1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I expect it might be the ‘living in fear bit’.

 

Nah.

 

Go with the collective punishment.

 

   I expect that its because the Palestinians support Hamas and their attempts to destroy Israel and they view Israel as the enemy .

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Actually one of the hostages escaped in Gaza for 4 days hiding but the Gazans then returned him to the terrorists!

 

"He managed to escape and to hide out, alone, for four days. He tried to reach the border. In the end, the Gazans caught him and returned him to the terrorists' hands."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-hostage-briefly-escaped-captors-after-building-was-bombed-family-says-2023-11-27/

https://archive.ph/D9o2o

And then a temporary truce secured his release.

 

So maybe continuing the carnage is not the only way to secure the release of the hostages.

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   I expect that its because the Palestinians support Hamas and their attempts to destroy Israel and they view Israel as the enemy .

Opinions differ.

 

It’s not an excuse for collective punishment.

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

And then a temporary truce secured his release.

 

So maybe continuing the carnage is not the only way to secure the release of the hostages.

The only thing standing in the way of stopping this war today is Hamas

 

. The protestor

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Maybe the Palestinians are living I fear of Hamas, which I think we all agree is a viscous bloodthirsty terrorist organization.

So wasn't this the perfect opportunity for the Palestinians to turn on their bloodthirsty terrorist leaders and help the Israelis destroy Hamas? 

Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome...

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Opinions differ.

 

It’s not an excuse for collective punishment.

Polls show a majority support Hamas. 

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

So wasn't this the perfect opportunity for the Palestinians to turn on their bloodthirsty terrorist leaders and help the Israelis destroy Hamas? 

Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome...

I think we both agree that Hamas are a viscous, bloody thirsty terrorist organization that will commit any heinous crimes without compunction.

 

If we can agree on that, what do you think would be the response of a Palestinian faced wit disobeying Hamas or obeying Hamas?

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Opinions differ.

 

It’s not an excuse for collective punishment.

 

   You are suggesting that Palestinian civilians   oppose Hamas and support Israel and the only reason why they don't fight against Hamas  is because they are living in fear of Hamas .

   How about you ?

Do you support Israel in their quest to wipe Hamas out , do you stand should to shoulder with the Palestinian civilians and the IDF fighting against Hamas ? 

25 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I expect it might be the ‘living in fear bit’.

 

Nah.

 

Go with the collective punishment.

There seems to be a persistent opinion that Hamas can be destroyed, eliminated.  Especially within the Netanyahu government, supported by Biden.

It's a fantasy. Sure you can kill as many Palestinians as you want, and convince yourself that have eliminated Hamas, and have achieved security for Israel. Sure.

In the meantime you have created generations of potential terrorists. And not just among Palestinians.

 

Those ideas (of destroying, eliminating Hamas) are simply a product of the systemic racism in the Netanyahu government, which is made obvious every single day.

With the unwavering support of Biden, of course.

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And then a temporary truce secured his release.

 

So maybe continuing the carnage is not the only way to secure the release of the hostages.

 

   There was a permanent ceasefire (from Israel) BEFORE the hostages were taken 

17 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You are suggesting that Palestinian civilians   oppose Hamas and support Israel and the only reason why they don't fight against Hamas  is because they are living in fear of Hamas .

   How about you ?

Do you support Israel in their quest to wipe Hamas out , do you stand should to shoulder with the Palestinian civilians and the IDF fighting against Hamas ? 

No I’m not, I said no such thing.

 

I argued Hamas are a blood thirsty terrorist group who will commit any heinous crime without compunction.

 

Palestinians very clearly have much to fear from Hamas who have a history of murdering Palestinians who oppose them.

 

I support Israel’s right to defend itself, I do not support Israel conducting open warfare killing tens of thousands of civilians.

 

I support a negotiated settlement and a two state solution.

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There was a permanent ceasefire (from Israel) BEFORE the hostages were taken 

I thought the pre-7/10 period was off limits. 
 

But if we are going there it wasn’t simply a ceasefire was it?

 

There was a lot of other stuff going on.

Oh and I support the world’s news media being permitted to send journalists into Gaza.

 

Let’s have a view independent of Hamas and independent of Israel.

 

I have yet to hear a single sensible argument against this.

7 minutes ago, Presto said:

There seems to be a persistent opinion that Hamas can be destroyed, eliminated.  Especially within the Netanyahu, supported by Biden.

It's a fantasy. Sure you can kill as many Palestinians as you want, and convince yourself that have eliminated Hamas, and have achieved security for Israel. Sure.

In the meantime you have created generations of potential terrorists. And not just among Palestinians.

 

Those ideas (of destroying, eliminating Hamas) are simply a product of the systemic racism in the Netanyahu government, which is made obvious every single day.

With the unwavering support of Biden, of course.

