Frozen pension policy turns British expat's dream into a nightmare

[metisdead]

Off topic baiting posts, name calling posts and the replies have been removed. 

[delgarcon]

1 hour ago, FruitPudding said:

 

How long do you have to be "back" before you can use the NHS for free like everyone else?

 A few years back I visited one of these health centers in the UK. I gave them my NH number and got 3 months of meds buckshee.

[Perhaps2more]

23 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1995-05-04/debates/0f8a64d2-9e26-4fc8-813d-2504e909e8ae/Pensions(Expatriates)

 

In theory, all UK pensioners could go home, and their pensions increased to the current rate.

 

So it is possible then to go home, get the increased amount and coming out again?

[delgarcon]

We know that we will never get the pension increases legitimately, because most of us can't vote. So, there are those of us who accept their lot and there are others who wont let the bas,rds get away with keeping the increases that we believe we've earned. I'm a gambler by nature and having weighed up the pros and cons I decided long ago it was worth the risk and I wasn't wrong. Those of you who haven't got the bottle, don't beat yourself up, there's maybe a place in heaven for you😄, but don't keep on about passport control, that's a dead horse.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Can't you go back for holidays to use the NHS?

I believe that if you "return" there is a six month period before you can use the NHS, and then you have to satisfy them that your return is permanent.

 

I am sure that if you turned up chronically sick they would not let you die in the car park...

 

I'm actually quite satisfied with the treatment I received from the Thai health service. It is actually not that expensive, here. However in the UK it would be much more expensive, and a cost which would have to be born by the state (which was my point)

Edited April 27 by herfiehandbag

[Moonlover]

9 hours ago, Stanton681 said:

It’s not.
 

I know 2 Brits here in Isaan who were caught and are having to repay overpayment. Worse is that they’ve had their pensions revert to the amount they received when they moved to Thailand.

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Let's see the court decision letter!

But we all know there wasn't one.

No there won't be any 'court decision letters'. @BritManToo, that's not how it works. I also knew of 2 cases whilst I was living in Egypt. DWP simply told the culprits (a husband and wife) that they will have to repay the over payments and have their pensions pegged, just as @Stanton681 said.

 

They were also told that if they wished to protest, they may do so, but that would result in a prosecution for fraud with the inevitable consequences. Their pension payments were withheld until they agreed to DWP's decision. Needless to say, they agreed. 

 

 

[Moonlover]

2 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I believe that if you "return" there is a six month period before you can use the NHS, and then you have to satisfy them that your return is permanent.

 

I am sure that if you turned up chronically sick they would not let you die in the car park...

No that is not true. If you are returning to live there permanently you're entitled to NHS treatment from the moment you arrive. See para 5 in the reference below.

 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs25_returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf

[proton]

1 hour ago, BumGun said:

The immigrant/refugee blaming in here is depressing, it's the very wealthy that have corrupted the system not refugees or immigrants, they're typically the ones emptying the bedpans at the hospitals and picking the fruit and veg.

 

 

 

How are thousands of illegal immigrants costing 8 million a day emptying bedpans and picking fruit? Close to one million immigrants a year is depressing, costing the UK 36 billion since 2020. No wonder there is no money to up rate pensions!

[edwinchester]

50 minutes ago, Perhaps2more said:

So it is possible then to go home, get the increased amount and coming out again?

You can get the increased amount as soon as you return. If you stay in the UK for 6 months or longer the increase becomes permanent.

 

[simon43]

6 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Without wishing to sound pedantic the policy has nothing to do with a double tax agreement, Thailand and the UK already have one.

 

To receive increases in State Pension increases there needs to be a social security agreement between the two countries.

...

Yes, mea culpa, I meant a social security agreement!

[sambum]

3 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

If we were getting a fair deal from the government I feel there would be less to complain about, we are not getting a fair deal and if it was upgraded it would still remain the lowest in Europe, do you think that the government is lying to you?

 

Of course! It's just a shame that people have to go down to their level, and lie and cheat to get what is rightfully theirs.

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Ajarnbrian said:

UK state pension amount first depends on number of ‘contribution years’, 35 years needed (for those reaching pension age since 2016). Your pension should be increased yearly to allow for cost of living increases. But it has long been frozen if you’re not living in the UK or EU countries, or - wait for it - US, Philippines, Israel or Turkey. Yes, Philippines fine for getting your annual increase but not Thailand. Go figure.

Ridiculous! And worse so - the scenarios happening at the Niagara Falls!

[freedomnow]

On 4/26/2024 at 1:07 PM, BritManToo said:

Tell them you live in the Philippines then you get full pension!

