Self insured - what amount?

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

He got a bill from the hospital, should be enough (has been for me for years).

My son, my son, my son....... where was you all the time?

 

Which hospital are you referring to?

 

My son was not a child, at the time he was a Thai university senior, well capable of discussing his affairs and wanting to take care of his situation.  

 

[newbee2022]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:25 PM, JontS said:

Planning a move to Thailand, most likely next year and it looks like health insurance is a complete waste of money, as almost every claim will be denied due to pre-existing condition, even if there is none. 

 

For those of you that self insure, what amount have you put aside?

 

Thanks, Jon

Of course you can have an insurance which will cover your preconditions.

However, if you want to provide money for hospital you would need more than 300 pounds a month.🙏

[khunjeff]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:42 PM, Gottfrid said:

Yes, like over 1 claim every 2 month. Sure dude!

 

There were occasions when I had close to 150 claims in a single year (daily physical therapy to recover use of an injured hand). So yes, it does happen - and even more so when you're including small children, as he did.

[treetops]

4 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

There were occasions when I had close to 150 claims in a single year (daily physical therapy to recover use of an injured hand)

 

That would be multiple appointments/bills covered in one claim in my experience.

[decline]

I don't have yet as my next job will cover me, maybe 10000 baht for a coma etc.

 

Was waiting in a government hospital the other day thinking, if I collapsed and was unconscious, would they take me to the ER room or drive me to the nearest Bangkok Hospital

 

(Serious question)

[2ndhomepattaya]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:28 PM, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

If a policyholder really does not have any pre-existing conditions according to the policy's definition of such, on what basis would an insurer exclude a claim due to a pre-existing condition?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can easily happen. If you happen to have a TIA for example you immediately enter the world of "you should have known as it takes years to build up you you most certainly will not have any prior symptoms. You, according to the insurer it is an existing condition.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, 2ndhomepattaya said:

Can easily happen. If you happen to have a TIA for example you immediately enter the world of "you should have known as it takes years to build up you you most certainly will not have any prior symptoms. You, according to the insurer it is an existing condition.

 

Yes, depending upon the policy wording, an undetected condition that existed at the inception of the policy may be a pre-existing condition according to the definition of such in the policy and therefore excluded. It was still a condition that existed at inception even if no symptoms had yet manifested and the insured was unaware.

 

Some insurers have more liberal definitions, some have more restrictive, and some impose waiting periods for certain conditions. It pays to read the policy and know how it defines pre-existing conditions.

 

Again, if there really were no pre-existing condition then there would not be a basis to deny a claim.

 

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, decline said:

I don't have yet as my next job will cover me, maybe 10000 baht for a coma etc.

 

Was waiting in a government hospital the other day thinking, if I collapsed and was unconscious, would they take me to the ER room or drive me to the nearest Bangkok Hospital

 

(Serious question)

The govt hospital would treat you, it's the ambulances who would prioritise one of the Bangkok hospitals most likely, in your example no need for them

[The Fugitive]

3 hours ago, decline said:

I don't have yet as my next job will cover me, maybe 10000 baht for a coma etc.

 

Was waiting in a government hospital the other day thinking, if I collapsed and was unconscious, would they take me to the ER room or drive me to the nearest Bangkok Hospital

 

(Serious question)

I have practical experience of this. I was in the waiting area of my Government Regional Hospital having taken my Thai mother-in-law there for an out-patient appointment. I felt faint and nauseous. Next thing I was being lifted upon a trolley and wheeled into the casualty dept. They took my vitals and placed me on a drip. Apparently, my blood glucose level had fallen dramatically. After seeing a doctor and being monitored until my blood glucose level returned to normal I was discharged with a bill of 800 baht. Excellent service!

[2ndhomepattaya]

1 hour ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

Yes, depending upon the policy wording, an undetected condition that existed at the inception of the policy may be a pre-existing condition according to the definition of such in the policy and therefore excluded. It was still a condition that existed at inception even if no symptoms had yet manifested and the insured was unaware.

 

Some insurers have more liberal definitions, some have more restrictive, and some impose waiting periods for certain conditions. It pays to read the policy and know how it defines pre-existing conditions.

 

Again, if there really were no pre-existing condition then there would not be a basis to deny a claim.

 

The problem is, most 70+ years old have several pre-conditions known or unknown to them. When I approached a major insurer some years ago and even had a physical at the BH, my reading very pretty good, they decided that a reading of 97 was pre-diabetes and 120-130 high BP. My GP just shook his head. Needless to say, I decided all the exclusions.

[khunPer]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:25 PM, JontS said:

Planning a move to Thailand, most likely next year and it looks like health insurance is a complete waste of money, as almost every claim will be denied due to pre-existing condition, even if there is none. 

 

For those of you that self insure, what amount have you put aside?

 

Thanks, Jon

It's relative compared to your health condition and financials. IMO, the original non-OA demand for 440,000 baht health insurance seems like a fair lower amount set aside in easy accessible cash for self-insurance, when prepared to use government hospitals. Be aware to refill, if any money is used – self-insurance is not like insurance, where the full amount is available again next year or next incident – and also to regularly top up for inflation-protection, for example by a monthly amount, just like paying to an insurance company.

 

Others. with expert knowledge about health in Thailand, have mentioned 3 million baht as necessary amount set aside for self-insurance; presumed when using private hospitals. It's also the insurance level for non-OA today.

