16 hours ago, Tiber said:

No, this is blatant lying. The State pension cannot be reduced,stopped,or any payback undertaken,its the LAW.  Of course if you would kindly point out as a point in law ,be it court records/newspaper reporting it would suffice in my mind at least, and I'm sure the entire world inc TV

 

     You stated years ago it was sickness benefit (its on record)that he was apprehended for, and quite rightly told to pay back its none contributed benefit payment 

 

   So, I am awaiting your further contribution as to the rules and regulation as applied to your friend  Please hurry,as my morning toilet awaits     Thank You

Aaaah, you're that banned bloke, who keeps getting my pension stuff wrong and making stuff up, I wonder how long you will last this time...😂

 

As for my friend, he is now at death's door, yeh, sad.

 

But you carry on with your BS, BS that never comes forward with actual Government stuff, you have had a loooooooooong time to come up with that actual Gov stuff, but you haven't, so that's twice today you get a laugh from me.........😂

32 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

We can agree to disagree, that would be ok. I suspect it would take a UK lawyer, government minister or DWP official to conclude this matter without doubt.

Yes we will have to agree to disagree.

 

But I still say I have provided clear written facts from a credible source, gov.UK, that is in plain english and states the UK state pension cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud.
 

A government minister or DWP can only state what is written policy, and I have found zero case history in the UK about fraud fines being ordered to be paid from state pension, I doubt many lawyers would even offer an opinion on this, and think it is very unlikely ever to go to court.

 

As always I am happy to read, review and update my opinion, if anyone can provide me with credible evidence or proof to what is in the gov.uk link, being wrong
 

Sorry but I believe my link to gov.uk is far more reliable than a youtube video, from Pattaya Media Group, which is probably just quoting for a syndicated opinion piece online.

 

I look forward to any evidence or links that prove me incorrect and happy to apologise if necessary.

 

Have a good day, and i appreciate you replies.

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

Yes we will have to agree to disagree.

 

But I still say I have provided clear written facts from a credible source, gov.UK, that is in plain english and states the UK state pension cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud.
 

A government minister or DWP can only state what is written policy, and I have found zero case history in the UK about fraud fines being ordered to be paid from state pension, I doubt many lawyers would even offer an opinion on this, and think it is very unlikely ever to go to court.

 

As always I am happy to read, review and update my opinion, if anyone can provide me with credible evidence or proof to what is in the gov.uk link, being wrong
 

Sorry but I believe my link to gov.uk is far more reliable than a youtube video, from Pattaya Media Group, which is probably just quoting for a syndicated opinion piece online.

 

I look forward to any evidence or links that prove me incorrect and happy to apologise if necessary.

But, my friends was reduced to the correct pension rate at the time they worked out when he actually left the UK without telling them, so not so much the word reduced, but adjusted to the correct payment amount at that time.

The overpayment was fraudulent.......😎

 

IMG_20200715_0001.pdf IMG_20200715_0002.pdf IMG_20200715_0004.pdf IMG_20200715_0003.pdf IMG_20200715_0005.pdf

2 minutes ago, transam said:

But, my friends was reduced to the correct pension rate at the time they worked out when he actually left the UK without telling them, so not so much the word reduced, but adjusted to the correct payment amount at that time.

The overpayment was fraudulent.......😎

 

Yes I agree their payments were adjusted to the correct rate.

 

I am not here, supporting or criticising people who do not tell the DWP, just looking at facts.
 

Personally everyone is aware I live in Thailand, and I also think those boosting at anytime about any fraud, is a bit silly, to exposure themself to any risk.

 

Can I ask a few questions about your friends, no problem if you do not wish to answer, but it would give some more awareness of the situation.

 

1. Were they convicted of fraud and the pension reduced, or was the new amount a recalculation on the new information?

 

2. Were they fined for the fraud?

 

3. Were they claiming anything more than the state pension (i.e. pension credit) ?

 

4. Was their state pension payments at anytime stopped?

 

5. Were they required to pay back the over payment?

 

Thanks

 

22 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

IMG_20200715_0001.pdf 853.73 kB · 5 downloads IMG_20200715_0002.pdf 824.06 kB · 4 downloads IMG_20200715_0004.pdf 638.6 kB · 4 downloads IMG_20200715_0003.pdf 521.77 kB · 4 downloads IMG_20200715_0005.pdf 960.11 kB · 4 downloads

That makes interesting reading and should worry a few on here, who think themselves untouchable.

 

So you were fined and had to repay the over payment

 

Without being rude, can I ask if you appealed or had to make a lump sum payment or was it taken from your regular pension payments?

2 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Yes I agree their payments were adjusted to the correct rate.

 

I am not here, supporting or criticising people who do not tell the DWP, just looking at facts.
 

Personally everyone is aware I live in Thailand, and I also think those boosting at anytime about any fraud, is a bit silly, to exposure themself to any risk.

 

Can I ask a few questions about your friends, no problem if you do not wish to answer, but it would give some more awareness of the situation.

