The lost art of tipping

[AhFarangJa]

On 2/24/2024 at 12:53 PM, Tropicalevo said:

I always pay cash and I always leave a tip.

Keeping the art alive.

Exactly, many people just do not realise the banks, and Governments want us to stop using cash. Then they will have one more step to complete control.

[Brock]

There is no requirement or expectation of a tip in Thailand, though the tip is appreciated by your server. 

You have to remember, that giving a tip is not a universal practice.. In Australia, servers are paid a decent wage, so arent hassling for a tip.

If you wish to tip fine, but dont look down on those that dont as cheap charlies, as its may not be their custom to tip..

[steven100]

I know they tip in Texas ....  George Bush tips when he goes to a restaurant I bet.

 

In Thailand,  I tip 20, 30 baht ....  if the service was fine and the staff were friendly.

But to be honest,  no reason to tip as it's their normal job,  the owner can tip his staff if he wants,  no one tipped me at work that's for damn sure   !

[Andyfez]

Filthy American habit.

If the employers pay them a living wage, why rely on other people to subsidize their living costs.

[amexpat]

25 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

Exactly, many people just do not realise the banks, and Governments want us to stop using cash. Then they will have one more step to complete control.

Two things to remember:

- Government is totally incompetent and can't do anything right.

- Government is going to control your every move by brilliant, devious, plans. 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, alex8912 said:

Beers are not cheaper in Japan. That is just a crazy comment based on probably one place you went to. Also comparing Japan to Thailand as you have about four times on this thread is like comparing apples and kangaroos. 

Having lived in Japan for a third of my life I can comment with authority. When I first lived there the difference in general was that Japan was 8 to 10 time more expensive. However the relative cost of beer in Japan was that a bottle of beer (larger than in Thailand by 10%) cost about 20 minutes work. The smaller (but still large bottle) in Thailand cost about 3 hours work, these are all takeout prices.

 

So in absolute terms beer in Japan is more expensive. In relative terms beer in Thailand costs more than 10 times the price in Japan 

 

FWIW there has been zero to negative inflation in Japan for about 30 years so now Thailand is around ½ the Japanese costs

[Lemsta69]

43 minutes ago, Brock said:

There is no requirement or expectation of a tip in Thailand

 

That is not universally true. Are you sure you've ever been here?

[KhunLA]

I won't do cashless transactions.  Usually don't tip either, if not expected, and isn't from most vendors we frequent.

 

Leave paying to the Mrs, since I'm a Yank, and worked in restaurants & bars, I used to be a good tipper, days past.   Although since that work history, I'm critical of the universally poor service most places provide.  TH not being a tip driven salary workplace, and low pay of staff, the poor service is almost understandable.   Probably why locally, we are repeat customers at family owned & run vendors, and service s always excellent   

 

Few to none get that 10% service charge, and simply a scam IMHO, so avoid vendors, when possible, that apply it.

[Dolf]

44 minutes ago, Andyfez said:

Filthy American habit.

If the employers pay them a living wage, why rely on other people to subsidize their living costs.

It started in England 500 years ago.

[nomad2019]

I never Tip unless service is extremely good!! 

 

[wimpy]

Pay with credit cards and tip in cash.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, wimpy said:

Pay with credit cards and tip in cash.

Doesn't the CC charge the vendor, this raising their overheard, which costs are passed onto the customers, all customers, even us cash only folks.   Thanks 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Andyfez said:

Filthy American habit.

If the employers pay them a living wage, why rely on other people to subsidize their living costs.

Never miss an opportunity to Yank bash, even though it was an Euro tradition picked up by Yanks visiting Europe, days past, as already pointed out.

 

Do try to keep up, and know your history 

[wimpy]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Doesn't the CC charge the vendor, this raising their overheard, which costs are passed onto the customers, all customers, even us cash only folks.   Thanks 

Thank you for helping my accumulation of points.

[new2here]

On 2/24/2024 at 1:13 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Is not tipping being a cheap charlie ?

 

If you tip in Japan its considered an insult. 

Why don't businesses (i.e. US) pay their staff a decent rate so tipping is not needed ?? - isn't that being a cheap charlie ?

 

I want to ask all the 'big tippers'... ?? Do they tip their hotel staff in the breakfast buffet?...  do they tip the flight attendant on the way over here ?

 

We just arrived in Bangkok after holiday.. we had 90 kgs of baggage (and I was injured), 2x baggage handlers helped us, they each got 100 baht - which I thought reasonable. 

 

 

Personally, I don't like the practice of tipping at all as I struggle to know where to draw the line ? 

Tip the taxi driver ? the bus driver ? the Pilot ?

In most cases over here its obvious though.

