What can/should be done about the yaba crisis in Thailand?

[OneMoreFarang]

19 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You're actually comparing weed to yaba? Weed doesn't cause anywhere near the system damage that yaba, meth, heroin or crack does. Legalizing weed will only do what weed does. Calm people, make them feel happy, make money for the government, help with some diseases, including pain. Legalizing yaba will make millions more zombies that are into a drug they might not kick.

 

I have no personal experience with any drugs, except alcohol.

Obviously, the effects of weed and yaba are vastly different. But they are both, in many countries, illegal. And it seems people who try drug x are more likely also to try drug y.

 

I only talked about weed in above post because in Thailand it is an example how not to legalize drugs. As far as I understand the idea about legalizing drugs is to take the crime out of it. And officially available drugs are cleaner than illegal drugs - at least in general.

It should be legal, but it should not be advertised. It is crazy that in Thailand cigarettes are hidden in shops, and I think no advertisements. Weed shops with big advertisement are anywhere, at least where I live in Sukhumvit.

There should be no advertising for any drugs.

 

 

[Hummin]

As long army and police is involved in every part of the chain, there is no solution. 

 

The level of corruption in Thailand make the yaba trade on this level possible. 

[bob smith]

yaba daba doooooooo.

 

I could do with one of them little orange fellas now.

but I think i’ll make do with my coffee!

 

much love!

BOB.

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

I have no personal experience with any drugs, except alcohol.

Obviously, the effects of weed and yaba are vastly different. But they are both, in many countries, illegal. And it seems people who try drug x are more likely also to try drug y.

 

I only talked about weed in above post because in Thailand it is an example how not to legalize drugs. As far as I understand the idea about legalizing drugs is to take the crime out of it. And officially available drugs are cleaner than illegal drugs - at least in general.

It should be legal, but it should not be advertised. It is crazy that in Thailand cigarettes are hidden in shops, and I think no advertisements. Weed shops with big advertisement are anywhere, at least where I live in Sukhumvit.

There should be no advertising for any drugs.

 

 

Reasons for taking drugs is environment, no future hope or goals, and mental health as well pure boredom and no true positive challenges where lack of stimulation may lead to drug abuse.

 

Thai men especially from what I see and have experienced so far, weak mommy boys who have few or no true challenges or get their stimulation to become real men. Test themselves physically, compete create strong bonds tru sports, or just being creative and not to forget curious and have good role models who can guide them. 

 

 

[connda]

11 hours ago, jvs said:

Stronger punishment?

Doesn't work and never will work.  The profit incentive simple overrides all attempts at negative reinforcement.

The answer?  Something akin to the Portugal Protocol.  This requires active intervention, medical treatment, and follow-on.  Instead of throwing users in prison, they are treated in medical facilities. 
The other thing to do is to stop treating drugs like Ganja any different than the drug alcohol.  Regulate it, tax it, and stop throwing users into prison.  Then concentrate on highly addictive drugs: heroin and methamphetamine and their analogs.  This entails treating addicts and actually creating enforcement mechanisms to stop the supply of the base ingredients and precursors as well as targeting drug labs and trafficking - but doing so without making those products essentially illegal for actual medical use - like palliative care.

But what are you going to do.  There is too much corruption in the system and too much money at stake.  So the status quo remains the status quo.  What do you expect when high ranking officials within a government - themselves- were once tossed into prison overseas for drug trafficking. Do you really believe that zebra change their stripes? The system is bent and nothing changes until the dinosaurs die off or are removed from positions of power and a new paradigm is adopted.

[ChaiyaTH]

What is the point of this entire topic, they just changed the law for this entire reason: a user can now have up to 5 pills, that solves the crisis in terms of needing too much dodgy dealers on the streets, having too many users jailed etc etc. 

In terms of the production and distribution of the drugs, that will never end, together with the ports in Vietnam and heroin, that market will continue forever. To reduce the use of the drugs within Thailand itself? Only better economy will fix that, aside from legalizing all drugs as much as possible, to make it so cheap dealers are not interested.

 

Main reason for people to start using yaba a lot is 95% of the time economical origins. They should make beer cheaper, like in Vietnam. The move of having more weed in the country is a good start too. Better to have a million rasta heads than yaba swallowing knife carriers.

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

Doesn't work and never will work.  The profit incentive simple overrides all attempts at negative reinforcement.

Of course that doesn't work, this guy JVS his brains are not working for sure to even suggest stronger punishment, the punishments are the entire reason that prisons here are over crowded and you can Thaksin for that as well, aside from having murdered dozens if not hundreds. They just changed that.

 

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

whats the drug situation like in philippines with duterte's "I will shoot and kill you" anti-drug campaign?

 

One narcissistic person talking and a nation doing is 2 different things.   Laws are useless if not enforced and sentences carried out.  How about:

Singapore

Saudi Arabia

Brunei

Maldives

Oman

Qatar

Timor Leste

[2baht]

12 hours ago, jvs said:

Any ideas out there?

Leave it to the Thai's!

[patman30]

44 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

the idea about legalizing drugs is to take the crime out of it

A lot of the time the crimes are only crimes because it is illegal.