 

   Hamas military wing  as a group consisted of about 20 000 members , those responsible for the Oct 7 attack .

   They indeed can be wiped out , about 13 000 have already been killed and there are a few Hamas  battalions left in Gaza , they can be eliminated .

   Then it will just be the leadership abroad who need to be killed .

Once that mission is complete , Hamas will be wiped out .

    Palestinians will then be free from Hamas 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I thought the pre-7/10 period was off limits. 
 

But if we are going there it wasn’t simply a ceasefire was it?

 

There was a lot of other stuff going on.

Wasn't that the period when Netanyahu was supporting Hamas (divide and conquer, right?) and ignored the warnings of the plan that Hamas had?

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I thought the pre-7/10 period was off limits. 
 

But if we are going there it wasn’t simply a ceasefire was it?

 

There was a lot of other stuff going on.

 

   Point being that Hamas aren't going to release the hostages if its the same conditions as before the hostages were taken .

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Hamas military wing  as a group consisted of about 20 000 members , those responsible for the Oct 7 attack .

   They indeed can be wiped out , about 13 000 have already been killed and there are a few Hamas  battalions left in Gaza , they can be eliminated .

   Then it will just be the leadership abroad who need to be killed .

Once that mission is complete , Hamas will be wiped out .

    Palestinians will then be free from Hamas 

Nick, correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Two clear statements are frequently made.

 

1. Israel is fighting this war to wipe out Hamas.

 

2. The war will end when the hostages are released.

 

Which is correct?

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Point being that Hamas aren't going to release the hostages if its the same conditions as before the hostages were taken .

All things are negotiable.

 

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh and I support the world’s news media being permitted to send journalists into Gaza.

 

Let’s have a view independent of Hamas and independent of Israel.

 

I have yet to hear a single sensible argument against this.

 

   Your side wouldn't believe anything if it contradicts their opinion .

Any reports of no Famine in Gaza would be regarded as fake stories by the Jewish run media .

If they cant find famine , they would report on a shortage of toilet rolls or something 

 

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

All things are negotiable.

 

You just said:

 

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I argued Hamas are a blood thirsty terrorist group who will commit any heinous crime without compunction.

 

They also lie a lot, they broke the last hostage deal ceasefire after lying. They are a barrier to any deal for long term peace.

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nick, correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Two clear statements are frequently made.

 

1. Israel is fighting this war to wipe out Hamas.

 

2. The war will end when the hostages are released.

 

Which is correct?

 

   Number 1 is correct .

Although Israel may agree to end the war if all the hostages are unconditionally  released immediately  , who knows , But that's not going to happen anyway 

35 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   There was a permanent ceasefire (from Israel) BEFORE the hostages were taken 

For a ceasefire to exist there needs to be a war. You and many others have always stated October 7 was the start of the conflict, but now you're saying there was a war already.

20 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Your side wouldn't believe anything if it contradicts their opinion .

Any reports of no Famine in Gaza would be regarded as fake stories by the Jewish run media .

If they cant find famine , they would report on a shortage of toilet rolls or something 

 

My side?

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

For a ceasefire to exist there needs to be a war. You and many others have always stated October 7 was the start of the conflict, but now you're saying there was a war already.

Who are all these people who stated the conflict only started on Oct 7th?

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My side?

Mirror effect at its best! Cant expect anything from those pro Israel to see the reality of reasons and results of 70 years suppression of millions of people, and continuesly stealing land. 

 

Sad statue

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

For a ceasefire to exist there needs to be a war. You and many others have always stated October 7 was the start of the conflict, but now you're saying there was a war already.

 

   A permanent ceasefire means that there was no war going on .

I did say a permeant ceasefire , rather then just a temporary ceasefire 

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Mirror effect at its best! Cant expect anything from those pro Israel to see the reality of reasons and results of 70 years suppression millions of people, and continuesly stealing land. 

 

Sad statue

 

   We understand that the Palestinians got treated the way they did for a reason , reason being they they have been attacking Israel since Israel became a Country .

   Palestinians will keep fighting against Israel until they win and Israel no longer exists , their treatment has nothing to do with their actions 

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Who are all these people who stated the conflict only started on Oct 7th?

Lol, see Nick's post.

But you and many others have always maintained it started October 7. A convenient pov, but not realistic.

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Lol, see Nick's post.

But you and many others have always maintained it started October 7. A convenient pov, but not realistic.

I don't have to see Nick's post. You claimed many people stated the conflict started Oct7th. The conflict has been ongoing for years with at least 3 separate wars in between ceasefire periods. This is the latest war started by Hamas.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Lol, see Nick's post.

But you and many others have always maintained it started October 7. A convenient pov, but not realistic.

Not in your eyes anyway, posters that have the ability to understand reality will know that this conflict did indeed start on 7/10, for without 7/10 there would be no war. Hope this helps your understanding of the circumstances!