 

So is a tip suggesting that 'I get paid more than you so you should be happy with my scraps' ?

Its a very grey area that is often complicated. 

 

On the surface of it I prefer the simplicity of a non tipping culture, but a tipping culture also has more people around to help with the small things.

 

 

 

I agree…. to me, this is where “tipping” kind of got “lost in translation” if you will. 

The US, in many cases, uses tips as a part of the staff basic/minimum wage — ie they’re paid less (under the otherwise legal minimum) per hour with the expectation that tips, when added to the basic wage, then totals equal to or above the mandated minimum wage. 

 

where as in other parts of the world, staff are paid full wage by the employer and tips remain a wholly supplemental component.

 

I also agree that what also gets a bit muddy is the whole “tipping for what?” question.

Its fair, to me, to ask if tipping is appropriate if you received the basics - nothing great or in your opinion, above basic - but you did get what you paid for - no more, no less.. is a tip to be expected or given.. fair question.

 

i also agree that, socially speaking, the question of what/where/when is an acceptable or appropriate time to give or even accept a tip, is something that’s less then clear as well.   I do think that many of your classic tipping scenarios (ie your table wait staff etc) are well established .. but where is that line drawn?  fair question again. 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Beers are not cheaper in Japan. That is just a crazy comment based on probably one place you went to. Also comparing Japan to Thailand as you have about four times on this thread is like comparing apples and kangaroos. 

 

Its comparing tipping cutlure and the art, or lost art of tipping...

 

I'm in Japan every year, often twice per year... 

A Glass of very fine Crisp Sapporro beer there is 600 JPY in a regular restaurant, and a large pint size glass for 900 JPY 

(Thats about 143 baht up to 215 baht)...   The best you'll achieve in Thailand is a drinking a beer on the 7-11 steps.

 

Perhaps in a mom & pop non-AC restaurant you can get a large Chang for 140 Baht with tour meal.

 

 

Now... the comparison is about cost of living and cost of wages vs tipping.

Japan was used as it the 'opposite' of a tipping culture and the excuse was used that this is because costs are higher and wages are higher...  I have pointed out that the costs of a lot of every day items in Japan are as cheap as or cheaper than (or very close to) the price of every day items in Thailand....    

The same parallels can be triangulated across to the USA where the price of products are higher than Thailand yet tipping is far more prevalent (mixing geometric metaphors there).

 

The whole facet of that part of the discussion from my contribution to this thread is how tipping is more a cultural phenomenon than it is related to 'cost of living' - I think this point is lost on some, or simply too difficult to follow if a comment is not just a throwaway one liner.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

2 hours ago, Andyfez said:

Filthy American habit.

If the employers pay them a living wage, why rely on other people to subsidize their living costs.

Never miss an opportunity to Yank bash, even though it was an Euro tradition picked up by Yanks visiting Europe, days past, as already pointed out.

 

Do try to keep up, and know your history 

 

 

I agree with you Khun LA that the comment was a Yank-Bash... But its also fairly accurate... as highlighted, tipping started in Europe and the Middle East when houses would take in Guests and the servants would have to work 'extra'.... It became custom for the house guests to 'tip the servants' for their additional work... 

 

In the 1800's the visiting wealthy Americans thought this 'quaint' and ran with the idea, and of course amplified this practice across businesses to such a degree that as pointed out by Andyfez, businesses in America pay their staff 'sub-minimum wage' rates which are subsidised with tips....   

 

When not growing up in this culture for those such as myself this is viewed as a somewhat 'exploitive' business practice within the service industry in the US.

 

Thus, when there are people who suggest not tipping is being a cheap-charlie, it begs the questions who the cheap charlies really are... those not tipping, or those who created a situation where their staff's wages 'need' to be supplemented with tips just for them to make minimum wage (and in cases extra).

 

 

 

 

 

[traveller101]

On 2/24/2024 at 2:12 PM, G_Money said:

“massive hack of the system one day”

 

Under what conspiracy theory does this fall under?

My IPhone has never been hacked.

 

Conspiracy theories?Let's have a look at reality - shall we?

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/two-more-thai-banks-suffer-system-crashes/

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40029006 - latest collapse affecting digital money transfers 2023. 4 more similar crashes in the 1st quarter 2023, down from 17 in 2022.

 

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-execs-chose-to-keep-hack-of-128-million-iphones-quiet/

And for good measure .... just because your iPhone has never been hacked doesn’t mean that IPhones are safe.

July 2023

 

[n00dle]

On 2/24/2024 at 7:41 PM, kingstonkid said:

what the F happens if the store loses its power

Given that most stores use electronic/computerized tills, ringing the purchase up is more of an issue than receiving payment. My phone works during most power outages, and unless the internet to the city has gone down, you should still be able to make payment.

