Frozen pension policy turns British expat's dream into a nightmare

[transam]

13 hours ago, delgarcon said:

 A few years back I visited one of these health centers in the UK. I gave them my NH number and got 3 months of meds buckshee.

So.........?

Are you looking for.....................Or a pat on the back..?

People like you just don't understand that we ALL know what you can do if you are dodgy and a chancer, but me, I like to sleep at night, not look at the floor under the letterbox every morning..........

If you ever get nabbed, we will never hear about it here..........😋

[JonnyF]

Anyone who pays into government pension scheme is a mug IMO. 

 

Pay into it for 40+ years and you might get a few years where they give a pittance back assuming they don't raise the age again.

 

Better investing the money privately so you can control when you can get to it. Not wait until you're in your late 60's to get it then drop dead at 71. 

[keithkarmann]

On 4/26/2024 at 7:07 PM, BritManToo said:

Tell them you live in the Philippines then you get full 

 

[FruitPudding]

Just a failing socialist system. Surprise surprise.

 

British people are so financially illiterate,  it's sad.

[FruitPudding]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Anyone who pays into government pension scheme is a mug IMO. 

 

Pay into it for 40+ years and you might get a few years where they give a pittance back assuming they don't raise the age again.

 

Better investing the money privately so you can control when you can get to it. Not wait until you're in your late 60's to get it then drop dead at 71. 

 

Yes, but British people generally have zero clue about investing and if they live just a few years after retirement age, they've made their money back.

 

I do agree with you though

 

[transam]

12 hours ago, proton said:

 

 

How are thousands of illegal immigrants costing 8 million a day emptying bedpans and picking fruit? Close to one million immigrants a year is depressing, costing the UK 36 billion since 2020. No wonder there is no money to up rate pensions!

They have the money for pensions, just like they have the money to fight wars, build nuclear submarines, pay aid to many foreign countries.

 

If expats all moved to another country that had a reciprocal agreement, we would ALL get a full pension....

[transam]

10 hours ago, Caldera said:

Isn't that "state pension" that low that frozen or unfrozen barely makes a difference? Google says £221.20 a week, so about 40,000 baht per month.

 

Someone who doesn't have additional income or assets cannot have a comfortable retirement on that money alone anyway.

 

Why is that.........?

Some of us are not hi-so, and would probably be worse off if back in the UK.

Just look at the X's and cost of fish & chips.....😱

[transam]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Anyone who pays into government pension scheme is a mug IMO. 

 

Pay into it for 40+ years and you might get a few years where they give a pittance back assuming they don't raise the age again.

 

Better investing the money privately so you can control when you can get to it. Not wait until you're in your late 60's to get it then drop dead at 71. 

In the UK we all must pay National Insurance of some sort, that is where pensions come from.

Think I paid about 2 quid a week NI as class 2 self-employed, I get a full pension +.

Investing 2 quid would end up, not a lot....😁

[Pumpuynarak]

18 hours ago, delgarcon said:

For those of you that are already living here, as far as the uk gov is concerned, youve missed the boat I'm afraid. For those who are thinking about retiring in Thailand, here's some advice on how to keep your pension up to date.

1) Keep your UK bank account open to use for the payment of your pension

2)You need an address where HM Gov can write to you (a family member, an ex wife who still loves you😄 for example) who will e-mail you the correspondence, particularly life certs, which you can download, print and get the local pharmacist, for example,to sign and stamp.

3)You have 16 weeks from the date of the letter accompanying the certificate, to return the certificate IN THE BROWN ENVELOPE, which your co conspirator must keep and post when he/she receives the signed cert from you.

4)Keep a record of the dates of correspondence in case you get a letter from HM gov asking you where you have been living for the last year. You have to tell them you were in Thailand when you were sent the L.C. for example.

I don't believe that you will be asked for proof of where you were living (I wasn't), just make sure you don't drop yourself in it. Remember that the Pension service is very busy and that they're not going to waste time chasing a few quid. In 12 years I've never been asked why some of .my life certificates have been signed in Thailand.

 

If you are living in the UK you do not receive or have to complete a Proof of Life certificate.

[transam]

20 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Yes, but British people generally have zero clue about investing and if they live just a few years after retirement age, they've made their money back.

 

I do agree with you though

 

And what country does a FruitPudding come from..........😂

[superal]

15 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

The National Insurance act of 1946 stipulated that pensions would not be paid to UK citizens abroad unless they were in one of the "Dominions" of the UK

 

In 1948 the first pension increase was awarded.......but not to those living abroad.

 

It has been the same since then except where reciprocal arrangements have been made with particular countries.

