Berkeley Lets Loose an Antisemitic Mob

[Bkk Brian]

Very dishonest to edit your post into a completely different statement once I had already replied:

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

OK, here's more. Was perhaps the entire event not a stunt to to create an inflammatory confrontation at a university on which they had to know there was intense anti Israeli sentiment at the current time?

 

Maybe that's why the protesters were so angry?

 

Then they get to cry the victim.

 

How did I do?

You done enough victim blaming for one day try it on someone else, it disgusts me

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

Oh dear, what an utterly embarrassing thing to write; did you actually think before posting that …. it might not be to late to delete it   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why should I ? He was a guest of the British Government at the Lancaster House talks for Independence, and I was a supporter of Zanu-PF through Zimbabwean friends. We saw him at a victory rally in a Manchester cinema, and what a night it was. What happened subsequently was a tragedy, but some of it was perfidy from the government in reneging on land rights.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You done enough victim blaming for one day try it on someone else, it disgusts me

 

I see no attempt to rebut my hypothesis. What should I infer from that?

 

 

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

I see no attempt to rebut my hypothesis. What should I infer from that?

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You done enough victim blaming for one day try it on someone else, it disgusts me

 

Edited March 3 by Bkk Brian

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Very dishonest to edit your post into a completely different statement once I had already replied:

 

Before I saw your reply. Otherwise I would not have edited it. Hard cheese. I am illiterate, yes.

 

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

 

 

Nothing about it being a deliberate provocation? No opinion about that?

[beautifulthailand99]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

 

I tell you what disgusts me the squashed body of a starving Palestinian after he had been run over by an Israeli tank whilst trying to find food and that image being shared by Zionists glorying in the horror. I will never get that out of my mind, or the bombed remnants of a child hanging from a fence. Keep clutching your pearls, the world ain't buying any more.

Edited March 3 by beautifulthailand99

[ozimoron]

On the possibility that this was a provocation, it seems incredulous to believe anything other than the reception this guy was going to get on a famously liberal university, perhaps the most liberal in the world. Of course, students at Berkeley aren't well known for activism. Much. The speaker is the mastermind behind Netanyahu's legal "reform" policy. Hardly gonna raise an eyebrow on a university.

 

The scheduled speaker, Ran Bar-Yoshafat, is the deputy director of the Kohelet Policy Forum, a conservative Jerusalem-based think tank heavily influential in Israeli national politics. One of his earliest jobs was as a legal advisor to the Knesset, Israel’s national legislature, according to his LinkedIn page.

The talk was jointly organized by several student groups, including Berkeley Tikvah and Bears for Israel, according to a web page for Tikvah.

 

https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/02/27/uc-berkeley-israeli-speaker-protest

 

Tikvah: The Zionist Voice on Campus is an independent grassroots student-led organization at UC Berkeley, founded in 2007, whose mission is to promote Zionism on campus and to educate the UC Berkeley community about Israel.

 

https://callink.berkeley.edu/organization/tikvahstudentsforisrael

 

Bears for Israel aims to be an inclusive, pro-active, and pro-Israel voice that promotes open dialogue on the UC Berkeley campus.

 

https://callink.berkeley.edu/organization/bearsforisrael

 

edit:

 

Of course the zionist and pro Israel groups have every right to stage this event. But they have to be very imperceptive not think this was the worst possible timing.

 

tl:dr;

 

I'll go hopping to hell if the groups staging that event weren't the most activist zionist individuals on campus.  Don't let them them claim victimhood. Typical far right political stunt.

 

edit: and the truly disgusting provocateur of racism and division leapt right on it, the Murdoch press.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[Eloquent pilgrim]

21 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I tell you what disgusts me the squashed body of a starving Palestinian after he had been run over by an Israeli tank whilst trying to find food and that image being shared by Zionists glorying in the horror. I will never get that out of my mind, or the bombed remnants of a child hanging from a fence. Keep clutching your pearls, the world ain't buying any more.

 

You have soon forgotten about the 240 dancing youngsters machine-gunned to death at a music festival on 7th October; you have soon forgotten about the innocent civilian women raped so violently that their pelvis’s were broken, and the babies that were beheaded or burnt alive. You have soon forgotten about the innocent pregnant Israeli woman whose stomach was cut open while she was still alive and her unborn child removed from her stomach and beheaded in front of her, before she, herself was beheaded … so take you phoney “I will never get that out of my mind” somewhere else, because you obviously have the ability to let things slip from your mind very easily.

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

21 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

You have soon forgotten about the 240 dancing youngsters machine-gunned to death at a music festival on 7th October; you have soon forgotten about the innocent civilian women raped so violently that their pelvis’s were broken, and the babies that were beheaded or burnt alive. You have soon forgotten about the innocent pregnant Israeli woman whose stomach was cut open while she was still alive and her unborn child removed from her stomach and beheaded in front of her, before she, herself was beheaded … so take you phoney “I will never get that out of my mind” somewhere else, because you obviously have the ability to let things slip from your mind very easily.

