Self insured - what amount?

[FritsSikkink]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:04 PM, Mark Nothing said:

A daily prayer is much more valuable to good health. 

Sure, why not do 10 a day. 

[The Fugitive]

46 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

And there's other angles.  My Thai son had high level comprehensive cover with BUPA (now owned by another insurer).  Son got hurt playing football, got taken to a Thai gov't hospital. 

 

In prep. for discharge after several days stay and some surgery he asked for a med report to give to his health insurance company along with his claim.

 

Then the jackals descended:

 

- Have to give a sizeable tip to each of the nursing team for them to then ask the nursing senior about the med. report.

- Was also told the nursing snr would require an even bigger tip before she approached the doctors involved for med. reports.

- Was also told the 3 doctors involved would want to receive 10,000Baht each in advance plus a signed promise then would ultimately receive, in total about 60% of the refund from the health insurance company.

 

In the meantime the hospital accounting dept had given him a bill nearly 200,000Baht.

 

Son was quite intimidated and asked me what to do. I called the health insurance company, explained all of the above and asked for their advice.

 

Response from health company: you have to decide and there's nothing we can do to help.

 

Son then advised the hospital staff he had made a mistake, his policy had lapsed because family had not paid the most recent renewal, and he therefore had no insurance cover, and it was too late to renew.

 

And he told them 'I don't want any med. reports'. 

 

Hospital staff then expressed anger and let him know, along with several nasty comments about farang (he is a Thai citizen but his family name is a typical farang name).

Blimey! At a government hospital, a bill for 200,000 baht. What on earth would a private hospital have billed him?

[QuantumQuandry]

43 minutes ago, natway09 said:

If no family here to guarantee payment & you are in a coma waiting to have life saving surgery how does the hospital even know that you have monay in the bank ?

Better to have a minimal policy (say 80K premium per annum) & then can sort out the rest later.

 

I would think...just as easy to carry a credit card as an insurance card.  Maybe better as they don't need to call and get pre-authorization for anything?

[QuantumQuandry]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Then the jackals descended

 

If I may ask, what hospital was it?

[Bigz]

You just die when the time comes. Cheap.

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

If I may ask, what hospital was it?

Sorry but I'm not comfortable to share the hospital name, but the premises recently, for several months, had a 'special guest convict' in residence.

 

At the time my son was taken there I was working on a project in Singapore, his buddy called me, I took the next flight back to BKK and went straight to the hospital.

 

Took some time for the admin. to find his name and I was escorted (felt like an alien) to his ward, which had no air-con and no fans, just open windows. I mentioned that he had good health insurance which would more than cover the cost of an air-con room.

 

A senior was called and explained (very arrogantly) that air-con rooms are reserved for very senior gov't officials and family. Plus 'you are farang, also your son so your son doesn't qualify for an air-con room. I explained my son was born in Thailand and his mother was a Thai citizen. response:  'I don't believe you it's illegal for Thai citizens to have farang family names'. End of discussion.  

 

I quickly bought many large floor fans and had them delivered to the ward. The Snr. nurse rejected them rudely and said in English 'mind your own business' and she called some labour staff to immediately take the fans away. Where they went I never discovered. I do realize that it would have been better to ask first but I was in panic to get some relief with some air movement around my sons bed and for others in the ward. 

 

 

[Celsius]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:53 PM, AreYouGerman said:

First line of defense against health issues should be 1 hour cardio daily and no gluttony and no alcohol.

 

yea whatever. been running for 25 years. just turned 50. my right knee is busted from what I can only assume is decades of running.

[JontS]

4 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

I have insurance and his last year I used it twice for some major surgery. They covered at 100% no problem TT.

Which company do you use and what is your age?

[Ralf001]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

If hospitals didn't over charge insurers may not charge so much, obvious no?

My hospital bills last year.. totaled 6+ million covered by insurance.... was that an overcharge ?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

My hospital bills last year.. totaled 6+ million covered by insurance.... was that an overcharge ?

Who knows.................🤗

[dontpanic]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:13 PM, Ben Zioner said:

33 years of family coverage, with OPD.

Hi, could you tell me which company this is please.

[Simon1287]

On 5/3/2024 at 5:58 PM, Jimjim1 said:

So the poster should be more than 100%honest with the insurance company and talk to a manager to negotiate a favourable outcome.

There are many companies and agents on the British market who are happy to cover pre-existing so if he is in the UK he should talk with them about annual cover with £10,000,000 being a minimum.

If it costs £300 to £500 per annum it is still very good and cheap for £10,000,000, personally I would be happy to pay £1,000 for that level of cover, but then that’s just me.

 

Now it’s time for the cheap Charlie idiots to put the befuddled  emoticon on here.

 

Easy to get annual emergency cover for that kind of money if you are say, a UK citizen, have a UK address, are registered with a UK doctor and are mid 60's or under. 