[Korat Kiwi]

47 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

whats the drug situation like in philippines with duterte's "I will shoot and kill you" anti-drug campaign?

 

Duterte is no longer in charge.  During his tenure lots of dealers were 'removed' from the network,  along with many innocent people. 

 

My estranged Filipina wife's brother was one of Dutertes' vigilantes.  He  'disposed' many of these alleged dealers.  Not a nice person, but he was 'just' doing his job as ordered. 

 

Getting rid of dealers in this fashion barely puts a dent in things.  There are so many that will take their place.  High population and poverty will always see to that. 

 

Drugs.... I've only ever smoked weed (Last puff about 15 years ago). Never seen or had the need for anything else, nor the interest in 'trying' anything heavier/stronger. 

 

There are other activities that provide natural highs and that's enough for me. 

[bendejo]

Well now that you-know-who is back maybe it will revert to "shoot on sight" like back when.

 

[sungod]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

There is already a voice in the government that has said upto 5 tablets will be simple possession

and no jail time.

Yet they want to criminalise weed again.......they've no idea.

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, patman30 said:

A lot of the time the crimes are only crimes because it is illegal.

Yes, there was a time in TH, when it was available and probably encouraged by employers....

 

"Ya ba tablets were formerly sold legally at fuel stations and used by long-haul drivers to stay awake. The drug was outlawed by the Thai government in 1970"

 

Till some geniuses, figured they could make a lot of money by making it illegal.  If it was legal, there wouldn't be much profit in the business of.

[herfiehandbag]

5 hours ago, doosyhindleg said:

People need to understand that Yaba is a far less destructive drug than Alcohol!

With knowledge in the Treatment and Education of AOD I can assure you that Alcohol is the most damaging drug of all. Just think about the small percentage of Central Nervous System Stimulant users worldwide compared to the larger percentage of Alcohol users worldwide. Yes, Yaba and all other CNS Stimulants have negative impacts on the individual & community however now think about the greater COST Alcohol has on the community as a whole. Alcohol related issues far out way the small percentage of stimulant users' issues!! i.e. slips, trips, falls, Family & domestic violence. Sexual Assaults, vehicle accidents, social and emotional well-being issues, loss of relationships & damage to every cell in the body, massive economical cost to society far greater than stimulant users worldwide. Think about that when you're next tonguing for an Alcoholic beverage Hahaha   🤣

Rubbish, frankly.

 

Yes, alcohol is by far the most widely used "stimulant" worldwide. Yes there are many social and economic problems caused by it's abuse, but, and it is a massive but, it is neither as universally addictive nor as psychologically destructive as meth, or other artificial drugs. It doesn't destroy individuals, families and societies in the way that Meth does, and is doing amongst young urban Thais.

 

As for what to do about it, well, nothing can be done until it's import, distribution and control is forced from the grip of corrupt officialdom which manages it!

[jvs]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Of course that doesn't work, this guy JVS his brains are not working for sure to even suggest stronger punishment, the punishments are the entire reason that prisons here are over crowded and you can Thaksin for that as well, aside from having murdered dozens if not hundreds. They just changed that.

 

Really ?You are wrong!Did i suggest stronger punishment?It was more of a question to get people involved in this topic.

Is your brain working?

I am all for freedom of certain drugs but getting children on this deadly drug is terrible!

I know stronger punishment does not help .lots of countries have tried and are still trying to win.

Not looking for an argument,just wanting to have dialogue but you seem to be looking for something else.

Have a nice day.

 

[patman30]

13 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

alcohol is by far the most widely used "stimulant" worldwide.

Alcohol is a depressant

 

15 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

it is neither as universally addictive nor as psychologically destructive as meth

Says your bias addicted opinion.

the negatives from addiction are always hard to measure, just the fact of a substance being illegal makes it an issue
also due to substances being illegal you would never get a clear picture of their widespread use by "normal" functioning people who are not seen as addicts and are not destructive.
As for alcohol it is extremely difficult to see the damage alcohol does to a society until you are completely clean of it, and i do not mean just a few days or weeks off it.
 

[herfiehandbag]

10 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Says your bias addicted opinion.

I am not particularly biased, nor am I addicted.

 

I drink, moderately, on occasions. I also go for considerable periods, several weeks, without drinking. Currently I am on a course of antibiotics, which preclude drinking. Absolutely no problem. I can live with that.

 

We see many posts, whenever yaa baa, or any other drugs are discussed claiming that none of these addictions are as serious as drinking alcohol. If you query the zeal with which alcohol is condemned then you are branded an addict. It is for the most part a deflection. 

 

[JackGats]

Duplicate. Tricked again.

[JackGats]

Note how in Thailand an additional layer of damaging crap, ie caffeine, is added to the methamphetamine. As though methamphetamine were not sympathomimetic enough on its own. As far as I know the meth/speed consumed in other countries only contains methamphetamine as the active ingredient.