 

Not even a tip of the hat to the 20 odd thousand dead Palestinian civilians? While the terrorist massacre was indeed unspeakably horrific and should never be forgotten or forgiven, it is now a matter of history. What isn't history are the ongoing war crimes in gaza. Perhaps that's why one tends to focus more on current events?

 

But lets get back to the topic please.

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[jayboy]

8 hours ago, pegman said:

Tough to have much sympathy for these pro genocide zionist students when compared with what is happening in Palestine.

Tough to have much sympathy with this peculiar combination of ignorance, stupidity, racism and muddled thinking.

[Will B Good]

2 hours ago, 300sd said:

Yes. I'd be screaming, let the hostages go 

....far enough.....and that has what to do with the civilian population?

[Bkk Brian]

53 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I tell you what disgusts me the squashed body of a starving Palestinian after he had been run over by an Israeli tank whilst trying to find food and that image being shared by Zionists glorying in the horror. I will never get that out of my mind, or the bombed remnants of a child hanging from a fence. Keep clutching your pearls, the world ain't buying any more.

I guess that would disgust you but nothing to do with the topic or pearls

[jayboy]

22 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Not even a tip of the hat to the 20 odd thousand dead Palestinian civilians? While the terrorist massacre was indeed unspeakably horrific and should never be forgotten or forgiven, it is now a matter of history. What isn't history are the ongoing war crimes in gaza. Perhaps that's why one tends to focus more on current events?

 

This is like someone in 1945 saying saying the Pearl Harbour attack in 1941 was a very unfortunate event which cannot be excused - but that it is all in the past and we should concentrate on the sufferings of the Japanese population perpetrated by American genocidal maniacs.

 

This type of poster, not necessarily malevolent, curses the Israelis but never ever ventures to suggest what should have been the appropriate response to the Hamas crimes.

[Bkk Brian]

48 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

On the possibility that this was a provocation, it seems incredulous to believe anything other than the reception this guy was going to get on a famously liberal university, perhaps the most liberal in the world. Of course, students at Berkeley aren't well known for activism. Much. The speaker is the mastermind behind Netanyahu's legal "reform" policy. Hardly gonna raise an eyebrow on a university.

 

The scheduled speaker, Ran Bar-Yoshafat, is the deputy director of the Kohelet Policy Forum, a conservative Jerusalem-based think tank heavily influential in Israeli national politics. One of his earliest jobs was as a legal advisor to the Knesset, Israel’s national legislature, according to his LinkedIn page.

The talk was jointly organized by several student groups, including Berkeley Tikvah and Bears for Israel, according to a web page for Tikvah.

 

https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/02/27/uc-berkeley-israeli-speaker-protest

 

Tikvah: The Zionist Voice on Campus is an independent grassroots student-led organization at UC Berkeley, founded in 2007, whose mission is to promote Zionism on campus and to educate the UC Berkeley community about Israel.

 

https://callink.berkeley.edu/organization/tikvahstudentsforisrael

 

Bears for Israel aims to be an inclusive, pro-active, and pro-Israel voice that promotes open dialogue on the UC Berkeley campus.

 

https://callink.berkeley.edu/organization/bearsforisrael

 

edit:

 

Of course the zionist and pro Israel groups have every right to stage this event. But they have to be very imperceptive not think this was the worst possible timing.

 

tl:dr;

 

I'll go hopping to hell if the groups staging that event weren't the most activist zionist individuals on campus.  Don't let them them claim victimhood. Typical far right political stunt.

 

edit: and the truly disgusting provocateur of racism and division leapt right on it, the Murdoch press.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Victim blaming and messenger blaming, the whole works, anything to deflect from what actually happened as described and evidenced by those there.

[ozimoron]

24 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

This is like someone in 1945 saying saying the Pearl Harbour attack in 1941 was a very unfortunate event which cannot be excused - but that it is all in the past and we should concentrate on the sufferings of the Japanese population perpetrated by American genocidal maniacs.

 

This type of poster, not necessarily malevolent, curses the Israelis but never ever ventures to suggest what should have been the appropriate response to the Hamas crimes.

 

Had I been alive in WW2 that would have been my position exactly. All of my life I have considered the bombing London, Dresden and Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the firebombing of Tokyo to be war crimes.

 

The appropriate reaction to the Hamas crimes should have been to go to the ICJ and ICC and to attempt to apprehend and prosecute as many as possible without any loss to c!vilian life. That should have been the playbook, not massive indiscriminate bombing of every Palestinian in sight. 

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[jayboy]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The appropriate reaction to the Hamas crimes should have been to go to the ICJ and ICC and to attempt to apprehend and prosecute as many as possible without any loss to c!vilian life.

 

Your proposed "solution" would not solve anything as well you know. It seems you are a pacifist, a perfectly honourable position but not mine.

[beautifulthailand99]

This sort of nonsense does a disfavour to all the victims of Nazism and reveals a real weakness in the modern psyche to imagined horrors. Well, Israel needs fresh blood for all the real estate they are flattening in their rage, and if you're under 40 the IDF can use your talents.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/antisemitism-uk-london-israel-b2501340.html

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Victim blaming and messenger blaming, the whole works, anything to deflect from what actually happened as described and evidenced by those there.

