I got a Non-O single visa, but I would like to enter into visa exempt & use the visa later

[Liquorice]

14 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Are you suggesting the immigration can't check the validity of an e-visa?  I very much doubt that you are correct.

If you've been reading along and following the topic, the OP won't show his 'stickerless' e-visa.

[Liquorice]

3 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

 

  

 

 

Well, that's quite easy really. Enter on a different passport to the one that the visa is attached to. Eg. if you have a Canadian passport that the visa is attached to, then enter on your EU passport and get the 30 day exempt entry. Simples 😉

Sorry, I missed the part where the OP stated he had dual nationality.  🙄

[MangoKorat]

8 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

If you've been reading along and following the topic, the OP won't show his 'stickerless' e-visa.

I am aware of that, I am simply saying that the fact he has a visa may well show up on the system when he enters. In that case, if the I.O. on entry, behaves the same as they did with me, they will insist of triggering the visa. If they don't - great for the OP but there is no guarantee.

 

You are claiming that Immigration have no access to the visa system and therefore won't be aware of his visa - I find that incredible as they would have no way of detecting fake visas etc.

Edited April 14 by MangoKorat

[Liquorice]

17 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

You are claiming that Immigration have no access to the visa system and therefore won't be aware of his visa - I find that incredible as they would have no way of detecting fake visas etc.

You totally miss the point, the OP has a stickerless visa that is not in his passport, it's printed on a separate piece of paper, and yes the Thai Embassy system and Thailand internal entry are totally separate systems.

Edited April 14 by Liquorice

[MangoKorat]

9 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

You totally miss the point, the OP has a stickerless visa that is not in his passport, it printed on a separate piece of paper, and yes the Thai Embassy system and Thailand internal entry are totally separate systems.

I did not miss that point at all.

 

I will repeat:

 

When he enters, I am almost certain that his visa will show on the system. I don't agree with you that Immigration don't have access to that system. They may well be separate systems but it would seem incredible that immigration does not have access to both. How would they verify a visa's authenticity for example?

 

A few years ago I entered with a physical Non O in my passport that I didn't want to trigger but the I.O. insisted.  If I am correct and his visa does show on the system (clearly it not in his passport), he runs the risk of the same thing happening.

Edited April 14 by MangoKorat

[Liquorice]

14 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

When he enters, I am almost certain that his visa will show on the system. I don't agree with you that Immigration don't have access to that system. They may well be separate systems but it would seem incredible that immigration does not have access to both. How would they verify a visa's authenticity for example?

 

A few years ago I entered with a physical Non O in my passport that I didn't want to trigger but the I.O. insisted.  If I am correct and his visa does show on the system (clearly it not in his passport), he runs the risk of the same thing happening.

Nuts!

 

Dear Mr MangoKorat,

I'm afraid we have to reject your application for a Tourist visa as our records indicate that on entry to Thailand on your previous Tourist visa you failed to submit a TM30 as required by the Immigration Act.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

Kindest regards,

Thai Embassy.

 

The online e-visa system and Thai Immigration systems are totally separate and not accessible by the other.
The MFA are responsible for the e-visa system, Thai Immigration responsible once entering Thailand.

[sherwood]

I would suggest entering on your o visa, purchase a re-entry permit and then an extension if needed.

But then again that's just me.

[george]

Just show your passport and your printed e-visa to Immigration officer and say you want to enter on 30-days exemption at this time.

[MangoKorat]

16 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Nuts!

 

Dear Mr MangoKorat,

I'm afraid we have to reject your application for a Tourist visa as our records indicate that on entry to Thailand on your previous Tourist visa you failed to submit a TM30 as required by the Immigration Act.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

Kindest regards,

Thai Embassy.

Jeez, another one with Alzheimer's!

 

What on earth are you talking about?

 

On 25th November 2014 I arrived at Suvarnabhumi Airport. I was on my way to Taiwan to attend a friend's wedding with my wife who at the time lived in Bangkok.  My wife and I left Thailand on 27th November and arrived in Singapore the same day. We left Taiwan 3 days later and flew wife back to Bangkok where my wife stayed and I returned to the UK.  At that time, Eva Air allowed free stopovers in Bangkok which fitted in perfectly with my plans.

