13 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

But the wild predictions about Trump aren't useful.

I agree.

And it seems people in the Trump bubble predict things based on their experience in their bubble. And people from their bubble will read and see it and agree.

And people in the anti-Trump bubble predict things based on their experience in their bubble. And people from their bubble will read and see it and agree.

 

Unfortunately, there seem to be not too many people who talk with people from all sides and then think about possibilities for the future.

And one reason for that seems to be that many members of the respective bubbles will only listen to people in their own bubble.

As a consequence, we can find vastly different "facts" and vastly different predictions.

 

And I remember when people predicted that with the internet we will have information from all sides and it will be easier for us to listen to all sides, evaluate the facts, etc. Somehow it seems that didn't happen.

7 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

the institutional strengths of US administrations are sufficient to prevent too much careering off the rails. We might see this truth tested over the next 4 years.

I wouldn't bet on that one.

 

It seems many "rules" are not laws. Like nobody thought that a criminal would run for presidency and absolutely nobody thought people would elect such a criminal and he could be a criminal and in jail and president at the same time.

Until not long ago it wasn't necessary to put things like that into laws, because it just wouldn't happen. But then...

 

Trump is going to put all gays into camps. Trump is going to kill the planet by drilling for oil and putting obstacles in the face of the green economy. Trump is going to allow hate speach to flourish. Trump is an Israel lover.

He gave the Kremlin access to top secret docs in exchange for electoral interference. He should be locked up for life

4 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

He gave the Kremlin access to top secret docs in exchange for electoral interference. He should be locked up for life

China too. He got money from the Chinese. and the Israelis fund his lifestyle, he is beholden to the Zionists. 

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

I agree with what you say. But to be fair, those Trump fans have a point.

How many other politicians have been to court because they paid hush money to someone? I am pretty sure Trump is not the only politicians who ever did that.

 

Apart from that it's sad to see that all the other real cases against him, with the insurrection and the votes in Georgia, are still not in court.

As far as I see it there is tons of evidence. He should be in jail by now.

But no, nothing happens, or it happens very slow, and people talk about how much money he gave to a sex worker. 

paying the hush money is not the felony...the felony is paying her to keep quite right after his grab em by the puxxxy tape came out and his poll numbers tanked....so he paid her to keep that info from coming out right before the election which is election interference , a felony........he knew that is she told her story right after the grab em tape that he would likely have not won....but yes i would like to see the judges quit letting him play games and start the docs and jan 6 and rico trials

15 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Not sure whether you're being deliberately disingenuous or not, but you're totally misrepresenting the reason for the charges he's facing.

 

He's not on trial for paying hush money (as you say, many people have done that) and it is indeed, not illegal as such, to do so.

 

What he's actually on trial for is first-degree falsifying of business records, in relation to the payments. And the reason it's being charged as a first-degree offence is because (at least according to the prosecutors) he falsified these business records in order to hide damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election, which is an electoral offence under both federal and state law.

The payment conveniently was done a few days before the election right after the grab em by the psssy came out and his numbers tanked....all he needed was the stormy porn star story to also come out right then as it would  have greatly damaged his chances of being elected if the voters had known before they voted....that is the felony not the payment...it's called election interference which will be proven at trial with a variety of witnesses who were there and along with a solid paper trail as well as recording made by cohen will prove he indeed knew  and the payment was to keep the public from hearing yet another sorid tale.....

 

How ironic that the conman who is daily trying to accuse the doj of a witchhunt and election interference is highly likely to get convicted of election interference...

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And I remember when people predicted that with the internet we will have information from all sides and it will be easier for us to listen to all sides, evaluate the facts, etc. Somehow it seems that didn't happen.

 

It did for a decade. But starting in the 2010s, governments began controlling the information flow through regulation of the Internet. The major social network platforms have also been used to keep an eye on people, allegedly to "fight hate speech" (c.f. Zuckerberg and Macron's "Tech for Good" meetings).