 

1. Were they convicted of fraud and the pension reduced, or was the new amount a recalculation on the new information?

 

2. Were they fined for the fraud?

 

3. Were they claiming anything more than the state pension (i.e. pension credit) ?

 

4. Was their state pension payments at anytime stopped?

 

5. Were they required to pay back the over payment?

 

Thanks

 

OK, long time ago, but..........

 

1. No, there was a mandatory 1000 quid fine which he did not have to pay because it was proven he had brain surgery and his UK sister filled in his forms. I have filled in his forms for years now. Seems those who are caught bang to rights pay the fine, no court involved. They have been paid the correct pension from the date pensions determined he left the UK.

2. See above.

3. Don't know.

4. Don't know.

5. His wife told me 5000 quid, but I don't know if any other benefit was involved.  

 

Here is a page from a pensions leaflet, the bottom para explains a lot regarding the UK pension and this subject.

 

 

 

Just now, Georgealbert said:

That makes interesting reading and should worry a few on here, who think themselves untouchable.

 

So you were fined and had to repay the over payment

 

Without being rude, can I ask if you appealed or had to make a payment or was it taken from your pension payments?

 

Yes i was fined £50 and also had to repay the overpayment. This was recovered from my pension payment. I never appealed as i was guilty of receiving the monies when not entitled. 

4 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

Yes i was fined £50 and also had to repay the overpayment. This was recovered from my pension payment. I never appealed as i was guilty of receiving the monies when not entitled. 

So it was taken out of your state pension, and you were not receiving any other benefits?

 

Would it be ok if I repost the first 2 pages as pictures, as not sure many would want to download to read?

6 minutes ago, transam said:

OK, long time ago, but..........

 

1. No, there was a mandatory 1000 quid fine which he did not have to pay because it was proven he had brain surgery and his UK sister filled in his forms. I have filled in his forms for years now. Seems those who are caught bang to rights pay the fine, no court involved. They have been paid the correct pension from the date pensions determined he left the UK.

2. See above.

3. Don't know.

4. Don't know.

5. His wife told me 5000 quid, but I don't know if any other benefit was involved.  

 

Here is a page from a pensions leaflet, the bottom para explains a lot regarding the UK pension and this subject.

 

 

 

Thanks for that.

 

That is the second one in the last hour that shows DWP will and do prosecute and penalise, those they catch.
 

The new bill and powers will just make it easier for the DWP

4 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

So it was taken out of your state pension, and you were not receiving any other benefits?

 

Would it be ok if I repost the first 2 pages as pictures, as not sure many would want to download to read?

 

Yes taken out of my state pension and i was and never have been in receipt of any other benefits.

 

Feel free to repost as pictures any of the download pages.

3 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Thanks for that.

 

That is the second one in the last hour that shows DWP will and do prosecute and penalise, those they catch.
 

The new bill and powers will just make it easier for the DWP

 

I never got caught, i informed them of my change of address to Thailand but i was late in doing so, i was totally honest with them but they showed no mercy.

1 minute ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

Yes taken out of my state pension and i was and never have been in receipt of any other benefits.

 

Feel free to repost as pictures any of the download pages.

Thank you for telling us that and for sharing. As said, it only makes sense that something similar would exist, at least now we have a form of proof to confirm that is does.

@Tiber, where are you, some new info for you............................😂

 

BMT, where are you.........😉

32 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Yes I agree their payments were adjusted to the correct rate.

 

I am not here, supporting or criticising people who do not tell the DWP, just looking at facts.
 

Personally everyone is aware I live in Thailand, and I also think those boosting at anytime about any fraud, is a bit silly, to exposure themself to any risk.

 

Can I ask a few questions about your friends, no problem if you do not wish to answer, but it would give some more awareness of the situation.

 

1. Were they convicted of fraud and the pension reduced, or was the new amount a recalculation on the new information?

 

2. Were they fined for the fraud?

 

3. Were they claiming anything more than the state pension (i.e. pension credit) ?

 

4. Was their state pension payments at anytime stopped?

 

5. Were they required to pay back the over payment?

 

Thanks

 

Seems that the information on the gov.uk website is not a clear cut as I thought. Apologises to @Mike Lister

 

With the information from @transam and @Pumpuynarak, it clearly shows that DWP, will fine, recalculate the pension and take any back over payment, from the state pension. No court is involved, with DWP issuing the penalties.

 

Below is @Pumpuynarak letter from DWP.

 

 

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

Seems that the information on the gov.uk website is not a clear cut as I thought. Apologises to @Mike Lister

 

With the information from @transam and @Pumpuynarak, it clearly shows that DWP, will fine, recalculate the pension and take any back over payment, from the state pension. No court is involved, with DWP issuing the penalties.

 

Below is @Pumpuynarak letter from DWP.

 

 

"The no right of appeal" is the killer, the letter has put a few on here to bed for calling me a liar. 🥴

6 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

I never got caught, i informed them of my change of address to Thailand but i was late in doing so, i was totally honest with them but they showed no mercy.

Sorry for that assumption.

 

Think that makes it even worse.

 

Seems if the new bill is pasted, there maybe more attempts to catch people, but it could be 7 years before those things are fully in place.

22 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

“Despite State Pension overpayments due to fraud currently sitting at 0.0 per cent, ......"

