Kiwi brothers deny all charges, their parents speak out - Tim Newton Today - March 19

[IndomitableSpirit]

The father probably has something to do with why his 36 & 38 years old sons think they can get away with anything in life. 

[Dolf]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yet here you are involved in discussions about what people think...   

 

 

You think talk on here matters 

[scubascuba3]

I can see a movie, Dumb and Dumber go to Thailand

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

But it may well have saved their lives... 

I suggest they risked lives, because of their actions 2 shots were released. 

They also took  his phone off him, was that a threat to their lives too?

 

Usually easier to stand quietly, be polite, and discreetly offer to pay now! 

 

[Dolf]

10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I suggest they risked lives, because of their actions 2 shots were released. 

They also took  his phone off him, was that a threat to their lives too?

 

Usually easier to stand quietly, be polite, and discreetly offer to pay now! 

 

Two arrogant Kiwis. Amazing people on here defend them.

[Freddy42OZ]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:42 PM, tgw said:

 

The short video shows two men restraining a cop and wringing his weapon from him without hitting him.

To me it looks like they wanted the weapon to be out of the cop's reach until his colleagues arrived.

But it's a short video and I might be wrong.

 

But so far we only heard the cop's version of events.

 

And yes, there is no assault in a self-defense situation.

 

 

If a policeman tells you to do something you do it.  You don't question his authority.  

This is the problem with some people these days, they have no respect for the law or for authority.  

To suggest that they needed to defend themselves is absolute nonsense, there is no way the cop would have shot them.  So either they have watched too many movies where police fire willy nilly at people or they are pathologically guilty and so afraid of the police that they think they should be shot at. 

 

[kwilco]

Seems this I cudent highlights the use or misuse of video evidence and the police's use of firearms

[lennois]

They obviously thought they were being attacked as the brother standing there said so. Can't imagine he was such a criminal Mastermind as to say that just to bolster their impending case.

 

The cop is very lucky indeed they had zero intention to harm him.

 

Maybe the cop discharged his weapon accidentally while drawing it. Who knows

 

The baying lynch mob on here needs to wait for the actual video of what happened before and after the suspiciously cut video (if it is ever released)

 

 

[kwilco]

20 minutes ago, lennois said:

They obviously thought they were being attacked as the brother standing there said so. Can't imagine he was such a criminal Mastermind as to say that just to bolster their impending case.

 

The cop is very lucky indeed they had zero intention to harm him.

 

Maybe the cop discharged his weapon accidentally while drawing it. Who knows

 

The baying lynch mob on here needs to wait for the actual video of what happened before and after the suspiciously cut video (if it is ever released)

 

 

There is unlikely to be a video covering the build up and aftermath. Anyhow the concept of evidence may be very loose when it involves the public image of a police officer. 

Edited March 21 by kwilco

[Hellfire]

1 hour ago, lennois said:

They obviously thought they were being attacked as the brother standing there said so. Can't imagine he was such a criminal Mastermind as to say that just to bolster their impending case.

 

The cop is very lucky indeed they had zero intention to harm him.

 

Maybe the cop discharged his weapon accidentally while drawing it. Who knows

 

The baying lynch mob on here needs to wait for the actual video of what happened before and after the suspiciously cut video (if it is ever released)

 

 

 We will continue to wait indefinitely for a comprehensive explanation and genuine footage. It's been four days, yet neither the brothers nor their family have stepped forward to provide any justification for their actions. Not a single argument has surfaced to alleviate their situation. It's highly likely that the brothers will face significant time in a Thai prison. Any speculation about secret videos or undisclosed facts won't absolve them of their foolish behavior.

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, Hellfire said:

 We will continue to wait indefinitely for a comprehensive explanation and genuine footage. It's been four days, yet neither the brothers nor their family have stepped forward to provide any justification for their actions. Not a single argument has surfaced to alleviate their situation. It's highly likely that the brothers will face significant time in a Thai prison. Any speculation about secret videos or undisclosed facts won't absolve them of their foolish behavior.