 

Prior to that I had intended on moving to Thailand in late December 2014/early January 2015 (no exact date fixed) and applying for a 12 month extension of stay based on marriage. I had obtained a single entry Non O in readiness for that move. The wedding invitation came very late but it was not possible for me to change my plans and move to Thailand earlier.  Nevertheless, the wedding was that of a close friend and I didn't want to miss it.

 

I therefore arrived in Bangkok with a single entry Non O in my passport. I didn't want to use the Non O as it could make things very tight for my forthcoming extension application.  The I.O. saw the Non O in my passport and insisted that I use it.

 

I have no idea what, if any, the regulations say on that matter but when you are entering a country, you are not in a position to start arguing with the immigration officer!

 

Stickerless or not, it is my contention that Thai Immigration will indeed have information on their system relating to visas and that it is quite possible that they will be aware of the OP's visa.

 

You claim to have knowledge that Thai immigration have no access to the visa system - sorry but what makes you so special that you have that information?  How do you know what Immigration has access to?  Can you prove that?  I don't believe you can, you just think its that case.

 

It seems incredulous that a country's Immigration department doesn't have access to vital information on the status of entrants.  I do not believe a word you have said and unless you can prove otherwise, I will not be moved on that.

 

If you can prove your claims, I will of course reply and accept your claims.  However, until then, I have stated what happened to me, what I think could possibly happen to the OP and that stands - I'm not about to argue further.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Stickerless or not, it is my contention that Thai Immigration will indeed have information on their system relating to visas and that it is quite possible that they will be aware of the OP's visa.

Your contention is incorrect. 

 

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, george said:

Just show your passport and your printed e-visa to Immigration officer and say you want to enter on 30-days exemption at this time.

I mentioned this in 3rd post. 

Previous reports of this being successful. 

The OP would have an onward flight to Phillipines and ticket to Thailand. 

Thinking io would accommodate this request.

One thing not mentioned is that an eVisa from UK would not have flight into Thailand from Phillipines 

[MangoKorat]

46 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Your contention is incorrect. 

 

And your proof of that statement is?

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, MangoKorat said:

And your proof of that statement is?

Read some earlier posts from @Liquorice

He is correct. You are not.

However I have mentioned in 2 posts suggest OP bring it to IO attention.  

[MangoKorat]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Read some earlier posts from @Liquorice

He is correct. You are not.

However I have mentioned in 2 posts suggest OP bring it to IO attention.  

I think you know what I am asking.  He has stated that Immigration do not have access to Visa information. I don't believe that.  I will accept that is a fact only if I'm shown evidence of it.  I

 

Its incredulous to think that the department that deals with foreigners either entering the country or living in it, doesn't have access to information about their visa status.

 

 

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Its incredulous to think that the department that deals with foreigners either entering the country or living in it, doesn't have access to information about their visa status.

 

Find it whatever you wish....

You are wrong

 

This comment earlier is correct..

"Thai Embassy system and Thailand internal entry are totally separate systems."

[MangoKorat]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Find it whatever you wish....

You are wrong

 

This comment earlier is correct..

"Thai Embassy system and Thailand internal entry are totally separate systems."

Do you think its is acceptable for a poster to make a claim about what information is available to government agencies and not prove it?

 

We have to accept it that it is the truth simply because you and another poster say it is?

 

Many times on this forum, people are required to back up such claims, it may I think, also be a forum rule.

 

I state again. I do not believe the Thai Immigration do not have access to visa information for people wishing to enter the Kingdom.  I will only accept such a statement with proof.

[Liquorice]

27 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

We have to accept it that it is the truth simply because you and another poster say it is?

 

Many times on this forum, people are required to back up such claims, it may I think, also be a forum rule.

It's an educated opinion based on what I know of the e-visa and Thai Embassy external systems, which are operated by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, against the totally separate internal systems operated by Thai Immigration. That and common sense.

[MangoKorat]

9 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

It's an educated opinion based on what I know of the e-visa and Thai Embassy external systems, which are operated by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, against the totally separate internal systems operated by Thai Immigration. That and common sense.

Thank you - perhaps you should have made it clear that its an opinion?

 

Common sense?  I base my 'common sense' on my actual experiences although on several occasions on this website I've been told I'm wrong by people who think they know better.