Weird how there is the exception.

 

Do they not checkup on location of where you claim from ?

Edited April 27 by freedomnow

[In Full Agreement]

3 hours ago, theblether said:

One of my ( very ) close relatives is an HMRC tax investigator. I posted this years ago but now time for a reminder. The government has an internal system called ICE. My relative only needs to submit your national insurance number and it spits out reports. If he adds a last known address and ( god forbid ) a passport number, twenty-three government agencies spit out everything they know about you. 

 

First, I haven't read the whole thread - the Thai government has a report of every time you have entered the kingdom. Do not kid yourself that the British government does not have every single entry you have made to the UK in the last 20 years. Second, the UK government has access to every flight manifest for passengers of any nationality entering or leaving the UK. By the way, some of you will be unaware that the HMRC investigation period has been extended from the previous six years to twenty years now. 

 

Second - HMRC can demand every financial transaction linked to your UK account and the banks cannot deny access to the records. So every time you have used an ATM drawing from a UK bank in Thailand it's recorded and accessible by HMRC. Equally every bank transfer overseas is recorded but no one is that stupid that they don't know that. 

 

Third - DWP are part of the ICE system, that should be obvious to everyone too. 

 

Fourth - one that you likely don't know - council tax records are part of ICE so if you are declaring that you are resident in the UK to bypass the pension freeze it will take the DWP a press of a button to discover your registered address. Another press of the ICE button will uncover your banking records, flight manifests etc. 

 

You cannot defeat ICE. 

 

After the bad news, now the good news. HMRC etc are far too busy to be chasing up every pension claimant. The people that get caught usually have an unexpected change in circumstances ( such as the person who they are registered as living with dying ), or the housing association discovering that an "unknown" person is living in the accommodation, or the "registered person" coming to the attention of social work support due to illness. Otherwise, someone would need to grass you into the authorities. 

 

There have been absurd cases where, for example, people sublet their own council house and use the profit to live in Thailand, then the council catches them out. You must be beyond stupid thinking you'd get away with that. 

 

However - this OP is approaching trolling territory. Mentioning the 55 year old and 61 year old is another absurdity. Who cares? They are nowhere near being affected by the pension freeze. 

 

And this forum has been tortured for decades by people moaning about the pension freeze that knew before they retired it applied in Thailand.  An utter waste of time as the governments ( including Labour ) have no interest in increasing their pension burden for people who choose to live overseas. They are delighted you have made the move and saved them a fortune. 

 

So sad, too bad. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure sounds like the government is looking over everyones shoulder.

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

 

I am canadian and I was quoting someone who said that canadian pensions, just as uk pensions, dont increase if you live abroad as in thailand...

You said:-" cant find anything to back what you said about canada. link please."

 

Sorry, but we were talking about UK pensions frozen in Thailand not Canadian pensions frozen in Thailand i.e. :- 

Most British Commonwealth countries are included in the frozen list;[8] these include countries, such as Australia, Canada .........

 

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about whether Canadian pensions are frozen in Thailnd. Have you tried Google?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27 by sambum

[simple1]

5 hours ago, sidjameson said:

You have premier league footballers paying tax on 50 million a year and an Albanian family next to my mother claiming every benefit going.  

This "net contribution" of a whole group is useless imo.

 

You may believe so, but data from HMG proves otherwise

[kiwikeith]

4 hours ago, delgarcon said:

I don't believe they would because it would be a waste of time. The passport holder is the  the only person that has the arrival and departure records inside the extra pages.

That machine you put your passport in tells immigration and the wellfare office straight away the moment you leave the country. 

[Paris333]

International Consortium of British Pensioners

 

This paper’s primary purpose is to provide CHOGM delegates an overview of the plight of Britain’s Second Class Pensioners who having decided to live overseas during their retirement, find that their Basic State Pensions are “frozen” by the British government based solely upon where they have decided to live.

Over 12,500,000 people receive the basic British State pension. ALL of them contributed similarly to that pension through their compulsory National Insurance Contributions (NICs).
The amount of pension they initially received, when reaching pension age, was directly proportional to the number of years for which they paid those Contributions.
Of those 12+ million pensioners, more than 1 million now live outside the UK – Overseas!
Over half of that 1+ million receive the same annual uprating as the pensioners still living in the UK, just as though they never left Britain. They live in places like the EEA, USA, the Philippines, Israel, Bosnia, Turkey etc and the Commonwealth’s Cyprus, Jamaica, Barbados, and Mauritius.
The other 550,000+, over 95% of whom live in Commonwealth countries like Australia,Canada, South Africa, Trinidad, India, Nigeria etc, do not receive any increases – EVER!
Their pensions are permanently frozen at the level at which they first received them in their present country of residence, solely because of where they have chosen to live in retirement.