Sounded OK until the end when you spoil it all with a baseless assumption.

What the matter with people? Are they incapable of critical thinking?

[Bundooman]

On 3/19/2024 at 11:39 AM, tgw said:

Everyone should watch the video before commenting:

 

The video looks like the two disarmed the cop and waited for the police to arrive, they absolutely don't look like they were assaulting the cop.

 

I think it's fair to listen to their side of the story.

 

Cops or soldiers pulling out guns, even shooting in the air and behaving erratically is common in Thailand.

 

Also, I wonder how the car chase looked and what happened then, knowing what actions are usually taken by cops here, the car chase may well be characterized as attempted murder if the cop tried to ram their scooter.

 

Speculations, let's wait to hear their side of the story.

Everybody did watch the video and saw what you seem to have missed. It's no good you trying to downplay the entire incident - they were in the wrong.

Tell you what - why don't you try it and see what everyone can see........... go on - rise out of your armchair and try it!

[kwilco]

33 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

Everybody did watch the video and saw what you seem to have missed

such a pity that you don't understand how to analyse what you see..

 

 

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Bundooman said:

Everybody did watch the video and saw what you seem to have missed. It's no good you trying to downplay the entire incident - they were in the wrong.

Tell you what - why don't you try it and see what everyone can see........... go on - rise out of your armchair and try it!

 

We simply know too little to make a judgement about what happened.

The video does not support the assault story, especially considering the photos taken just after a couple of backup cops arrived, the guys just stand around the motorcyles, the police too. if the guys were dangerous, they would have their face in the dirt, a cop's knee in the ribs and bracelets.

Instead it looks like they stand around the bikes and are talking.

an assault would not result in that photograph.

 

There's certainly more to this story than meets the eye at this point.

What would you think if the cop fired in the air first, and then put the gun to one of the guys' head while shouting "I kill you" "I kill you" and making crazy Al-Kaida eyes?

Would we have a case of self-defense then ?

 

Another hint that there is more to the story is how slowly this case moves forward.

Edited March 21 by tgw

[Smokin Joe]

47 minutes ago, tgw said:

Another hint that there is more to the story is how slowly this case moves forward.

 

The incident took place march 16th, five days ago. Just how fast does the legal system work in your country.

[tgw]

16 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

The incident took place march 16th, five days ago. Just how fast does the legal system work in your country.

 

compare with other similar incidents in Thailand and how many people usually talk about the events.

[lordgrinz]

4 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

compare with other similar incidents in Thailand and how many people usually talk about the events.

 

Aren't they on a typical 12 day hold? Even those can be extended out several times. 

[tgw]

20 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Aren't they on a typical 12 day hold? Even those can be extended out several times. 

didn't deter the governor...

[Sig]

On 3/18/2024 at 11:13 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Does the NZ drivers license have an enforcement for Motorcycles ???...

 

... If not, then the guys did not have the correct license and would have been fined for that...

Which is very common in Thailand and probably the very reason the BiB wanted to stop the tourists ? (as they know most tourists wont have the correct license and thus, its a money spinner). 

 

Thats no excuse for the NZ guys to flee of course...  But.. did they flee ???

Did they know the Policemen wanted to pull them over ?

How clear were the instructions from the BiB to pull over / stop ?

Or... Did the NZ Guys see the instruction to stop and just thought eff that, I'm not stopping for this shakedown ?

 

 

On 3/18/2024 at 11:13 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

You ask a lot of questions none of us can answer. I answer about the license in my previous but one post

I think that's exactly his point... Nobody in the forum can answer many questions, let alone about them defending themselves from an abusive cop, who from what it sounds like according to them, had his weapon out on them. Who knows what really happened. I've been on the end of "witnesses" who were testifying to nonsense, claiming they saw things that was physically impossible for them to see. Very possible that "witnesses" saw the tussle with the cop, but did not see what led up to it nor exactly all of what happened during it, but jump to all sorts of conclusions and say they "saw everything", and are themselves convinced that they did. People in this forum are nuts coming to conclusions based from a news article or even a video that shows only a part of an event. Just wait until they find themselves in a situation where the facts are not reported accurately and political officials are pronouncing them guilty in the media before full facts are presented. The foreigner in this video is just as nuts IMO. He says he's fine with the Governor making the statements that he did!? He is prejudicing the case! It is insanely irresponsible for a political official to make such statements.