 

Any UK citizen who has not taken the frozen pension into account when planning their future specifically in Thailand (no reciprocality in place) is indeed guilty as you have charged.

 

It was never going to be a good idea for anyone to rely solely (or even primarily for many) on a UK pension to live in Thailand.

 

 

1946 , very few people retired abroad , maybe only the wealthy so it did not concern the middle/ working class UK citizens .

Also the wealthy did not rely on the UK State pensions . Move forward 50 to 78 years and retiring abroad is not unpopular as the State pension is enough to live on in some countries . Certainly not sufficient to live on in the UK where benefits have to be claimed to supplement the State pension . Also many people move abroad because the warmer climates are conducive to their well being .  Indeed there has been cross party committees set up to unfreeze UK pensions , alas without success . The UK retirees living abroad are no longer a burden on the state which should be seen as a plus for the UK government  and should be encouraged as it lessens the load on the N.H.S. , frees up housing and additional benefits do not have to be paid . The C.O.E J. Hunt has done his sums and to unfreeze the pensions would directly amount to extra billions a year but he has not looked at the indirect benefits which would possibly counter the increase of unfreezing .

The frozen pension is seen by most people as unjust because where you live is your choice and having paid your contributions you are entitled to the annual pension along with any increases . The 1946 legislation needs updating . The UK State pensions is a right not a benefit .

[transam]

2 minutes ago, superal said:

1946 , very few people retired abroad , maybe only the wealthy so it did not concern the middle/ working class UK citizens .

Also the wealthy did not rely on the UK State pensions . Move forward 50 to 78 years and retiring abroad is not unpopular as the State pension is enough to live on in some countries . Certainly not sufficient to live on in the UK where benefits have to be claimed to supplement the State pension . Also many people move abroad because the warmer climates are conducive to their well being .  Indeed there has been cross party committees set up to unfreeze UK pensions , alas without success . The UK retirees living abroad are no longer a burden on the state which should be seen as a plus for the UK government  and should be encouraged as it lessens the load on the N.H.S. , frees up housing and additional benefits do not have to be paid . The C.O.E J. Hunt has done his sums and to unfreeze the pensions would directly amount to extra billions a year but he has not looked at the indirect benefits which would possibly counter the increase of unfreezing .

The frozen pension is seen by most people as unjust because where you live is your choice and having paid your contributions you are entitled to the annual pension along with any increases . The 1946 legislation needs updating . The UK State pensions is a right not a benefit .

I agree, but as the benefit status has not been altered, that's how it's going to stay..😢

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:51 PM, Keeps said:

The basic state pension first came about in 1948. As the DWP have stated that this rule has been in effect for over 70 years, it may have been incorporated at the outset. It probably would not have been an issue for the first couple of decades as not many people would have retired overseas. Now however, wholly unfair.

A sign every human being should put up where it is the first thing they see upon waking is

 

LIFE IS UNFAIR.

[Cabradelmar]

31 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

if you read or heard about it while still living in the UK you would not believe it

Well, it's been in affect 70 years... Since the 1950s. In this day in age, it's hard to believe that that many people don't understand their own benefits. Maybe if one hears or reads something (even if suspect) that's potentially concerning it's time to do one's own due diligence. Live and learn.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, superal said:

The UK State pensions is a right not a benefit .

It's only a right till it's not. Brits should count themselves lucky they can even get the pension in LOS. I can't and had to return back to home country because of it, much to my dismay. I thought I'd be able to but I wuz wrong.

[transam]

Some on here say DWP cannot stop pension payments. If they don't receive a Life-Cert within the 16 weeks, it is stopped, you have to get in touch with them to sort it out.

If there is a question mark, I have no doubt they will stop the payment till you sort it out.......🤒

Imagine on a pension fiddle, you're living in LOS, but at the address back home the fraud department knocked on the door for a chat with you........😲

 

"Oh, eeeer, he's on holiday", "Where", "eeeer, Thailand", "Yes, we thought he was, on a very long holiday"...........🤣

[superal]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

I agree, but as the benefit status has not been altered, that's how it's going to stay..😢

Sure however a change can be made and I would say a new tabled motion to unfreeze the pensions would not be opposed in the Commons or Lords .

[transam]

1 minute ago, superal said:

Sure however a change can be made and I would say a new tabled motion to unfreeze the pensions would not be opposed in the Commons or Lords .

Yes it can, but none of these well paid MP's do not seem to see the injustice.

Didn't a UK hi-so come over to LOS recently to shake hands with Thai hi-so's, now he knows full well us living here have been stuffed by pension law's.  🥴

 

Did he tell the Thai's....

