bank was no longer accepting new accts from AMERICANS,

[eisfeld]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Again, no Thai Bank as such (meaning entire Bank corporation) has a policy of refusing Americans.

 

This is being done on an ad hoc basis by some branches  or even just some bank staff because they are unwilling or afraid  to deal with a new (simple, short, and filled out by the customer) form.

 

Try a different bank or call the bank HQ number and have them explain it to the staff.

 

There are no explicit policies yes. But there are informal internal guidelines which can vary between branches. These are not hard rules, they will accept americans if they want to. I learned that from speaking to account executives at various banks. This isn't even a Thailand specific thing. And I am not talking about the W-8 BEN form. That's standard and no big deal.

[foreverlomsak]

5 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

20 hours ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

And give up the pension? Pass!

And more importantly your passport?

[gamb00ler]

7 hours ago, Dan O said:

When you renounce your citizenship you forfit your US benefits and for tax purposes and must pay taxes on market value of financial investments. it doesn't mean you can't buy property or own financial investments but by renouncing citizenship you can not benefit tax wise from that action.

A USA.GOV page disagrees with you about SS payments being ended upon renunciation of US citizenship.

 

https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship

[Kenny202]

20 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Just closed my account with them after 18 years, once the stopped their website i'd had enough!

The closing of websites and companies pushing you to use their phone apps I am sure is so they can bombard you with their advertisements every day. I just bought a smart TV, major brand and part of the set up was registering and setting up the TV through the app. Added 30 minutes onto the installation and in the end had no bearing on the set up of the TV at all, nor can the app control the TV in anyway. I deleted the app but they have my emails address and am bombarded with Spam everyday. Some of the large supermarkets not to mention the phone companies are doing exactly the same thing. I guess it is cheap advertising for them though I doubt anyone ever reads their messages / emails. That all seemed to start during Covid when no one was paying attention, and you had to register at malls, track your movements etc, not that I ever gave them genuine details.

[brianthainess]

22 hours ago, khunbillmex said:

The bank officer was unsure if this was an all Thai banks policy, said that she heard that there were some banks in Bangkok still taking new accts.

Even bank managers, don't know/understand there own rules .

Sorry Slight of topic; but when my friend wanted to open a Bank account with just his thumbprint (which can be done) as he had lost all use of his arms and hands (MND), the stupid uneducated unfeeling manager, told him to go home and practice writing his name. 

    and treated him like a child as if he was a 'slow learner'. I felt like punching him.

[ftpjtm]

I heard of this same issue at least 10 years ago when first looking into long term visas in Thailand, it's not anything new.

 

I personally walked into both KTB and BKB offices in downtown Pattaya and had no problem opening accounts in either bank holding a Non-O visa. Both printed and completed a US Government form upon activation of the account, and where seemingly very knowledgeable about dealing with US citizens. 

 

This was 5 and 3 years ago respectively, but a friend of mine used a visa agent in Pattaya to assist with his retirement extension. They offered a lower cost to do that if he had an account with a certain bank, and accompanied him to the bank branch to set up the account. This was only a few months ago.

 

My suggestion would be to go to Bangkok or Pattaya, where there are more foreigners living and they're more familiar with the additional regulations. It's possibly easier to open an account in those locations. Or ask a visa agency for assistance. 

[Sheryl]

41 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 I am not talking about the W-8 BEN form. That's standard and no big deal.

 

W-8 BEN us for non US citizens. I don't see how that would come into it.

 

At branch level, what is AFAIK required for a US citizens or resudents  to open an account is just standard form listing your SSN or TIN.

 

Which in my experience Thai bank staff are often terrified of. I spent over an hour arguing with one who was convinced I had failed to fill it out correctly because I filled out the SSN section keaving TIN part blank. 

 

AFAIK this is the only additional thing they are asked to collect at branch level.

 

 

Other requirements for reporting come in at higher levels (and likely automated). 

[thesetat]

20 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Navy Federal.  Can open an account from Thailand, use Thai address, have cards shipped to your local address, offers no balance transfer fee 0%-12 months credit cards.  Currently has 5% APR CD's.

 

https://www.navyfederal.org/

 

 

Navy federal is not backed by the fdic. so if you lose your money the government will not intevene

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, thesetat said:

Navy federal is not backed by the fdic. so if you lose your money the government will not intevene

 

The googles is a thing, just takes a second to check....

 

The National Credit Union Administration (NCUA) insures credit unions, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) insures banks.

 

The NCUA, much like the FDIC, is an independent federal agency. It’s charged with chartering and regulating federal credit unions in addition to insuring deposits at federal credit unions and administering the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

Tried the branch again last week, to be told that Thai's can have numerous accounts linked in the app but foreigners can only have one account, said she would try to get HQ to authorize the addition of the second.

