 other people's lives, and many of you on this Topic see this as a reason to celebrate. This is, in essence, a perfect example of your despicable biases.  

Edited February 12 by WDSmart

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

 disproportionate."

 

So, the bottom line is two elderly hostages were rescued and were found to be in good health. The cost for that was 40 to 50 (or more) Palestinians killed, most of them probably civilians.

Two apparently well-treated hostages were rescued at the cost of 40 to 50 other people's lives, and many of you on this Topic see this as a reason to celebrate. This is, in essence, a perfect example of your despicable biases.  

 

   People are happy that two hostages were freed ,celebrating because two people are no longer hostages , people were not celebrating the deaths of any innocent Palestinians

[Bkk Brian]

20 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I think everyone ought to make sure they read in this report that includes my emphasis.

- "...the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care."

...and, "Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate."

 

So, the bottom line is two elderly hostages were rescued and were found to be in good health. The cost for that was 40 to 50 (or more) Palestinians killed, most of them probably civilians.

Two apparently well-treated hostages were rescued at the cost of 40 to 50 other people's lives, and many of you on this Topic see this as a reason to celebrate. This is, in essence, a perfect example of your despicable biases.  

How many of those Palestinians killed were Hamas terrorists, quite a few I would think, especially in the operation to release the hostages.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

22 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I think everyone ought to make sure they read in this report that includes my emphasis.

- "...the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care."

...and, "Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate."

 

So, the bottom line is two elderly hostages were rescued and were found to be in good health. The cost for that was 40 to 50 (or more) Palestinians killed, most of them probably civilians.

Two apparently well-treated hostages were rescued at the cost of 40 to 50 other people's lives, and many of you on this Topic see this as a reason to celebrate. This is, in essence, a perfect example of your despicable biases.  

 

 

Some evidence or verification of the numbers killed and that most killed were probably civilians please (and not from Hamas, Al Jazeera, or the Hamas puppet the UN)

 

The antisemitism that pumps through your veins will not allow you to be happy for the 2 hostages that have been freed after 4 months in illegal captivity, and for the enormous relief and joy their families must be feeling …..

 

shameless, graceless man …. trigger whataboutery.

[Bkk Brian]

Here's some more Palestinians killed yesterday that just happen to also be Hamas terrorists

 

Breaking: The IDF has just released footage from the body camera of an eliminated Hamas terrorist. The video shows how his terror cell, disguised in civilian clothing, booby-trapped a civilian house with explosives in an attempt to harm our forces.

are these your heroes?

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

Some evidence or verification of the numbers killed and that most killed were probably civilians please (and not from Hamas, Al Jazeera, or the Hamas puppet the UN)

 

The antisemitism that pumps through your veins will not allow you to be happy for the 2 hostages that have been freed after 4 months in illegal captivity, and for the enormous relief and joy their families must be feeling …..

 

shameless, graceless man …. trigger whataboutery.

 

   For them , its a huge loss , the hostages are giving them some form of protection an also gives them bargaining power , losing hostages weakens their position 

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

I think everyone ought to make sure they read in this report that includes my emphasis.

- "...the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care."

...and, "Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate."

 

So, the bottom line is two elderly hostages were rescued and were found to be in good health. The cost for that was 40 to 50 (or more) Palestinians killed, most of them probably civilians.

Two apparently well-treated hostages were rescued at the cost of 40 to 50 other people's lives, and many of you on this Topic see this as a reason to celebrate. This is, in essence, a perfect example of your despicable biases.  

Hamas is warning of "tens of thousands" of casualties in Rafah. However they also control the numbers dished out so who knows. One thing is certain, they are feeling the heat in Rafah, their last stronghold.

[Lemsta69]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

I think everyone ought to make sure they read in this report that includes my emphasis.

- "...the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care."

...and, "Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate."

 

So, the bottom line is two elderly hostages were rescued and were found to be in good health. The cost for that was 40 to 50 (or more) Palestinians killed, most of them probably civilians.

Two apparently well-treated hostages were rescued at the cost of 40 to 50 other people's lives, and many of you on this Topic see this as a reason to celebrate. This is, in essence, a perfect example of your despicable biases.  

 

Only 40 or 50? IDF needs to try harder.

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

Some evidence or verification of the numbers killed and that most killed were probably civilians please (and not from Hamas, Al Jazeera, or the Hamas puppet the UN)

 

The antisemitism that pumps through your veins will not allow you to be happy for the 2 hostages that have been freed after 4 months in illegal captivity, and for the enormous relief and joy their families must be feeling …..

 

shameless, graceless man …. trigger whataboutery.