Weren't there people on here claiming they haven't informed HMRC that they live abroad and who continue to receive the increases? Probably nearer 0.1 per cent. 😀 

2 minutes ago, transam said:

"The no right of appeal" is the killer, the letter has put a few on here to bed for calling me a liar. 🥴

The no right of appeal is against the deductions only, seems there is some rights of appeals against the decision, but I have no idea what you could base any appeal on.

 

Another page of @Pumpuynarak letter, which was not posted above.

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Government workers are the laziest and most inefficient people in the world, even if they could do what you suggested, it's too much effort for them to bother.

 

21 hours ago, transam said:

😂....I can't believe you wrote that......................😂

When the (then) new rifle was brought into service in the army back in the 90s, it was known to the troops as the " civil servant"; it didn't work and couldn't be fired!

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

The no right of appeal is against the deductions only, seems there is some rights of appeals against the decision, but I have no idea what you could base any appeal on.

 

Another page of @Pumpuynarak letter, which was not posted above.

But if caught bang to rights, Gov has the evidence to back up their decision, who is going to risk paying for a court case...🤔

24 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

Weren't there people on here claiming they haven't informed HMRC that they live abroad and who continue to receive the increases? Probably nearer 0.1 per cent. 😀 

Pensions are nothing to do with HMRC, but are dealt with by DWP, and there is very little link up between the two agencies.

 

The governments, seems to think the new bill, will bring in savings of 10s of millions per year.

 

No idea how many have not informed DWP they live abroad, as it’s everyone’s personal choice and none of my business., but don’t think exposing themself on an open forum is a good idea.

10 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Pensions are nothing to do with HMRC, but are dealt with by DWP, and there is very little link up between the two agencies.

 

The governments, seems to think the new bill, will bring in savings of 10s of millions per year.

 

No idea how many have not informed DWP they live abroad, as it’s everyone’s personal choice and none of my business., but don’t think exposing themself on an open forum is a good idea.

Yes, only a fool would do that (BMT).............🙄

 

Just thought, l will be seeing my old friend on Friday, never thought to ask if they still have the paperwork regarding getting nicked by pensions, will ask his wife, but it was a while back, and I may have already asked, can't remember, will come back here if they have...🤗

3 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

I still say I have provided clear written facts from a credible source, gov.UK, that is in plain english and states the UK state pension cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud.

 

Quote

Your benefits can be reduced or stopped for up to 3 years if you're convicted of benefit fraud. The amount of time they're stopped for depends on how many times you've committed fraud.

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud#:~:text=Your benefits can be reduced,times you've committed fraud.

2 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Seems that the information on the gov.uk website is not a clear cut as I thought. Apologises to @Mike Lister

 

With the information from @transam and @Pumpuynarak, it clearly shows that DWP, will fine, recalculate the pension and take any back over payment, from the state pension. No court is involved, with DWP issuing the penalties.

 

Below is @Pumpuynarak letter from DWP.

 

 

Thanks for posting that it is crystal clear if you are caught they will take action. Also looks like if they suspect you of not being truthful which multiple repeated false declarations would confirm, then they are going to go after the overpayment. Wise counsel would suggest that members who flout the rules should probably be circumspect about boasting the fact on an open forum, and should refrain from encouraging others that they won't be caught. Secondly, they should make provision by saving these overpayments just in case they are caught and need to repay them. Lastly, I would never talk about this to fellow expats at the bar, who could ultimately be the ones to whistle blow and dob you in. There are a lot of toxic farang in the LoS who would relish such a thing. Finally, in the absence of new tech that will be impossible to circumvent if you must do it take especial care to cover your tracks, that said I guess in the near future it will be impossible to game the system so you will be caught and will need to pay it back probably through pension deduction at source.

.

3 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

IMG_20200715_0001.pdf 853.73 kB · 11 downloads IMG_20200715_0002.pdf 824.06 kB · 9 downloads IMG_20200715_0004.pdf 638.6 kB · 9 downloads IMG_20200715_0003.pdf 521.77 kB · 10 downloads IMG_20200715_0005.pdf 960.11 kB · 10 downloads

If you don't mind sharing how did they catch you  ?

I know a bloke who fiddles the pension, claims cold weather payment and other benefits, yet his passport is full of Thai retirement extensions, I asked 'are you not worried about getting caught', he said, 'no, I can cover it with my collateral.' 😵

 

So there we have it, if you've loads of cash, and you think you will never get caught, it maybe a gamble worth taking..😎

3 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

I never got caught, i informed them of my change of address to Thailand but i was late in doing so, i was totally honest with them but they showed no mercy.

Just seen this that sounds a very harsh penalty for being honest.

1 minute ago, transam said:

I know a bloke who fiddles the pension, claims cold weather payment and other benefits, yet his passport is full of Thai retirement extensions, I asked 'are you not worried about getting caught', he said, 'no, I can cover it with my collateral.' 😵

 

So there we have it, if you've loads of cash, and you think you will never get caught, it maybe a gamble worth taking..😎

Agreed, or you can claim extreme poverty and probably end up with some small deduction monthly from your pension to pay it back.