Two grown men with apparently respectable families and respectable jobs and who are not apparently thugs are suddenly thugs doing grotesquely irresponsible things? Anything is possible, of course. But from appearances, it seems like something made these guys react in the way they did and we don't know what it was. And I don't think we ever will. Who in their right mind thinks this cop will tell the truth about what happened??? Not gonna happen. And how believable is the testimony of the brothers? That is also questionable. Being that police practicing what this cop was, are widely known to be corrupt, I'd be more inclined to believe the brothers, although not easily. I can't imagine doing what they did, almost no matter what the cop may have done. How on earth can you win against corrupt cops in a corrupt system that, on top of all that, is xenophobic!? If a cop is going to abuse you, then you need to do whatever you can to comply and deescalate IMO. Of course, there can be extreme and highly unusual exceptions.

These guys are likely as screwed as screwed can get, regardless of whether they are guilty or innocent.

[Harsh Jones]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:06 PM, EVENKEEL said:

When a Thai commits a crime they somehow always confess. Bet the police aren't used to dealing with a plea of innocent.

I knew some would be defending this vile dross

[thaibeachlovers]

54 minutes ago, Sig said:

 

I think that's exactly his point... Nobody in the forum can answer many questions, let alone about them defending themselves from an abusive cop, who from what it sounds like according to them, had his weapon out on them. Who knows what really happened. I've been on the end of "witnesses" who were testifying to nonsense, claiming they saw things that was physically impossible for them to see. Very possible that "witnesses" saw the tussle with the cop, but did not see what led up to it nor exactly all of what happened during it, but jump to all sorts of conclusions and say they "saw everything", and are themselves convinced that they did. People in this forum are nuts coming to conclusions based from a news article or even a video that shows only a part of an event. Just wait until they find themselves in a situation where the facts are not reported accurately and political officials are pronouncing them guilty in the media before full facts are presented. The foreigner in this video is just as nuts IMO. He says he's fine with the Governor making the statements that he did!? He is prejudicing the case! It is insanely irresponsible for a political official to make such statements.

Two grown men with apparently respectable families and respectable jobs and who are not apparently thugs are suddenly thugs doing grotesquely irresponsible things? Anything is possible, of course. But from appearances, it seems like something made these guys react in the way they did and we don't know what it was. And I don't think we ever will. Who in their right mind thinks this cop will tell the truth about what happened??? Not gonna happen. And how believable is the testimony of the brothers? That is also questionable. Being that police practicing what this cop was, are widely known to be corrupt, I'd be more inclined to believe the brothers, although not easily. I can't imagine doing what they did, almost no matter what the cop may have done. How on earth can you win against corrupt cops in a corrupt system that, on top of all that, is xenophobic!? If a cop is going to abuse you, then you need to do whatever you can to comply and deescalate IMO. Of course, there can be extreme and highly unusual exceptions.

These guys are likely as screwed as screwed can get, regardless of whether they are guilty or innocent.

Of course I agree with you, but that's not the point here.

The only point of relevance is that one does not go to a foreign country where one does not have a clue about how it works, and assault a cop, for any reason short of actually being in fear for one's life. No matter how corrupt a cop may be in LOS, they don't go around shooting tourists for no reason, and certainly not in public where everyone has a phone with a camera.

If they evaded a traffic stop, and were pursued by a cop, who understandably may have been a bit "annoyed", the correct response when actually stopped isn't to attack the cop and take his gun away.

 

Given the cop has lost face, which means a great deal in LOS, one agrees that they will take revenge on the lads.

 

I wonder what they were thinking to even try and evade a traffic stop. In NZ the cops may be a bit of a joke ( wokeness and PC have been at work for too long in NZ for my liking ) but even here I would not try and evade a traffic stop. They are not infrequent and are usually to check for drunk drivers.