I have heard on CNN's TV News that the Palestinian dead could be as many as 60. I have no link for that, but I'm sure those numbers will continue to be made available to us as the day goes by. And anyway, whether it was 10, 20, 40, or 60 makes no difference to the point I am making. That is, many of you on this Topic place no value on the lives of the Palestinians. Sixty dead for two released is okay with you. That, to me, shows your bias and anti-Semitism. Shame on you!

Update: CNN in now reporting "over 100" Palestinians killed." 

Edited February 12 by WDSmart

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I have heard on CNN's TV News that the Palestinian dead could be as many as 60. I have no link for that, but I'm sure those numbers will continue to be made available to us as the day goes by. And anyway, whether it was 10, 20, 40, or 60 makes no difference to the point I am making. That is, many of you on this Topic place no value on the lives of the Palestinians. Sixty dead for two released is okay with you. That, to me, shows your bias and anti-Semitism. Shame on you!

Update: CNN in now reporting "over 100" Palestinians killed." 

BBC is reporting 48 to 100 depending on which Hamas official they quote. What makes you think these are all civilians?

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

BBC is reporting 48 to 100 depending on which Hamas official they quote. What makes you think these are all civilians?

I don't think they are all civilians, but I do think they are all Palestinians. And I do suspect most of them, say 90% or so, are civilians. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I don't think they are all civilians, but I do think they are all Palestinians. And I do suspect most of them, say 90% or so, are civilians. 

What you suspect and what is actually reality may be two very different things.

 

Lord Roberts of Belgravia importantly stresses that the 2:1 civilian to combatant casualty ratio in an urban conflict such as in Gaza is a difficult accomplishment for any army, and commends the IDF the efforts it takes to limit civilian casualty.

 

 

[billd766]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:09 PM, Eloquent pilgrim said:

So the figures come directly from Hamas then; fodder for the gullible and incurious 

And where do you think Israel gets its figures from?

 

They get them from the IDF itself. which IMHO is one of the least trustworthy sources in the conflict.

[WDSmart]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What you suspect and what is actually reality may be two very different things.

 

Lord Roberts of Belgravia importantly stresses that the 2:1 civilian to combatant casualty ratio in an urban conflict such as in Gaza is a difficult accomplishment for any army, and commends the IDF the efforts it takes to limit civilian casualty.

 

 

Okay, then 2:1. That would be about a 67:33 ration, or, if CNN's latest 100-killed number proves to be reasonably accurate, 67 civilians. Then, the ratio of civilians killed to hostages saved is 67:2. 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Okay, then 2:1. That would be about a 67:33 ration, or, if CNN's latest 100-killed number proves to be reasonably accurate, 67 civilians. Then, the ratio of civilians killed to hostages saved is 67:2. 

Why are you deliberately leaving out terrorists killed in figures? 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And where do you think Israel gets its figures from?

 

They get them from the IDF itself. which IMHO is one of the least trustworthy sources in the conflict.

 

Hold on; you’ve asked me a question signified by a question mark, and then proceeded to answer it yourself.

 

If you just talk to yourself, it’s no surprise that you make little sense; still at least you always get the answer you want, which must make you feel all warm and righteous.

 

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why are you deliberately leaving out terrorists killed in figures? 

For two reasons:
1. I don't know the breakdown of these numbers by categories,
2. They are still people who were killed.

And, all these figures are preliminary ones. We won't get any figures that are somewhat dependable for a couple of days or more.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, WDSmart said:

For two reasons:
1. I don't know the breakdown of these numbers by categories,
2. They are still people who were killed.

And, all these figures are preliminary ones. We won't get any figures that are somewhat dependable for a couple of days or more.

Far too much speculation and terrorists being killed in a war is expected when the IDF is targeting them and they are targeting the IDF. You are also making assumptions that all the deaths were because of one hostage release operation, what makes you think that? How many IDF were killed? in Rafah, you don't know yet. 

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Far too much speculation and terrorists being killed in a war is expected when the IDF is targeting them and they are targeting the IDF. You are also making assumptions that all the deaths were because of one hostage release operation, what makes you think that? How many IDF were killed? in Rafah, you don't know yet. 

Speculation and deductions are what I do after I watch/read news like this. However, news organizations like CNN report figures from various sources.

CNN reported that the Palestinians killed today were a part of the hostage retrieval operation, a diversionary tactic.

I didn't hear of any IDF being killed, but there was a report of one being wounded (or hurt somehow).

I'm sure there will be many, many more Palestinians killed in Rafah, and undoubtedly some IDF also.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Speculation and deductions are what I do after I watch/read news like this. However, news organizations like CNN report figures from various sources.

CNN reported that the Palestinians killed today were a part of the hostage retrieval operation, a diversionary tactic.

I didn't hear of any IDF being killed, but there was a report of one being wounded (or hurt somehow).

I'm sure there will be many, many more Palestinians killed in Rafah, and undoubtedly some IDF also.