Sounds like you have swallowed a woke dictionary without the Palestinian add-on that goes with it.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Sounds like you have swallowed a woke dictionary without the Palestinian add-on that goes with it.

Confirmation you have nothing but off topic deflection

[ozimoron]

50 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Your proposed "solution" would not solve anything as well you know. It seems you are a pacifist, a perfectly honourable position but not mine.

 

How about coming up with an argument why Hamas wouldn't be driven to a peace treaty by the guarantee of a sovereign state including the illegal settlements and a multinational peacekeeping force. Maybe just chuck in a few billion for reconstruction as a mea culpa. If you think Israel comes out of this unharmed you're delusional. Hamas would have to give up its leaders as well IF the Israelis did as well. Fair's fair. I don;'t think either Netanyahu or Galant come out of this without war crimes indictments either, but not part of the initial deal presumably. That said the ICJ did order the prosecution of the perps for statements amounting to racist incitement to genocide and they presumably include both of those.

 

 

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

Had I been alive in WW2 that would have been my position exactly. All of my life I have considered the bombing London, Dresden and Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the firebombing of Tokyo to be war crimes.

 

The appropriate reaction to the Hamas crimes should have been to go to the ICJ and ICC and to attempt to apprehend and prosecute as many as possible without any loss to c!vilian life. That should have been the playbook, not massive indiscriminate bombing of every Palestinian in sight. 

Spot on my friend. And since most Hamas devotees no longer have a problem with martyrdom, Israel's savage response has played into their carefully laid trap. In the coming decades, there will be no turning back for Israel, abandoned by many friends outraged and disgusted by their pitiless bombing of the most densely populated place on the planet. Couple that with a burgeoning non-working Orthodox growing constituency with large families existing on welfare and increasing numbers of young diasporic Jews rejecting Zionism and a reverse migration from the state, the days of Exodus idealism and communitarian kibbutzes will be long gone only to be replaced a murderous, increasingly authoritarian ethno-fascist state. You can add to that 100s of thousands of murderous Palestinian intent on revenge who can and will try to enact that at some point. Violence just begets violence and generational no justice means no peace.

 

Israel have created their very own Taliban who won't even fight for their country.

 

When Israel was founded, 3% of Israelis were Haredi. Today the figure is 13%, 18% of 18-year-olds and almost a quarter of newborns. As Haredi education expands in both numbers and per-student funding, the very existence of an independent school system tailor-made for insularity has begun to reshape how other Israelis think of the education system, which is already divided by religion and language.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-new-state-budget-favors-haredim-and-hurts-them/

Edited March 3 by beautifulthailand99

[Dolf]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Had I been alive in WW2 that would have been my position exactly. All of my life I have considered the bombing London, Dresden and Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the firebombing of Tokyo to be war crimes.

 

The appropriate reaction to the Hamas crimes should have been to go to the ICJ and ICC and to attempt to apprehend and prosecute as many as possible without any loss to c!vilian life. That should have been the playbook, not massive indiscriminate bombing of every Palestinian in sight. 

So you spent your entire life worrying about wars? You need to get out more.

[Dolf]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

most densely populated place on the planet.

Manila has the highest population density. Given you get basic facts wrong we can only assume the rest is wrong too.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Dolf said:

What makes a person successful? Whining in the internet about stuff that is of no concern to them?

I'd explain it but I doubt I could do so successfully to anyone that thinks being rich equals successful.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Dolf said:

So you spent your entire life worrying about wars? You need to get out more.

He didn't say that. You need to read more carefully.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Dolf said:

Manila has the highest population density. Given you get basic facts wrong we can only assume the rest is wrong too.

Nonsense. IMO it's universally accepted that Gaza is the most densely populated place, and if that's not factually true is irrelevant to the narrative of a captive population oppressed by an israeli blockade for decades.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

This is like someone in 1945 saying saying the Pearl Harbour attack in 1941 was a very unfortunate event which cannot be excused - but that it is all in the past and we should concentrate on the sufferings of the Japanese population perpetrated by American genocidal maniacs.

 

This type of poster, not necessarily malevolent, curses the Israelis but never ever ventures to suggest what should have been the appropriate response to the Hamas crimes.

That's a nonsense equivalence. The sufferings of the Japanese people caused by the American attacks ceased entirely after they surrendered. The Gazans are already conquered and blockaded, and the illegal collective punishment continues anyway.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

You have soon forgotten about the 240 dancing youngsters machine-gunned to death at a music festival on 7th October; you have soon forgotten about the innocent civilian women raped so violently that their pelvis’s were broken, and the babies that were beheaded or burnt alive. You have soon forgotten about the innocent pregnant Israeli woman whose stomach was cut open while she was still alive and her unborn child removed from her stomach and beheaded in front of her, before she, herself was beheaded … so take you phoney “I will never get that out of my mind” somewhere else, because you obviously have the ability to let things slip from your mind very easily.

 

 

 

For every atrocity you mention I'll give you a thousand and more children blown up or left to die buried in the rubble of their house.

How many dead children will it take to assuage your blood lust?