 

That seems to be the branch manager telling you something, anything, to get you out of the office.

 

I normally use the website, but logged onto the app just now to check.  All my accounts at Bangkok Bank are visible on the app, two at different branches in Bangkok, three at one branch in Korat, and my mutual fund account.

 

I added the three new accounts online, not using the app.  Maybe give that a shot.

 

 

[retarius]

22 hours ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

NOT true, you have to file a tax return every year for 10 years after you renounce. 

[NoDisplayName]

17 minutes ago, retarius said:

NOT true, you have to file a tax return every year for 10 years after you renounce. 

 

I believe that provision was only in effect for a few years and died in 2008.

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

A USA.GOV page disagrees with you about SS payments being ended upon renunciation of US citizenship.

 

https://www.usa.gov/renounce-lose-citizenship

you lose access to a variety of govt benefits that aren't SS payments also lose tax protections under DTA and lose easy access to medicaid or medicare coverage for health issues, and tax exemptions and subsidies. When you lose your passport that includes and any existing associated visa\permissions to stay until you establish citizenship in another country, your considered stateless which doesnt fly in living abroad. Its not an easy clean process as some may think and all the answers and impacts are not listed in a singular point of access. 

 

[uncletiger]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

The googles is a thing, just takes a second to check....

 

The National Credit Union Administration (NCUA) insures credit unions, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) insures banks.

 

The NCUA, much like the FDIC, is an independent federal agency. It’s charged with chartering and regulating federal credit unions in addition to insuring deposits at federal credit unions and administering the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund.

 

One big difference between FDIC and NCUSIF is that NCUSIF insures savings accounts only where as FDIC will also insure checking accounts.  They're both likely to need a bailout by the Fed anyway once the banking crisis gets going in earnest, and I suspect we're going to see the start of it next month.  Now is definitely not the time I'd want to be opening a bank account in a small bank or credit union in the US. Just because your money is insured doesn't mean you will be able to access it immediately in the event your bank becomes insolvent.

[JimTripper]

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

When you lose your passport that includes and any existing associated visa\permissions to stay until you establish citizenship in another country, your considered stateless which doesnt fly in living abroad. Its not an easy clean process as some may think.

 

What happens if you renounce citizenship, become stateless and can't be deported back to your native country? Do you just rot in jail in the country you happen to be in?

 

Or, do you have to establish residence in another country before you renounce?

[Dan O]

3 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

 

What happens is you renounce citizenship, become stateless and can't be deported back to your native country?

 

Do you just rot in jail in the country you happen to be in?

No idea what happens but that is a caution provided by the US govt that if you renounce your citizenship you need to have a country supplying you citizenship or permanent residency agreement or you end up in limbo and the USA can no longer support you.

[RocketDog]

On 3/6/2024 at 6:24 PM, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

All you need then is another passport.

Without one you can't even leave the USA.

[khunjeff]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:49 PM, uncletiger said:

One big difference between FDIC and NCUSIF is that NCUSIF insures savings accounts only where as FDIC will also insure checking accounts. 

 

"All deposits at federally insured credit unions are protected by the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund, with deposits insured up to at least $250,000 per individual depositor."

 

https://ncua.gov/newsroom/press-release/2020/deposits-are-safe-federally-insured-credit-unions

[NoDisplayName]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:49 PM, uncletiger said:

 

One big difference between FDIC and NCUSIF is that NCUSIF insures savings accounts only where as FDIC will also insure checking accounts.  They're both likely to need a bailout by the Fed anyway once the banking crisis gets going in earnest, and I suspect we're going to see the start of it next month.  Now is definitely not the time I'd want to be opening a bank account in a small bank or credit union in the US. Just because your money is insured doesn't mean you will be able to access it immediately in the event your bank becomes insolvent.

 

Small credit union?

 

Quote

Navy Federal is the largest credit union in the country. It has more than 300 branches (which rivals one or two of the biggest banks in the U.S.), mainly in the Northeast, and more than 12 million members, totaling $144 billion in deposits.

 

Be afraid?

[NoDisplayName]

On 3/7/2024 at 8:57 PM, JimTripper said:

 

What happens if you renounce citizenship, become stateless and can't be deported back to your native country? Do you just rot in jail in the country you happen to be in?

 

Or, do you have to establish residence in another country before you renounce?

 

That is highly recommended by the state department.

 

Technically, one is permitted to relinquish citizenship and become stateless.  I'm not aware of anyone that's done it recently, as in the past century.

 

It's not permitted within the USA or territories, and would probably be disallowed overseas, as that would likely put the newly stateless person in violation of immigration law in whichever country they are currently located.

[Skeptic7]

FACTA requirements of Thai banks. They would rather not. 