 

The problem comes when you get to about 66 or so. Then they don't want to know you on long term stays at anything like that low price.

 

As a guess, if anyone really had to self insure, I would throw the figure of 4 or 5 million Baht in the ring as the minimum that should get you out of 99% of problems. I have personally known farangs over the years who have spent over 5 million Baht on one hospital stay, rare though that is.. Long term in ICU / intensive care after stroke or road accident etc etc. Then they may have the problem of needing an air ambulance home. Mega money. (Would be interested to hear what Sheryl has to say on that)

 

I would never go to Thailand without some kind of insurance anyway. Many companies will give lower prices the higher the excess you will pay.

 

Health insurance concerns are one of the reasons I am now, after a very long time in Thailand, splitting my time between there and UK.

 

I could self insure at the sum I mentioned easily enough but much as I love Thailand it's just not as much as I used to, what with all the air pollution and changes there over the years, and certainly not 4 million Bahts worth. 

 

Going for 3 months at a time still only costs me something like £300 in travel insurance for millions of GBP of medical cover.

 

For some strange reason, after more than 30 years of hating going back to the UK and gagging to get back to Thailand anytime I had to, it just doesn't seem so bad anymore. A shadow of it's former self though it is it will take care of me if I fall down now I am getting older rather than telling me to drop dead unless I can pay enough, as in Thailand.

 

Yes, the weather can leave a lot to be desired but compared to the deadly air pollution in Thailand these days it's actually preferable a lot of the time. 

 

Not that cold weather worries me when I make sure the UK house is at least 25 degrees day and night anyway.

 

[Ben Zioner]

2 minutes ago, dontpanic said:

Hi, could you tell me which company this is please.

Cigna, but offered through my former employer, hence based on a population of 4000 to 5000 members of all age groups.

[AreYouGerman]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

 

yea whatever. been running for 25 years. just turned 50. my right knee is busted from what I can only assume is decades of running.

 

I wouldn't recommend running, though 😊

 

Elliptical for the win!

[ujayujay]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:30 PM, Ben Zioner said:

After over 300 claims I am still waiting to get denied.. Where did you get this utter nonsense from?

People like you are the problem for every insured person! Make insurance almost unaffordable for the average citizen and seem to run to the doctor for every little thing!

[pdinbkk]

My 2 cents. If you can't afford the medical bills here, don't live here.   Thailand has better medical care than most places in the world.  The standard of care here is way better than the US, and most western countries (and I can attest, as a California native). If you are paying out of pocket for elective care here, then it's cheaper here than the US or most other "fee for service" countries (at least those I've lived in -- and that's quite a few).  

For emergency situations, the fees here are very reasonable, even if you are not covered by Thai government healthcare.  I do understand fellow Americans and others that don't understand the concept of universal healthcare, who worry about being bankrupted for even minor ailments - but I guess that is a symptom and legacy of where we come from.  My experience of the Thai (government) medical system has been nothing short of amazingly good!  Yes, there is lots of waiting time in government hospitals (given the number of patients), but ultimately, the level of care and the access to specialists and high quality medical care is more than I would get in the US (or Australia - where I am also a citizen).  I am a farang that has worked in Thailand for 30+ years, and have standard Social Security medical insurance as a result of being an employee in Thailand. Yes, for me that gives me priority and guaranteed medical care.

But, perhaps more relevant, is the access to outstanding healthcare that my extended family (who are not covered) has had over the many visits to Thailand where required (and often used).  In all of those cases, there was no medical insurance involved. We have always self-insured.  The fee for service and standard of care has been nothing short of outstanding, and very reasonable from a cost perspective.  For nervous nellies, go ahead and pay ridiculous amounts to some Insurance company that may or may not pay out when stuff happens. We will stick to the Thai government healthcare provided by provincial Thai government hospitals.  We have only ever experienced amazingly good healthcare services better than we would get in California or in Sydney.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

My hospital bills last year.. totaled 6+ million covered by insurance.... was that an overcharge ?

Please share, what was the premium, and premium for this year?

[scorecard]

48 minutes ago, pdinbkk said:

My 2 cents. If you can't afford the medical bills here, don't live here.   Thailand has better medical care than most places in the world.  The standard of care here is way better than the US, and most western countries (and I can attest, as a California native). If you are paying out of pocket for elective care here, then it's cheaper here than the US or most other "fee for service" countries (at least those I've lived in -- and that's quite a few).  