I have seen plenty of 7-11s refuse cash during a power outage, online banking is not the issue here. recording the purchase is. 

And how does a quick scan and transfer take longer than using a credit/debt card?   Last time I tried to use my card they tried 2 machines and asked if I could scan, but i had forgotten my phone so i had to come back and try again later. 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, n00dle said:

On 2/24/2024 at 7:41 PM, kingstonkid said:

what the F happens if the store loses its power

Given that most stores use electroni tils, ringing the purchase up is more of an issue than receiving payment. my phone works during most power outages, and unless internet to the city has gone down, you should still be able to make payment.

I have seen plenty of 7-11s refuse cash during a power outage, online banking is not the issue here. 

and how does a quick scan and transfer take longer than a using a credit/debt card?   last time i stored to use my card they tried 2 machines and asked if i could scan.

 

Indeed....   this degree of 'whatifery' is quite entertaining as the myopic channels of someones mind meanders down a rabbit-hole of narrow mindedness oblivious to the bigger picture... 

 

If there's a power outage in a store is something like a big-C or 7-11 the tills aren't working anyway - no transactions are being made - but how often has that every happened to anyone anyway ????

 

Of course, the response is usually... if its in a 'mom-and-pop' store...  they'll still take cash....  and those comments are made without the comprehension that a 'photo to phone' transaction can also be made just as easily with PromptPay - Go to a wet market and we can see the phone to phone transactions being undertaken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Its comparing tipping cutlure and the art, or lost art of tipping...

 

I'm in Japan every year, often twice per year... 

A Glass of very fine Crisp Sapporro beer there is 600 JPY in a regular restaurant, and a large pint size glass for 900 JPY 

(Thats about 143 baht up to 215 baht)...   The best you'll achieve in Thailand is a drinking a beer on the 7-11 steps.

 

Perhaps in a mom & pop non-AC restaurant you can get a large Chang for 140 Baht with tour meal.

 

 

Now... the comparison is about cost of living and cost of wages vs tipping.

Japan was used as it the 'opposite' of a tipping culture and the excuse was used that this is because costs are higher and wages are higher...  I have pointed out that the costs of a lot of every day items in Japan are as cheap as or cheaper than (or very close to) the price of every day items in Thailand....    

The same parallels can be triangulated across to the USA where the price of products are higher than Thailand yet tipping is far more prevalent (mixing geometric metaphors there).

 

The whole facet of that part of the discussion from my contribution to this thread is how tipping is more a cultural phenomenon than it is related to 'cost of living' - I think this point is lost on some, or simply too difficult to follow if a comment is not just a throwaway one liner.

Here's one more line: I lived and worked in Japan for 2 years Tokyo and Sapporo. 

[shackleton]

When I am out at a restaurant and the service is good especially if the

waitress goes out of her way ie iced bucket for the bottles of beer

I always give a good tip 🤑

They always remember you the next time for good service 

[Jack Batty]

On 2/24/2024 at 12:40 PM, kingstonkid said:

One of the things I have noticed is that with the digital wallets and all the pther digital crap that people are not tipping as much.

 

Tips used to be the loose change or 20 baht note that you got as change.

 

How many here actually dig into their pockets and put a tip in the container after paying digitally

I’m an American. I almost always leave something. And yes, I always pay digitally when it is available. 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

I agree with you Khun LA that the comment was a Yank-Bash... But its also fairly accurate... as highlighted, tipping started in Europe and the Middle East when houses would take in Guests and the servants would have to work 'extra'.... It became custom for the house guests to 'tip the servants' for their additional work... 

 

In the 1800's the visiting wealthy Americans thought this 'quaint' and ran with the idea, and of course amplified this practice across businesses to such a degree that as pointed out by Andyfez, businesses in America pay their staff 'sub-minimum wage' rates which are subsidised with tips....   

 

When not growing up in this culture for those such as myself this is viewed as a somewhat 'exploitive' business practice within the service industry in the US.

 

Thus, when there are people who suggest not tipping is being a cheap-charlie, it begs the questions who the cheap charlies really are... those not tipping, or those who created a situation where their staff's wages 'need' to be supplemented with tips just for them to make minimum wage (and in cases extra).

Yep, that corporate greed thingy slipped in and made it part of 'their' bottom line.  Remember working in restaurant for $1 hour when in high school, and actually a 40+ hr (illegal) work week.  Bussing tables, and portion of pay was from a portion of the waitresses' tips.  When min. wage at the time was: 

So tips matter.   Back then it did ensure good service, though not so much any more, as they expect a certain % as a tip.  Good service has slipped, or so I read.  Before TH, I ate in restaurants a lot, and tipping always added 20% to the cost of a meal.