[fceligoj]

Too many cheats.  Every American is required to report on their Form 1040 if they have ANY FOREIGN INVESTMENTS, by ticking the "FATCA" block, even it is less then $10,000 USD.  Since so many don't, the US IRS is forcing foreign banks to police those accounts and report to IRS.  This does translate into unprofitable costs to the banks.

[Roo Island]

4 minutes ago, fceligoj said:

Too many cheats.  Every American is required to report on their Form 1040 if they have ANY FOREIGN INVESTMENTS, by ticking the "FATCA" block, even it is less then $10,000 USD.  Since so many don't, the US IRS is forcing foreign banks to police those accounts and report to IRS.  This does translate into unprofitable costs to the banks.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/fatca-information-for-individuals

 

Under FATCA, certain U.S. taxpayers holding financial assets outside the United States must report those assets to the IRS generally using Form 8938, Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets. The aggregate value of these assets must exceed $50,000 to be reportable, in general, but in some cases, the threshold may be higher.

 

Maybe you were thinking of FBAR?

 

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

 

A U.S. person, including a citizen, resident, corporation, partnership, limited liability company, trust and estate, must file an FBAR to report:     

 

a financial interest in or signature or other authority over at least one financial account located outside the United States if    

 

the aggregate value of those foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported.

[sandyf]

Many answers here.

 

https://www.quora.com/What-problems-do-FATCA-and-citizenship-based-taxation-cause-for-Americans-living-abroad

[donmuang37]

On 3/6/2024 at 4:41 PM, khunbillmex said:

 

In preparation for Direct Deposit of US Veterans benifits e went to our bank here in khon kaen where we have 4 accts to open a new one for the DD only to find that the bank was no longer accepting new accts from     AMERICANS, **  Have you heard  of this from other Vets here in Thailand. The bank officer was unsure if this was an all Thai banks policy, said that she heard that there were some banks in Bangkok still taking new accts.  Also I assume the DD can't go into a Joint acct for obvious reasons. How much else can go wrong? I have certainly had a year of it.

We'll be checking with other banks but it doesn't seem hopeful,

we didn't aask whenthis ce  in effectbut it seemed the officer was quite familiar with the policy

this was at TTB bank

You can thank Barack Obama for that.

March 18, 2010: FATCA Signed

President Barack Obama signs the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) into law – buried inside a domestic jobs bill known as the “HIRE Act.” No major media organizations reported this at the time, but FATCA would eventually change everything for Americans resident outside of the U.S.

Because FATCA requires non-U.S. financial institutions to report to the U.S. authorities the names and taxpayer-identification numbers of all their “U.S. person” clients, it has provided the U.S. authorities with a detailed list of those who might be expected to file FBARs.

[JimGant]

On 3/10/2024 at 8:37 AM, fceligoj said:

Too many cheats.  Every American is required to report on their Form 1040 if they have ANY FOREIGN INVESTMENTS, by ticking the "FATCA" block, even it is less then $10,000 USD.  Since so many don't, the US IRS is forcing foreign banks to police those accounts and report to IRS.  This does translate into unprofitable costs to the banks.

 

Under FATCA, banks are only required to report on "US persons" with $50,000 or more in their account(s) at the end of the year. Thus, I would say, very few "US persons" are being reported to Treasury Dept. And now with CRS coming to Thailand, Thai banks will no longer just have FATCA to curse for burdensome reporting requirements.

[cambion]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:25 AM, NoDisplayName said:

 

That is highly recommended by the state department.

 

Technically, one is permitted to relinquish citizenship and become stateless.  I'm not aware of anyone that's done it recently, as in the past century.

 

It's not permitted within the USA or territories, and would probably be disallowed overseas, as that would likely put the newly stateless person in violation of immigration law in whichever country they are currently located.

 

Actually, the most recent example that I can think of is Mike Gogulski, who did this in Dec 2008 (so almost 2009). But he married a Slovak and obtained permanent residence in Slovakia before he did that, and has a travel document issued by them afterwards (though he mostly travels throughout Schengen, which doesn't require a passport or similar travel document like a Document/Certificate of Identity to move around). Obviously, if you have permanent residence in a country, then you probably are not in violation of its immigration law.

Or, perhaps you meant folks who renounced without getting permanent residence somewhere else first - i.e. folks who renounce in the most insecure way possible. That leads me to the below.

 

On 3/7/2024 at 9:57 AM, JimTripper said:

 

What happens if you renounce citizenship, become stateless and can't be deported back to your native country? Do you just rot in jail in the country you happen to be in?

 

Or, do you have to establish residence in another country before you renounce?

 

This is an interesting point. I only know of two examples of this, where renouncement of U.S. citizenship occurred without residence being secured in another country first: Garry Davis (see below) and Davis's inspiration, Henry Martyn Noel.