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

I knew some would be defending this vile dross

If you think my post was in defense, your reading comprehension is lacking

[Hellfire]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

Sounded OK until the end when you spoil it all with a baseless assumption.

What the matter with people? Are they incapable of critical thinking?

 

 Engaging in a debate with common sense using fabricated "critical thinking" is a futile endeavor. It is evident that one will inevitably lose such a battle. If individuals were to be held accountable for every nonsensical statement they make (like, pay one dollar for every word of nonsense) - there would be no discussions in this thread.

[mania]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only point of relevance is that one does not go to a foreign country where one does not have a clue about how it works, and assault a cop,

 

Well that is the problem isn't it...Did they assault a cop or just disarm a situation that may have ended much worse?

Old saying that of course will not be valid in Thailand though is....

“It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by six”

 

On a not so funny side note ....imagine how the parents feel hearing this story & then the news today that Thailands two top ranking cops have been suspended/switched off due to corrupt activities accusations..... The Joe Ferrari's of Thailand are alive & well. Thailand Thailand 🙄

 

Edited March 22 by mania

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, mania said:

Well that is the problem isn't it...Did they assault a cop or just disarm a situation that may have ended much worse?

Old saying that of course will not be valid in Thailand though is....

“It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by six”

Everyone, presumably, on here, has seen the VDO. Sure looks like assault to me. If I were on a jury I'd convict the one holding the cop. I'm not sure about his brother though as the VDO doesn't show him actually assaulting the cop or what happened before they took the gun off him. He may not have been involved in the assault and only assisting in an assault.

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, Hellfire said:

common sense using fabricated "critical thinking"

That's an oxymoron. With or without whatever the "fabricated" means in this circumstance

Edited March 22 by kwilco

[ju555]

They undeniably assaulted the cop. Video shows them wrestling the cop to the ground and holding him in chokehold. That is an assault 100%. It does not matter what was the reason for the assault and whether the lads stopped after the assault. It was an assault 100%.

 

About the reason there are several parties which judge the validity of the reason differently.

 

The Thai law and Thai Cops and Judges probably think there is zero reason to make assaulting a cop acceptable and this is what matters. The lads are going to prison for a long time no matter what reason the lads think was the reason.

 

Some people here seems to think that any reason or no reason makes it acceptable to assault a cop since that is what you have now and you think this was acceptable. There has been absolutely zero justification presented for the assault and you still think it was acceptable.

 

Most people do not think that your imagined self invented "reason" that the cop was holding the gun out of holster makes is okay to assault the cop and none other of your self invented "reasons" also make it okay to assault a cop. There has been no epidemic of cops shooting tourists and so if the cop had the gun out it was probably for a good reason and it does not allow foreigners to assault a cop. Even if there was no good reason for the cop to have gun out it still does not justify assaulting the cop.

 

imagine doing this for an american cop. A big chunk of americans think that even if the cop has already shot towards the immigrant looking people and the immigrant looking people then assault the cop as self defence that just gives the cop the right to finish the job and execute the immigrant looking people on the spot shooting them 20 times each.

Edited March 22 by ju555

[Hellfire]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

That's an oxymoron. With or without whatever the "fabricated" means in this circumstance

I would rephrase it:

Engaging in a debate AGAINST common sense using fabricated "critical thinking" is a futile endeavor. 
 

 

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

I would rephrase it:

Engaging in a debate AGAINST common sense using fabricated "critical thinking" is a futile endeavor. 
 

 

You appear to be failing to differentiate between common sense and critical thinking. You understand you are opposites?

[Hellfire]

6 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You appear to be failing to differentiate between common sense and critical thinking. You understand you are opposites?

Actually , this was an intended meaning of my original post. Don’t fight against common sense using fake constructions like ‘critical thinking’. Being suspicious about obvious things has nothing to do with the critical thinking. It is more about (very popular these days) conspiracy mentality (something on the opposite side of real thinking).

 

 

Edited March 22 by Hellfire