For emergency situations, the fees here are very reasonable, even if you are not covered by Thai government healthcare.  I do understand fellow Americans and others that don't understand the concept of universal healthcare, who worry about being bankrupted for even minor ailments - but I guess that is a symptom and legacy of where we come from.  My experience of the Thai (government) medical system has been nothing short of amazingly good!  Yes, there is lots of waiting time in government hospitals (given the number of patients), but ultimately, the level of care and the access to specialists and high quality medical care is more than I would get in the US (or Australia - where I am also a citizen).  I am a farang that has worked in Thailand for 30+ years, and have standard Social Security medical insurance as a result of being an employee in Thailand. Yes, for me that gives me priority and guaranteed medical care.

But, perhaps more relevant, is the access to outstanding healthcare that my extended family (who are not covered) has had over the many visits to Thailand where required (and often used).  In all of those cases, there was no medical insurance involved. We have always self-insured.  The fee for service and standard of care has been nothing short of outstanding, and very reasonable from a cost perspective.  For nervous nellies, go ahead and pay ridiculous amounts to some Insurance company that may or may not pay out when stuff happens. We will stick to the Thai government healthcare provided by provincial Thai government hospitals.  We have only ever experienced amazingly good healthcare services better than we would get in California or in Sydney.

 

From above:

 

"...more than I would get in the US (or Australia - where I am also a citizen).  I am a farang that has worked in Thailand for 30+ years, and have standard Social Security medical insurance as a result of being an employee in Thailand. Yes, for me that gives me priority and guaranteed medical care."

 

Also very long-term and I am a continuing member of the Thai Social Security Injury and Sickness benefits scheme and I pay 432Baht a month. Excellent service. I agree wait time is a bit longer than a so called 'Thailand 5 star hospital), but it well tolerable. 

 

Also a citizen of Australia and I confirm the Australian Medicare national system is first class and basically free. Only better i've seen is a short stay in a Sydney hospital using my Australian Dept of Veterans Affairs (DVA) gold health card (I am a Vietnam war Veteran). Superb medical care, best specialists and very professional very attentive nursing care, services, facilities. Totally free. Even a free taxi to go home. 

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

My hospital bills last year.. totaled 6+ million covered by insurance.... was that an overcharge ?

no idea but i know you like talking about it

[Jimjim1]

18 hours ago, Simon1287 said:

The problem comes when you get to about 66 or so. Then they don't want to know you on long term stays at anything like that low price.

I am 77 now and I pay an age extension on annual health travel which was £165 in total for £10,000,000 cover for last year and allows me 90 days per trip which is fine for me as I have to come back to the UK regularly and never stay longer than 60 days anyway.

It may well be more this year as all insurance has rocketed in the UK now so just waiting to see what it will be on renewal but I do not expect more than £200 and well worth it for the peace of mind.

 

[Celsius]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

Also a citizen of Australia and I confirm the Australian Medicare national system is first class and basically free.

 

I noticed that only Americans love to praise Thai healthcare system for one reason only. It is cheaper than in America. Meanwhile they are completely clueless about the rest of the world.

[SingAPorn]

It's just a racket to force foreigners to purchase hefty health insurance premiums with Thai companies. That's why they push in all kind of absurd requisites for foreigners and their health insurance, despite the fact that all those insured say in Europe and by law, have health compulsory social security health insurance that covers them worldwide and not less then the required 50'000$ should their condition be necessary.

 

Except that most health insurance firms abroad do not mention specific amounts in their insurance statements and that is used to challenge foreigners health care.  However more and more foreigners and wealthy global pensionners are wondering if the ultimate goal is mainly to force you to purchase extra health insurance in Thailand, despite you having very good health insurance abroad.

 

One may understand this stance for people living full time in Thailand, but it is totally absurd to have such requirements for people who come in,  only for the winter months. No problem, as these wealthy retirees or professionnals will chose other countries for the winter months and spend their money elsewhere.

[rumak]

On 5/9/2024 at 4:42 PM, simon43 said:

[quote]

If it costs £300 to £500 per annum it is still very good and cheap for £10,000,000,

[/quote]

 

Cheap?  Please be realistic!  A healthy person aged say 50 years old would probably have to pay an annual premium of about $2,000 for perhaps $3 million cover.  An 'unhealthy person' would either have all his/her pre-existing conditions excluded or would have to pay a hefty extra premium.

 

Please show the company that will insure an expat for 10 million quid at 300 quid a year.

 

Hi Simon ........ didn't you have a VERY STRESSFUL  experience with your insurance company ?   About a year or so ago ?    I remember an ongoing disaster that you described in detail here on this forum at that time .  

I do believe you did not "win" ... were denied coverage.... and had to go back to your country .  ( my facts may not be accurate,  but maybe you can share here)

Certainly i think that your example would be very important to this discussion about whether anyone who "does not pay an insurance company"   is crazy

[Simon1287]

2 hours ago, Jimjim1 said:

I am 77 now and I pay an age extension on annual health travel which was £165 in total for £10,000,000 cover for last year and allows me 90 days per trip which is fine for me as I have to come back to the UK regularly and never stay longer than 60 days anyway.