And I'm not sure that Noel counts: from his Wikipedia page it seems like he was able to legally work in Germany at the time he renounced, so maybe he stayed on a work permit (already had residence secured) and was able to maintain that somehow. (Noel eventually married a EU citizen which would allow him to make his residency status in Europe more permanent.)

In any case, both renounced in the late 1940s, shortly after the end of WWII. That's not quite a full century away yet - but it certainly feels that way. No question that the international environment and understanding of borders was very different back then.

On 3/7/2024 at 10:04 AM, Dan O said:

No idea what happens but that is a caution provided by the US govt that if you renounce your citizenship you need to have a country supplying you citizenship or permanent residency agreement or you end up in limbo and the USA can no longer support you.

In fact we know exactly what might happen in this case because of two, maybe three, famous examples:

Garry Davis of the World Service Authority, Joel Laverne Slater (b. April 30, 1960), and maybe Thomas Glenn Jolley (b. January 26, 1944). Jolley is a maybe because he actually had permanent residence in Canada when he renounced, but later left Canada long enough to lost it. Canada refused to accept Jolley back because of this, and stayed in the US for the rest of his life.

Slater is similar - he thought he had locked in permanent residence in Australia via a marriage but ended up either not formally getting it (or else he had it briefly before losing it). Australia deported him back to the US, which accepted him.

Garry Davis tried to travel all over the world without the citizenship of any nation, and even wrote a book about it (My Country is the World). Spoilers; most of the time he ended up back in the US in the end, either being granted an immigrant visa or being accepted under humanitarian parole.

It's worth noting that in all these cases, the person was born in the US and never had any other citizenship, so if this doesn't apply then one might speculate that the US might try to shove responsibility to some other country (the other one you were a former citizen of, or the one you were born in, whichever applies).

On 3/8/2024 at 3:50 AM, RocketDog said:

All you need then is another passport.

Without one you can't even leave the USA.

If you somehow ended up stateless in the USA but on an immigrant visa (as Garry Davis wrote in his book, this happened to him multiple times), you qualify for a U.S. re-entry permit. This will allow you to apply for visas to travel.

The main thing here is that the country you travel to wants to know that the country you came in from originally will take you back, and pay your way back if you refuse to go. Stateless refugees (and in fact probably almost all refugees) don't have this, but if you are a stateless person who has permanent residence in a country, you can usually obtain an Alien's Passport or Certificate/Document of Identity which will allow you to try to apply for visas and travel.

Even if you were a stateless person who didn't have permanent residence in the country that you lived in, most countries - specifically those who signed onto the 1954 Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons - would obey Article 27 and issue you the above kind of travel document. So getting the travel document might not be the hard part - getting visas to travel elsewhere would be. That said, it's worth nothing that the USA never signed onto this convention. On the other hand, in the most recent case I can find of a stateless former US citizen getting deported back to the US - Slater - US citizenship was restored. (Garry Davis actually got this offer multiple times as well - which he wrote about - but unlike Slater he always declined.)

Honourable mention also goes to Vincent Cate (b. 1963) who renounced US citizenship in 1998. Obviously though he thinking along the same lines as you - that he'd need some other passport to travel around. Supposedly he got a passport from Mozambique for $5,000 USD. It's hard to research this because Mozambique had a new constitution promulgated in 2004, which basically changed up all the rules, but it's hard for me to understand how Cate's new passport would have been legitimate. So I figure that it wasn't, and he was in fact actually stateless, but able to pretend otherwise and use that passport for travel and things (as long no one took too close of a good look at his situation). Also worth nothing that I don't see that he ever tried to renew that passport, instead arranging to naturalize in Anguilla about 10 years later - which is the validity of most adult passports.)

[bigt3116]

On 3/7/2024 at 1:09 AM, eisfeld said:

Common Reporting System

 

I think Thailand is fully in the Common Reporting Standard

 

"The nation fully embraced the Common Reporting Standard (CRS) by 1 January 2022"

[JohnnyBD]

I just opened an acct with SCB about 10 days ago in Bangkok at the Phrom Phong branch. I'm an American. No problems. 

[Presnock]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:20 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

Navy Federal.  Can open an account from Thailand, use Thai address, have cards shipped to your local address, offers no balance transfer fee 0%-12 months credit cards.  Currently has 5% APR CD's.

 

https://www.navyfederal.org/

 

 

Also, State Department Federal Credit Union (SDFCU.org) will also open accts for those without a US address.  One doesn't need to be an employee of the bank nor the govt.  Easy to do, when my BOA account was closed 5 years ago, (after 50 years a member) I joined the SDFCU, credit cards (various benefits for different cards) , etc.  For 5 years has been very helpful and no problems.