"Oh, we don't pay upgraded pensions to our old retired folk here, they have to deal with it, they are on their own, but we do take care of your Thai folk who come to the UK, we are generous to all you foreigners"......🧐

[Pumpuynarak]

IMG_20200715_0001.pdf IMG_20200715_0002.pdf IMG_20200715_0004.pdf IMG_20200715_0003.pdf IMG_20200715_0005.pdf

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, Chivas said:

Nobody can have their state pension sanctioned in otherwards reduced or stopped so anyone claiming otherwise is talking bollacks (not yourself lol)

"Nobody can have their state pension ... stopped..."

 Bollacks.   You might want to check whether refusing to return a life certificate would result in the state pension being stopped!

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

I dunno,  but it probably involved their pussies.

Truncating what was said is a breach of the rules but why should that matter.

Many of the posts on this thread come from a lack of historical awareness. It is an unfortunate fact of life that many are oblivious to injustice and discrimination.

 

The Suffragettes were part of the ‘Votes for Women’ campaign that had long fought for the right of women to vote in the UK. They used art, debate, propaganda, and attack on property including window smashing and arson to fight for female suffrage.

https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/museum-london/explore/who-were-suffragettes#:~:text=The Suffragettes were part of,to fight for female suffrage.

[nong38]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:40 PM, orchis said:

I think 2000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_state_pension

I believe is was in 1955 when few people ever went abroad let alone retired there! That fits with the 70 years mentioned, all political parties do not seem to want to change the situation and it comes for extension every year in February I think it is.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, transam said:

In the UK we all must pay National Insurance of some sort, that is where pensions come from.

Think I paid about 2 quid a week NI as class 2 self-employed, I get a full pension +.

Investing 2 quid would end up, not a lot....😁

 

But you lived in the golden age.

 

I don't think NI is 2 quid a week any more. And the pension age is increasing. The payout is pathetic as well. 

 

The fact it is mandatory is just another big state money grab. 

 

I paid into it for 8 years and then fortunately escaped to Thailand. No national insurance, no tax on company car or fuel, and thanks to the ltr visa a flat rate of 17%. VAT also low. 

 

Viva thailand. 

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

I don't believe that Trans, I think there are things you have not been told. No one can take 1000 Quid from your state pension, as myself and others have said.

He didn't say that £1000 was deducted from his pension, he just said that it had to be paid.

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, VBer said:

You live in democracy, so why not choose the ones who will follow wishes of people (or force the current government to do so)?

The people cannot force the current government in power to do so and none of the others will necessarily follow the wishes of the people once they've been elected!   No party has ever categorically stated that it would stop all overseas pension freezes so there is no one to vote for on that subject.

 

Every government since the fifties has refused to increase frozen pensions and the UK-resident "people" certainly do not give a toss about a few moaning expat pensioners with self-inflicted financial injuries.

[superal]

33 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes it can, but none of these well paid MP's do not seem to see the injustice.

Didn't a UK hi-so come over to LOS recently to shake hands with Thai hi-so's, now he knows full well us living here have been stuffed by pension law's.  🥴

 

Did he tell the Thai's....

"Oh, we don't pay upgraded pensions to our old retired folk here, they have to deal with it, they are on their own, but we do take care of your Thai folk who come to the UK, we are generous to all you foreigners"......🧐

That was the UK foreign secretary David Cameron meeting with the Thai PM on promoting trade etc . Cameron was asked by the Thai PM if a reciprocal arrangement could be made on visas but DC declined to debate it .

The UK makes a significant handout to many countries under the "foreign aid budget " . Pity they don't consider their own people first . They turn a blind eye to their own impoverished pensioners but are happy to house  and care for illegal immigrants . So the highly paid UK government and elected MOP are really saying " I'm OK Jack " . Not to mention the House of Lords dinosaurs .

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Anyone who pays into government pension scheme is a mug IMO. 

A statement that could only come  from the young.

It wasn't until 1989 that a private individual could contract out of SERPS.

When it came about I was told it was too late not enough time left to get over the start up cost and produce any significant return. Remaining in SERPs was the better option, but at that point in time overseas retirement wasn't on the horizon.

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, Expat68 said:

I know quite a few Brits who are on the fiddle living in Thailand regarding their state pensions 

Who doesn't!?

[Liverpool Lou]

18 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

Has this policy changed recently?

 

I thought this was an old policy.

 

Why is everyone talking about it again now?

 

No.

 

It is.

 

God alone knows.

 

[Liverpool Lou]

18 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

How does this frozen pension thing affect guys who have been abroad decades?

Same way it affects those who have been abroad for five minutes.