 

Even the IRS got in on the act now, and tax 'tip wage salaries' on what they feel you should be getting, whether you actually get that on not.   Now that's F'd up.

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Here's one more line: I lived and worked in Japan for 2 years Tokyo and Sapporo. 

 

I have also worked in Japan....     I guess our experiences differ a little on the prices we have experienced... I still think beer is cheaper there....   I'm not comparing a Leo Beer to a Yona Yona ales because the two are completely different in quality... 

Get a beer of similar Quality in Thailand, i.e. Craft IPA and the price is significantly greater in Thailand than in Japan.

 

 

But my statement remains the same - Japan is not a non-tipping culture because of the Cost of living there or price of items.

 

I don't think tipping is related to cost of living in many countries, I suspect its more to do with how much Western, specifically American influence that culture has been exposed to. 

 

In Thailand, tipping used to be 'leave the small change'.... this seems to have turned in to Leave a specific percentage and with the onset of digital billing 10% has become the norm. 

 

 

 

[traveller101]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Indeed....   this degree of 'whatifery' is quite entertaining as the myopic channels of someones mind meanders down a rabbit-hole of narrow mindedness oblivious to the bigger picture... 

 

If there's a power outage in a store is something like a big-C or 7-11 the tills aren't working anyway - no transactions are being made - but how often has that every happened to anyone anyway ????

 

Of course, the response is usually... if its in a 'mom-and-pop' store...  they'll still take cash....  and those comments are made without the comprehension that a 'photo to phone' transaction can also be made just as easily with PromptPay - Go to a wet market and we can see the phone to phone transactions being undertaken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me contribute to the 'whatifery'.

What if the PromptPay, you mentioned as an alternative, suffers a system glitch?

Uuuups - reality check below!

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40029006

In a nutshell: Thai Bankers Association, July 1, 2923

PromptPay glitch caused Saturday collapse of many mobile banking applications.

 

[kingstonkid]

1 hour ago, n00dle said:

Given that most stores use electronic/computerized tills, ringing the purchase up is more of an issue than receiving payment. My phone works during most power outages, and unless the internet to the city has gone down, you should still be able to make payment.

I have seen plenty of 7-11s refuse cash during a power outage, online banking is not the issue here. recording the purchase is. 

And how does a quick scan and transfer take longer than using a credit/debt card?   Last time I tried to use my card they tried 2 machines and asked if I could scan, but i had forgotten my phone so i had to come back and try again later. 

I am not sure where you go but it is still quicker to pay with cash than it is with most wallets.  

 

As to the system crashing, I was thinking ore of the markets that are using this

[kingstonkid]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Indeed....   this degree of 'whatifery' is quite entertaining as the myopic channels of someones mind meanders down a rabbit-hole of narrow mindedness oblivious to the bigger picture... 

 

If there's a power outage in a store is something like a big-C or 7-11 the tills aren't working anyway - no transactions are being made - but how often has that every happened to anyone anyway ????

 

Of course, the response is usually... if its in a 'mom-and-pop' store...  they'll still take cash....  and those comments are made without the comprehension that a 'photo to phone' transaction can also be made just as easily with PromptPay - Go to a wet market and we can see the phone to phone transactions being undertaken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The challenge is that most Thais no longer carry cash.  So when they go to the market, if the system is down, they are screwed.  I went to a very famous coffee shop and was told sorry, we only accept digital.  

[Scott Tracy]

On 2/24/2024 at 6:38 AM, spidermike007 said:

I still give the Foodpanda guy or gal a tip. They work hard, out in the hot sun, and do not get paid as much as they deserve. The 20 baht means nothing to most of us. It means alot to them. I can see that by their reaction. Same applies in a restaurant. Anywhere.

 

From my point of view, a lack of tipping emanates from a very cold heart, that shuts itself off from people. Giving and charity are very healthy for the heart and soul.

 

they work hard...they don't get paid as much as they desrve.... In your view....

 

did you get tipped when you were working? I certainly didn't. It was considered inappropriate for the service industry in which I worked. 

 

The punter pays, however you look at it, whether by tip or whether the service provider's salary 'is as much as they deserve ' I'm sure they would love you to pay them the difference between what they get and what you consider they deserve.which

 

do you actually know how.much they make? What do you consider to be a deserving salary for the job they do?

[khunPer]

On 2/24/2024 at 6:40 AM, kingstonkid said:

How many here actually dig into their pockets and put a tip in the container after paying digitally

Me – and probably among several others – just 20 baht in cash can make a difference...