Source:

https://www.narpo.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/International-Consortium-of-British-Pensioners-overview-of-pension-freeze-issue-for-British-Pensionsers-living-abroad.pdf

 

 

[SunsetT]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:26 PM, MicroB said:

 

And its possible, without having made no contributions in tax and national insurance, to return to the UK after a working career outside of it, and receive full benefit of that NHS.

 

Todays taxes are to pay for today's healthcare, not tomorrow's.

Only emergency treatment for the first six months.

 

[hunkidori]

1 hour ago, edwinchester said:

You can get the increased amount as soon as you return. If you stay in the UK for 6 months or longer the increase becomes permanent.

 

That's interesting. Is what you say fact or just what you think? 

 

 

[VBF]

7 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

That machine you put your passport in tells immigration and the wellfare office straight away the moment you leave the country. 

But you don't when you leave UK as has been stated above by me and others. 

When you return is a different matter of course.

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, VBF said:

Yes that is the case when leaving UK - happens to me every time.

HOWEVER, I believe the airlines report your departure

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-the-authorities-check-your-passport-when-you-exit-the-UK#:~:text=The UK doesn't run,checks could just be circumvented.

Interesting, thanks. I wonder what the person you quoted is on about.

Quote

As a result, the UK does not stamp anybody’s passport on exit. No exit stamp exists.

 

[sambum]

3 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

You think it's fair that expats who have 'paid in' don't get the full pension??

 

No,of course I don't, and if you agree with me you would realise that that's what I've been saying all along!

[delgarcon]

20 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

That machine you put your passport in tells immigration and the wellfare office straight away the moment you leave the country. 

And?

[Paris333]

Unfreezing the State Pension
The State Pension is increased to the current rate for any expat returning to the UK from a country where the payment is frozen.

Countries where the UK State Pension is uprated
Below is a list of countries that the UK government pay an increased state pension yearly:

Austria
Barbados
Belgium
Bermuda
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Chile
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Guernsey
Gibraltar)
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Isle of Man
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jersey
Kosovo
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Mauritius
Montenegro
Netherlands
North Macedonia
Norway
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
USA
These countries are European Economic Area and Switzerland and countries that have a social security agreement with the UK that allows for cost of living increases. The USA agreement covers American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands

Source:

https://www.iexpats.com/claim-uk-state-pension-expat-retired-overseas/#h-frozen-expat-state-pension-payments

 

So you do not live in European criminal financial gangsters area and for this reason U.K frozen your uprate pension.

I have worked in many countries of European criminal financial gangsters area and in Thailand - Malaysia and I advice you to live half months of the year in Bulgaria -Romania or Greece and the rest of months in Thailand.

In the coming few years Bulgaria will be number one country in industrial production in Europe but the first country will hit the roof in development and investments will be Romania and third country in services development will be Greece.

1.👉 Romania boom number one in development and investments 👈

2.👉 Bulgaria boom in industrial production 👈

3.👉 Greece boom in services development and hydrocarbon extraction. 👈

Edited April 27 by Paris333

[Lancelot01]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:33 PM, Rampant Rabbit said:

and who mostly never use the NHS saving the UK millions, its an absolute farce,

Not quite true.

I know of several Brits who have 'retired' in Thailand but return to UK regularly for free health checks, minor and major operations, collect prescribed medication etc.. 

[Caldera]

Isn't that "state pension" that low that frozen or unfrozen barely makes a difference? Google says £221.20 a week, so about 40,000 baht per month.

 

Someone who doesn't have additional income or assets cannot have a comfortable retirement on that money alone anyway.

 

[Keeps]

42 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Isn't that "state pension" that low that frozen or unfrozen barely makes a difference? Google says £221.20 a week, so about 40,000 baht per month.

 

Someone who doesn't have additional income or assets cannot have a comfortable retirement on that money alone anyway.

 

That's not the point though is it? Some people have it frozen at levels set some 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. Some people are receiving less than £100 per week. Regardless of what additional assets you may have, an extra 4-5,000 baht per week always comes in handy. 

[AreYouGerman]

Don't get mad about that, guys. It's one of the perks living in Thailand!

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

People asleep at the switch regarding their own finances. 

I also moved to Thailand in 2005 and never knew about the frozen annual OAP increases. It is not a thing you think about, if you read or heard about it while still living in the UK you would not believe it despite knowing what liars and hypocrites UK governments are.