Trumps hair looks like a dead badger dyed in a colour unknown to nature. His spray tan is tacky. He likes Mickey Ds. He is crass and a boor and acts like the plumber down the block. His daddy was a Klansman. He ran around NYC 40 years ago and diddled everyone in sight. He blew choad on Stormys enormous and then non saggy bazookas. His old lady is totally hot, but a typical dumb Slavic Icebiatch

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Trumps hair looks like a dead badger dyed in a colour unknown to nature. His spray tan is tacky. He likes Mickey Ds. He is crass and a boor and acts like the plumber down the block. His daddy was a Klansman. He ran around NYC 40 years ago and diddled everyone in sight. He blew choad on Stormys enormous and then non saggy bazookas. His old lady is totally hot, but a typical dumb Slavic Icebiatch

 

Can't argue with your observations, except about his wife being dumb, but the loonie lefties are once again doing everything they can to get him re-elected.

 

First time they got together and decided that since millions of republicans despised him they needed to find the one person that people hated more than him and Hillary stood up and said "I'll be your Huckleberry"

 

When he lost to Biden it was similar circumstances , and I think he would have won if he had just kept his mouth. The fence sitters that didn't like either choice couldn't take any more of his BS.

 

And now the lefties that think all the voters are stupid are going to run a president that has full blown Alzheimer's for re-election. What a choice, Trump the arrogant jerk, or the senile Sleepy Joe.

 

When I was born the USA was feared by some, respected by most, and afraid of no one. Now we are laughed at.

 

 

9 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You are co-mingling 2 different cases, but your second point is correct - it's going to be difficult to convict Trump without proving an underlying crime.

 

My feeling is that Bragg felt pressure to do something given the shady stuff Trump was known to be doing, but he may have over-reached with the felony charges.

I'm not so sure about that. According to the Statement of Facts that accompanied the indictment, the prosecution has various witnesses and other evidence, including audio tapes that seem to show the underlying crime was Trump making payments to ensure that damaging information did not come out during the election campaign.

 

One of those witnesses is of course, Michael Cohen and it has rightly been pointed out by various commentators that his credibility is questionable. However the other main witness is David Pecker, CEO of American Media Inc, who I think is more credible and more damaging to Trump's case.

 

Pecker has already admitted in a non-prosecution agreement that he operated a "catch and kill" scheme that involved paying 3 different people to ensure that they “did not publicize damaging allegations” about Trump “before the 2016 presidential election and thereby influence that election.”

 

The proof of the pudding will come in the verdict but if the jurors accept both Cohen's and more importantly, Pecker's testimony, then Trump could be in trouble.

 

Both the indictment and the Statement of Facts are available on the link below. 

 

District Attorney Bragg Announces 34-Count Felony Indictment of Former President Donald J. Trump

20 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Is there a precedent of him doing that?

Yes, during the E. Jean Carroll court cases. During (and after) the first case he just couldn't keep his mouth shut so ended up getting sued again and incurring an even bigger monetary penalty, precisely because he had shown that the first penalty levied was not enough to stop him.

3 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm not so sure about that. According to the Statement of Facts that accompanied the indictment, the prosecution has various witnesses and other evidence, including audio tapes that seem to show the underlying crime was Trump making payments to ensure that damaging information did not come out during the election campaign.

There is no question that DA Bragg will prove that Trump paid Stormy Daniels off to prevent her story getting out before the election.

 

However, Trump was never charged with that crime, so the prerequisite for a felony charge is just not there.

 

There is a coverup, but no crime.

5 hours ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

 

And now the lefties that think all the voters are stupid are going to run a president that has full blown Alzheimer's for re-election. What a choice, Trump the arrogant jerk, or the senile Sleepy Joe.

 

There is no evidence that Biden has Alzheimers.

 

It seems that you have been conned.

46 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

There is no evidence that Biden has Alzheimers.

 

It seems that you have been conned.

 

There is plenty of evidence. Why do you think his handlers will not allow for neurological exams, cognitive and functional assessments, and other tests to confirm it be conducted.

Most trump haters have one thing in common; they support biden. 
 

that’s basically a death nail in a coffin. That’s a conversation ender. No need to discuss anything, ever, with a human being that supports Biden. It’s beyond all pale and you’ve obviously been manipulated into believing the man has even a shred of coherence 

39 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

There is no question that DA Bragg will prove that Trump paid Stormy Daniels off to prevent her story getting out before the election.