 

My assertions in this case are based on what I once saw on the screen I.O.'s screen during a protracted discussion firstly on immediate arrival where I was being considered for denial and later at the Immigration counter when, after being warned but allowed entry I went to discuss the matter further (not the same matter as up for discussion here but I did see the screen).

 

Its some years ago now but I was quite amazed at what they had on me - all my passports and visas since 2002 - for various reasons there have been 4 passports which they (rightly) linked to me. I only saw 2 pages, I think, as the officer at the counter kept flicking through as I asked questions. There were several pages that I didn't get to see. The pertainent point is that all my entries were on the screen together with my visas and passports, I know that because I saw them. I cannot state with any honesty that those visas were only ones that had been triggered or not as I cannot read Thai but they were on the screen.

 

Since then some departments of administration in Thailand have begun to share information.  For example, its not so long ago that you had to go to the Amphur where you got married in order to obtain proof that your marriage still subsists (Kor Ror 2).  Now that information can be obtained at any Amphur. When you get divorced, it is entered onto the system nationwide. I know of people who used to continue obtaining visas long after they were divorced - I wouldn't recommend trying that these days.

 

That and I also simply find it difficult, almost impossible, to believe that a closely related department wouldn't be able to access crucial information.

 

Immigration Entry Officers in the UK can even access the answers to questions on a visa application form - they can and often do, ask entrants questions and compare them to the application.

 

Thailand is not the UK granted, but it is difficult to believe that Thai Immigration Police do not know whether or not a visa has been issued. They are the first line of defence against fake passports and visas which are both known to exist. Surely a visa needs to be verified?  As an application for an E-Visa is done online, it would be fairly easy for the information to be shared with Immigration once granted - it would not require manual data entry.

 

Relating this to the OP, I think that the chances of Immigration knowing he holds a visa are real. It may depend on whether or not the I.O. takes the time to read all the information available and it may also depend on whether or not the I.O. agrees not to trigger his visa. It seems to be 'up to them'.

 

When they triggered mine, I got the distinct impression that they didn't have to. I'm pretty sure thay could just have stamped me in for 30 days but the officer refused.  When you are married to a Thai citizen, you should not enter using a 30 day waiver, you are not considered to be a tourist - that is from the 'horses mouth' on a separate occasion, not my own thoughts.  If the OP is married he should not try to enter visa exempt.

 

There will be plenty of people who have entered and left Thailand more times than I have but I would guess that I have done it more than most here and under several different sets of circumstances.  I have therefore come across more situations than many will have and probably been quesioned more.  That is the only reason I know what I know, I don't claim to have any special knowledge, I just refer to my experiences.

 

Whatever, it is my opinion that the OP is risking triggering his visa if he tries to enter on a 30 day. He could be lucky but it remains a possibility.

[MangoKorat]

6 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

My wife and I left Thailand on 27th November and arrived in Singapore the same day

Slight correction there, I was looking at visa stamps in my old passport as I typed. It was open on a page with Singapore stamps. We of course, arrived in Taipei.

[bigt3116]

19 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1324876-thailand-suspends-tm-6-immigration-forms-arrivaldeparture/

 

And on October 16 they will go back into effect, this is just a short term "tourist" enhancement.

 

[Danielsiam]

By the way I would like to add a crucial information, from 2023 experience  with my METV (Multi-Entry Tourist Visa)

 

When I had METV in 2023, and I did a crossing from Laos to Nong Khai to start my  1st entry on METV (I received the METV when I arrived in Thailand already as I entered on visa exempt, and 15 days later I received on my email the METV)

So, I went to Laos FB1 & go back to Nong Khai, in the minute, I put my E-Visa Paper on the desk, but the IO, didn't look at it almost ! and he stamped me right away the TR60 stamp on my passport, so after this, I though he just see my visa on the database as I guess it's linked directly with the data of the passport, & the visa.

 

But what is more amazing, is when I used to use the another entries of my METV by arriving in SVB airport on the next times, the IO always looking and reading the E-Visa paper carefully, & scan the QR code included in the visa paper on his machine.. which it was pretty different than the land border crossing. So for me it's really wondering how their system work..

 

 

Just a supposition, maybe he look the number of the visa on the TM6 form.. and put this on his database and find out the visa. (while crossing on land border in FB1)

Also entered once this year in SVB on visa exempt, the IO, asked me, do you have visa ? I said no.. he said, what are you doing in Thailand ? I said just travel around Asia, then looked my stamp for a minutes, & finally stamped out for 30 days.