 

Besides, if methamphetamine is a social evil in Thailand, what about caffeine? If you die of a heart attack from Yaba, do you die from the methamphetamine or from the caffeine? What about the coffee shops sprouting up everywhere in Thailand? What about caffeinated drinks that hook people by combining two addictive substances: sugar and caffeine? The yaba epidemics is bad but I guess the caffeine epidemics is no longer an epidemics as 90% of the population are hooked on it anyway.

 

If you want to rant against drugs you need to wear a good pair of blinders/blinkers.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

. Currently I am on a course of antibiotics, which preclude drinking.

You do understand this is purely an old wives tale?

 

Alcohol doesn't affect antibiotics in any way, unless you're too drunk to remember to take the pills or throw them up.

https://theconversation.com/mondays-medical-myth-you-cant-mix-antibiotics-with-alcohol-4407

[jvs]

56 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Note how in Thailand an additional layer of damaging crap, ie caffeine, is added to the methamphetamine. As though methamphetamine were not sympathomimetic enough on its own. As far as I know the meth/speed consumed in other countries only contains methamphetamine as the active ingredient.

 

Besides, if methamphetamine is a social evil in Thailand, what about caffeine? If you die of a heart attack from Yaba, do you die from the methamphetamine or from the caffeine? What about the coffee shops sprouting up everywhere in Thailand? What about caffeinated drinks that hook people by combining two addictive substances: sugar and caffeine? The yaba epidemics is bad but I guess the caffeine epidemics is no longer an epidemics as 90% of the population are hooked on it anyway.

 

If you want to rant against drugs you need to wear a good pair of blinders/blinkers.

How many people commit crimes because of drinking coffee?

Young men asking for coffee money and because grandma is not giving it ,he kills her?

No,i do not believe coffee is a major threat to Thai society.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You do understand this is purely an old wives tale?

 

Alcohol doesn't affect antibiotics in any way, unless you're too drunk to remember to take the pills or throw them up.

https://theconversation.com/mondays-medical-myth-you-cant-mix-antibiotics-with-alcohol-4407

 

Thats too generalised...  not all antibiotics are the same and there are some types of antibiotic which are not adequately metabolised when taken in the presence of alcohol... 

 

So... while not wholly accurate, in fact, as you point out, mostly inaccurate - the medical advice not to take alcohol when taking antibiotics is general advice for the general public, i.e. the medically uneducated who are unable to differentiate and may dumb down and over simply their attitudes to such matters and believe becase taking alcohol with many antibiotics its ok for all and start claiming medical advice is just an 'old wives tale' !!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

Note how in Thailand an additional layer of damaging crap, ie caffeine, is added to the methamphetamine. As though methamphetamine were not sympathomimetic enough on its own. As far as I know the meth/speed consumed in other countries only contains methamphetamine as the active ingredient.

 

Besides, if methamphetamine is a social evil in Thailand, what about caffeine? If you die of a heart attack from Yaba, do you die from the methamphetamine or from the caffeine? What about the coffee shops sprouting up everywhere in Thailand? What about caffeinated drinks that hook people by combining two addictive substances: sugar and caffeine? The yaba epidemics is bad but I guess the caffeine epidemics is no longer an epidemics as 90% of the population are hooked on it anyway.

 

If you want to rant against drugs you need to wear a good pair of blinders/blinkers.

 

Highlighting a comparison between Coffee and Methamphetamine highlights a major logic imbalance... such that the the above comment is out there in 'complete nut-job territory' !!!....

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You do understand this is purely an old wives tale?

 

Alcohol doesn't affect antibiotics in any way, unless you're too drunk to remember to take the pills or throw them up.

https://theconversation.com/mondays-medical-myth-you-cant-mix-antibiotics-with-alcohol-4407

Just following the instructions of the medics.

[Korat Kiwi]

4 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Just following the instructions of the medics.

From my understanding as told to me via a medic, the reasoning behind this direction (Or old wives tale as some put it) is thus:

 

Alcohol (mainly of the beer type) when drunk in greater quantities (define greater?) causes the consumer to urinate more frequently.  This in turn 'washes' out the antibiotic that are in the 'system'. 

 

Thereby making them not as effective.  I'm no medico but this tends to make sense. 

 

The other biggest factor is to complete the course of antibiotics and not to stop early cause you think you're over whatever it is that cause you to be on them.  

 

Hey I've drunk beers while on antibiotics... Never had any violent reaction as a result. 

[theblether]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Need to bring back the life & death sentences for distribution, dependent on amounts.  Countries that stick to them, without the revolving door prisons seem to have less drug problems.

 

This has been tried in Thailand including the horrendous war on drugs in 2004 which resulted in thousands of summary street executions including many innocents. It was a convenient way for certain people to get rid of rivals ( including love rivals ). 

 

Question for the people who think this can be controlled. How do you intend to police the 1800 mile long land border with Myanmar? How do you intend to stop poverty stricken and war torn Burmese from earning life changing money from one successful drug run? 

 

I'll answer. You can't. 

[wombat]

Probably the same as your country handles meth...nothing to sfa.

Portugal is the only country that has a working solution.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Just following the instructions of the medics.

Are these the same medics that give antibiotics to cure a cold?

[Photoguy21]

The problem will never be solved until the dealers are removed from the streets.