 

However, Trump was never charged with that crime, so the prerequisite for a felony charge is just not there.

 

There is a coverup, but no crime.

I'm not aware that the defendant has to have actually been found guilty in court of the underlying crime. If that were the case, then surely Alvin Bragg would not have been allowed to charge Trump with a felony instead of a misdemeanour in the first place.

 

We already know an electoral crime was committed in relation to these exact payments, because Michael Cohen was already found guilty of it (with Trump identified in court documents as an unindicted co-conspirator, don't forget).

On 4/12/2024 at 8:00 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

It would be great if he would be jailed for treason

He would need to have committed treason for that to happen.

On 4/12/2024 at 8:17 PM, mfd101 said:

And tax evasion is (I guess) in Usofa barely worth mentioning ..

He has not been charged with tax evasion so, you're right, it was not worth mentioning .

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

There is no question that DA Bragg will prove that Trump paid Stormy Daniels off to prevent her story getting out before the election.

 

However, Trump was never charged with that crime, so the prerequisite for a felony charge is just not there.

 

There is a coverup, but no crime.

Came across this article in Vox. It actually calls Bragg's whole legal premise dubious, but that's because they're not sure a federal crime can be used to elevate a state charge into a felony, although Bragg himself has pointed out that the alleged electoral fraud is a violation of both federal and state law.

 

The article nevertheless points out that in order to justify a felony charge, an actual conviction on the underlying crime is not necessary, it is enough for the prosecution to show that the defendant's “intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.”

 

https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/4/4/23648390/trump-indictment-supreme-court-stormy-daniels-manhattan-alvin-bragg

On 4/12/2024 at 3:33 PM, Yagoda said:

Trump is a Russian agent who let Hookers pee on his bed.

on the bed Obamba family used to "boom-shaka-laka"
Kinda childish though, but Trump is also "colorful man" as Rudy Duterte put. 

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm not aware that the defendant has to have actually been found guilty in court of the underlying crime. If that were the case, then surely Alvin Bragg would not have been allowed to charge Trump with a felony instead of a misdemeanour in the first place.

I think your assumption is going to be tested during the trial.

 

Even if the underlying crime were committed, Trump has not been charged with it.

23 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

on the bed Obamba family used to "boom-shaka-laka"
Kinda childish though, but Trump is also "colorful man" as Rudy Duterte put. 

Obama went to Russia for official purposes.

 

Trump went to Russia to get cozy with the FSB and their associates.

2 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Most trump haters have one thing in common; they support biden. 
 

that’s basically a death nail in a coffin. That’s a conversation ender. No need to discuss anything, ever, with a human being that supports Biden. It’s beyond all pale and you’ve obviously been manipulated into believing the man has even a shred of coherence 

80 million Biden voters in the last election makes you a lonely man.

 

Speaking of coherence, do you even listen to your Dear Leader Trump?

 

You sound like a bitter Truth Social shareholder.

2 hours ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

There is plenty of evidence. Why do you think his handlers will not allow for neurological exams, cognitive and functional assessments, and other tests to confirm it be conducted.

Please produce the evidence of Alzheimers.

12 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

He gave the Kremlin access to top secret docs in exchange for electoral interference. He should be locked up for life

You'll need to prove that.

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump went to Russia to get cozy with the FSB and their associates.

and they gave him a nom "Orange Doodookee"

1 minute ago, NativeBob said:

and they gave him a nom "Orange Doodookee"

Not to mention a secret night in Moscow.

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

What is to be done.

 

 

My plan is to register new voters in a swing state before the election. That is what I am doing to beat Trump.

 

Many of the Trump trolls here are foreigners, so they can't do anything to help Trump win.

3 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

He said it, I agree, thats proof.

 

Are you a Trumper? An ignorant, hood wearing, drooling gap toothed homophobic rascist sexist mysogninst meat eating gun owning NASCAR watching ignorant Troglodyte? How dare you comment. Go back to your ditch digging you prole and let your betters decide.

I think you don't know who you are responding to. I am part of the reality based community, not the Trump swamp of ingnorance.

 

Trump never said he provided intelligence to the Russians. You can prove me wrong by providing a link proving your point.