Edited April 14 by Danielsiam

[Pattaya57]

I'm the same as I have a 60 day Tourist Visa and a non-imm O (Retirement) for my arrival tomorrow.

 

I decided to not mess around and just get the non-imm O going quickly to then get the 12 month extension in July

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Since then some departments of administration in Thailand have begun to share information.  For example, its not so long ago that you had to go to the Amphur where you got married in order to obtain proof that your marriage still subsists (Kor Ror 2).  Now that information can be obtained at any Amphur. When you get divorced, it is entered onto the system nationwide.

Internal nationwide systems, and you've been able to obtain a KR2 from at least any Provincial Amphur for the last 20 years.

 

7 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I know of people who used to continue obtaining visas long after they were divorced - I wouldn't recommend trying that these days.

There are still those who can obtain the Non Imm O ME visa where available after divorce, albeit they now require 400K.
How is this possible if they can access various databases.

 

Internal Immigration systems can't even access local government databases, or you wouldn't need to obtain a KR2 for extension applications based on Thai spouse, yet you insist they can access external Thai Embassy databases.

[Liquorice]

16 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I'm the same as I have a 60 day Tourist Visa and a non-imm O (Retirement) for my arrival tomorrow.

 

I decided to not mess around and just get the non-imm O going quickly to then get the 12 month extension in July

And you'll just provide the Non O stickerless visa, and the entry clearance officer won't even be aware you also have a stickerless TV.

[Pattaya57]

2 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

And you'll just provide the Non O stickerless visa, and the entry clearance officer won't even be aware you also have a stickerless TV.

It's a sticker TV. I got that first but then Australia started the e-visa so now easy to get non-imm O (before needed insurance)

 

Edited April 15 by Pattaya57

[Jaggg88]

18 hours ago, bbi1 said:

 

  

 

 

Well, that's quite easy really. Enter on a different passport to the one that the visa is attached to. Eg. if you have a Canadian passport that the visa is attached to, then enter on your EU passport and get the 30 day exempt entry. Simples 😉

No such thing as an EU passport. The visa isn't attached to the passport as it is a stickerless visa that is sent to your email.

[MangoKorat]

7 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Internal nationwide systems, and you've been able to obtain a KR2 from at least any Provincial Amphur for the last 20 years.

I can assure you that until around 2018, I was unable to obtain a KR2 from anywhere other than the Amphur that I was married at. That is not my opinion, that is a fact, I'm not in the habit of driving over 200km for the sake of it.

 

When my local office says "sorry, you need to get that from Buriram" - I should have told them they were wrong then? And demand they supply a KR2?

Edited April 15 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

6 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Internal Immigration systems can't even access local government databases, or you wouldn't need to obtain a KR2 for extension applications based on Thai spouse, yet you insist they can access external Thai Embassy databases.

I have no idea if Immigration can access matters pertaining to information held by Amphurs but I wouldn't expect them to. 

 

What I would expect is that Immigration has access to visa information. Immigration and the MFA's tasks cover the same areas - the MFA run the embassies and control visa applications, immigration check visas and allow entry.

 

I am very much aware that there is separation between the 2 departments - when I was told that a person entering to visit their spouse was not considered to be a tourist, I pointed out that the Thai Embassy in London's website states that a Multi Entry Tourist Visa was applicable for short family visits, the captain at the Suvarnabhumi immigration counter said "we decide which visa is correct, not the embassies".  So yes, they are very much their own departments but I repeat, I do not believe that they don't have access to visa information.

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 4/14/2024 at 6:51 AM, Liquorice said:

I think your question is regarding applying for the Non Imm O in Thailand from an Immigration office?

No my question is not that. My question is about applying for a visa at a Thai embassy. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

 

On 4/13/2024 at 7:38 PM, scoutman360 said:

From other replies, it sounds like it can be done. But if your eVisa already has an expiration date, much of it will be used up by the time you enter Thailand on it. I guess the advantage to your method is that you would not need to apply for a re-entry permit for your Philipine visit. If you enter on your non-o, you would need a re-entry permit.

Regardless of the expiration date of the visa, when the person enters Thailand, he will be given 90 days to stay. Even if he enters on the expiration day of the visa, he will be given 90 days to stay.