CNN reported that the Palestinians killed today were a part of the hostage retrieval operation, a diversionary tactic.

 

Link needed for that specific claim. Its not what CNN is reporting, latest report 2 hours ago:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/12/middleeast/israel-hostages-rescued-gaza-rafah-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[WDSmart]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

CNN reported that the Palestinians killed today were a part of the hostage retrieval operation, a diversionary tactic.

 

Link needed for that specific claim. Its not what CNN is reporting, latest report 2 hours ago:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/12/middleeast/israel-hostages-rescued-gaza-rafah-intl-hnk/index.html

 

This link is not CNN, but it's the first one I saw on my Internet search... 
Israel Strikes Rafah as Diversion to Rescue Two Hostages: War Live Updates - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

This link is not CNN, but it's the first one I saw on my Internet search... 
Israel Strikes Rafah as Diversion to Rescue Two Hostages: War Live Updates - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

But you said CNN.

26 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

CNN reported that the Palestinians killed today were a part of the hostage retrieval operation, a diversionary tactic.

and the report you now link to which was last updated 15 minutes ago says "Local news outlets reported that at least a dozen Palestinians"

 

Like I said, too much speculation in your Math and who was killed

[Bkk Brian]

The emotional reunion between Fernando and Luis, the hostages who were rescued in a heroic operation in Rafah overnight, and their family members

📹IDF Spokesperson

 

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

But you said CNN.

and the report you now link to which was last updated 15 minutes ago says "Local news outlets reported that at least a dozen Palestinians"

 

Like I said, too much speculation in your Math and who was killed

What is the matter with you?!! What difference does all this make?

I heard the "diversionary tactic" on CNN this morning when I first heard them report on the incident. I've said over and over and over again that we'll have to wait for probably DAYS before we'll have any numbers on the people killed (and maybe the breakdown by categories).

Here's the bottom line:
- The IDF went into Rafah in Gaza and rescued two hostages;
- While doing that, they killed a number of Palestinians. The figures range from "a dozen" to "over 100." How many of those were civilians vs. Hamas fighters, we don't know.

Okay????? 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

What is the matter with you?!! What difference does all this make?

I heard the "diversionary tactic" on CNN this morning when I first heard them report on the incident. I've said over and over and over again that we'll have to wait for probably DAYS before we'll have any numbers on the people killed (and maybe the breakdown by categories).

Here's the bottom line:
- The IDF went into Rafah in Gaza and rescued two hostages;
- While doing that, they killed a number of Palestinians. The figures range from "a dozen" to "over 100." How many of those were civilians vs. Hamas fighters, we don't know.

Okay????? 

 

Pretty sure you were the one trying to create maths and figures around it.

 

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Okay, then 2:1. That would be about a 67:33 ration, or, if CNN's latest 100-killed number proves to be reasonably accurate, 67 civilians. Then, the ratio of civilians killed to hostages saved is 67:2. 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

And where do you think Israel gets its figures from?

 

They get them from the IDF itself. which IMHO is one of the least trustworthy sources in the conflict.

 

   Why do you consider the IDF figures to be the least trustworthy ?

[Captain Monday]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Reading these topics, there are certainly some on here which justify Hamas's actions, normalize them, see them as 'freedom fighters'. Looking out into the world outside this forum, quite a lot of that as well. So when you say, 'no rational person'

No rational person supports terrorism.

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Spin it as you like - Hamas is (was?) the de-facto ruler of the Gaza Strip. When it suits, people treat Hamas rule as 'inevitable', or as being a representation of the people's will. When it doesn't - they are a terrorist group that can't be expected to be accountable for its actions. Wanting to have it both ways is cool. 

 

 

 

So Morch , - what does that even mean in this context? 

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

People go on and on about 'war crimes', somehow imagining that saying 'war crimes' make them a fact. Well, 'war crimes' are something that is decided through a rather lengthy legal process, and them rules allow a whole lot of things in reality. Some of you don't seem to grasp that.

 

Rubbish, I already explained that to you clearly. You have common sense. To know what a war crime is we do not have to wait for the results of an international tribunal. And pointless because Israel, with full diplomatic cover of the United States  will never let its officials or military officers be subject to the jusrisdiction, judgements, and punishments of such a proceeding if it were to ever happen anyway. 

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

As for two wrongs don't make a right - that's a laugh. A whole lot of the arguments against Israel/pro-Hamas/Palestinians here are that Israel's wrongs made Hamas's attack legit, expected, justified and so on. Again, trying to have it both ways is cool.

 

Notice, also, that I'm not so much defending Israel's actions, as protesting the lack of balance when treating things.

Glad to hear that you are not defending Israels actions.  I am positive know that you know two wrongs don't make a right. Might makes right. Do what I say, not what I do.

Edited February 12 by Captain Monday