It may well be more this year as all insurance has rocketed in the UK now so just waiting to see what it will be on renewal but I do not expect more than £200 and well worth it for the peace of mind.

 

 

Yes, short term visits i.e 90 days are no problem at quite reasonable costs but even so the price you mentioned seems very reasonable indeed at age 77. Is this a company you have been with for many years? Would you let us know who it is? 

 

I was on an annual policy with a UK company that allowed me to stay in Thailand the full year and could renew while in Thailand but that had to end at age 66 and the final years cost was still only about £500 for £5 or £10 million GBP in medical cover, repatriation etc. Less than £10 a week.

 

It's when you get over that 90 days that the costs start getting silly for people almost 70 and when you do actually get to about 70 the 90 days is about all you are likely to get I think at the lower costs.

 

I haven't really taken the trouble to look into it all carefully so there are almost certainly better options than I have found so far but, like yourself, I am now going to split my time between UK and Thailand so 90 days is fine for me, knowing I can go back to UK or back to Thailand any morning I wake up and decide to go.

 

 

[Jimjim1]

44 minutes ago, Simon1287 said:

haven't really taken the trouble to look into it all carefully so there are almost certainly better options than I have found so far but, like yourself, I am now going to split my time between UK and Thailand so 90 days is fine for me, knowing I can go back to UK or back to Thailand any morning I wake up and decide to go.

Simon, PM me

[mrwebb8825]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:25 AM, JontS said:

Planning a move to Thailand, most likely next year and it looks like health insurance is a complete waste of money, as almost every claim will be denied due to pre-existing condition, even if there is none. 

 

For those of you that self insure, what amount have you put aside?

 

Thanks, Jon

A 10 second google search:

 

https://www.axa.co.th/en/international-exclusive

 

https://www.thailand-health-insurance.com/coverage/pre-existing/

 

https://ten-pac.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-health-insurance-in-thailand/

 

etc. all cover pre-existing conditions and are in Thailand.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

On 5/9/2024 at 12:36 PM, The Fugitive said:

Blimey! At a government hospital, a bill for 200,000 baht. What on earth would a private hospital have billed him?

In private hospitals it's an organised racket targetting the foreigners. Why else do you think they fuss so much here on foreigners health insurance to mention specifically  the well known "no less then xxx$ coverage."  Despite the fact that all western europeans have top level healthcare that by their countries laws,  are amongst the best coverages in the world...

[JontS]

10 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

A 10 second google search:

 

https://www.axa.co.th/en/international-exclusive

 

https://www.thailand-health-insurance.com/coverage/pre-existing/

 

https://ten-pac.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-health-insurance-in-thailand/

 

etc. all cover pre-existing conditions and are in Thailand.

Interesting, I didn't know you get insurance that covered pre-existing conditions. Any idea what they cost?

[Gottfrid]

On 5/9/2024 at 2:16 PM, Freddy42OZ said:

33 years is 396 month, so it's less than one claim per month

And what did I post? I posted Over 1 claim every 2 month. Mean more than 1 claim during 60 days, which is also less than 1 claim per month. So, it seems to be no problem with my skills.

Yours, on the other hand. Let´s say, I am glad you are not an advisor in my company. On the other hand, you would not even reach the threshold. 

[FritsSikkink]

On 5/9/2024 at 4:48 PM, scorecard said:

 

And there's other angles.  My Thai son had high level comprehensive cover with BUPA (now owned by another insurer).  Son got hurt playing football, got taken to a Thai gov't hospital. 

 

In prep. for discharge after several days stay and some surgery he asked for a med report to give to his health insurance company along with his claim.

 

Then the jackals descended:

 

- Have to give a sizeable tip to each of the nursing team for them to then ask the nursing senior about the med. report.

- Was also told the nursing snr would require an even bigger tip before she approached the doctors involved for med. reports.

- Was also told the 3 doctors involved would want to receive 10,000Baht each in advance plus a signed promise then would ultimately receive, in total about 60% of the refund from the health insurance company.

 

In the meantime the hospital accounting dept had given him a bill nearly 200,000Baht.

 

Son was quite intimidated and asked me what to do. I called the health insurance company, explained all of the above and asked for their advice.

 

Response from health company: you have to decide and there's nothing we can do to help.

 

Son then advised the hospital staff he had made a mistake, his policy had lapsed because family had not paid the most recent renewal, and he therefore had no insurance cover, and it was too late to renew.

 

And he told them 'I don't want any med. reports'. 

 

Hospital staff then expressed anger and let him know, along with several nasty comments about farang (he is a Thai citizen but his family name is a typical farang name).

 

He got a bill from the hospital, should be enough (has been for me for years).

My son, my son, my son....... where was you all the time?