 

Health insurance premiums might raise to a relative quite high level for aging healthy people, especially if living on a budget, where the money seems lost. However, you need some kind of rainy day-account with a reasonable deposit to be self insured, and also still to top up the deposit for both inflation -protection and any withdrawals.

[Ralf001]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Which hospital are you referring to?

 

My son was not a child, at the time he was a Thai university senior, well capable of discussing his affairs and wanting to take care of his situation.  

 

Sounds like BS to me.

[Ralf001]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:58 AM, scorecard said:

Please share, what was the premium, and premium for this year?

750 a month is the cost.

[scubascuba3]

8 minutes ago, 2ndhomepattaya said:

The problem is, most 70+ years old have several pre-conditions known or unknown to them. When I approached a major insurer some years ago and even had a physical at the BH, my reading very pretty good, they decided that a reading of 97 was pre-diabetes and 120-130 high BP. My GP just shook his head. Needless to say, I decided all the exclusions.

interesting point that, maybe a potential insurer will provide a list of readings that means a pre-existing condition, could use recent test results as an indicator 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

28 minutes ago, 2ndhomepattaya said:

The problem is, most 70+ years old have several pre-conditions known or unknown to them. When I approached a major insurer some years ago and even had a physical at the BH, my reading very pretty good, they decided that a reading of 97 was pre-diabetes and 120-130 high BP. My GP just shook his head. Needless to say, I decided all the exclusions.

 

Yeah, insurers are allowed to set their own underwriting guidelines and in many cases they use  thresholds for certain conditions that are lower than those used to indicate clinical disease.

 

Almost all 70+ have pre-existing conditions, even if they aren't always aware of them. It's how the body ages.

 

Commercial insurance is a poor risk transfer mechanism for the over-60 set. The cost of covering everything regardless of whether pre-existing or not would put the premium out of reach for most people. Even the US, that bastion of capitalism, throws the oldies onto the back of the taxpayer via Medicare when they reach the end of their working life and start to have all the age-related conditions that commercial insurers exclude. There just isn't a good solution in the commercial insurance market.

[mrwebb8825]

15 hours ago, JontS said:

Interesting, I didn't know you get insurance that covered pre-existing conditions. Any idea what they cost?

click the links and ask. I've heard of coverage ranging from 40k-80k THB a year. Seems a better use of of the 3m-10m THB sitting in a Thai (or other) bank when you could die at any time. Eat, drink, party and be merry for you might not wake up tomorrow.

[JontS]

3 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

click the links and ask. I've heard of coverage ranging from 40k-80k THB a year. Seems a better use of of the 3m-10m THB sitting in a Thai (or other) bank when you could die at any time. Eat, drink, party and be merry for you might not wake up tomorrow.

Good point, thanks for the information 🤗

[Presnock]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:53 PM, AreYouGerman said:

First line of defense against health issues should be 1 hour cardio daily and no gluttony and no alcohol.

 

Also, an accident insurance could help a lot and will cover the most likely situations, as this could have serious consequences if you are f.ex. unconscious. They will leave you to die if you don't have a credit card with substantial limits.

 

Outpatient stuff is like 50k per year, heart attacks will cost probably 1-2 million THB, for stuff like cancer you need a plan B as it can get expensive quickly, something like declare bankruptcy in your passport country and get free health insurance.

 

Yes I agree, I have a US health insurance which I would use if any serious illness for me or my family.  I also have accident insurance for us as it is rather cheap, just like during COVID we unlike being in the US could get treated easily for free - here the COVID insurance was less than 20USD - wife had to spend 5 days in the hospital and it was almost totally covered.  Just saying, like mentioned above a healthy lifestyle helps but then again the pollution in this country nowadays is scary for one's future health.  Good luck as a serious illness here could really hurt financially as many tourists and expats have learned.

[retarius]

I find the insurance policies in Thailand don't meet my needs at all, and are generally rip offs. I have a slew of illnesses and insurance winds up covering none of my illnesses, so I self insure. I have a US$ 400K investment off-shore in the event of health emergencies and I have a living will in Thai and English prepared to prevent, if at all possible, all the blatantly useless surgeries that private hospitals perform at the end of life. It spells out I wish to die at home in my own bed. I also have a contract with the lawyer who drafted it to visit the hospital to try to ensure that my wishes are carried out....and he's a bit of a bastard to be honest which is why I picked him. 

In addition between my wife and I we have about US$1 million in assets here in Thailand but I wish to avoid using this for my health costs. This sum for my wife to live on after I die. 

[Presnock]

On 5/9/2024 at 6:19 PM, Celsius said:

 

yea whatever. been running for 25 years. just turned 50. my right knee is busted from what I can only assume is decades of running.

Yessir know where you are coming from...I was a runner for over 50 years, did a couple of marathons (body responded by no more of those) so ran half marathons and weekly races of 10-15 K races.  Daily after 55 ran 5-10 miles a day every morning except thunderstorms.  Then at 65 I thought to myself that since I only ran on sidewalks and roads, I was probably going to have to have my knees replaced in the future so I started just walking - 8-16 kms a day.  Did that until I intentionallylost 15 kilos - now I have maintain that weight - I am 77 doing 6 kms a day 7500+ steps as one of the latest studies says this is the

optimum though if I do more, I may extend life around 1-2% a year.  Walking is just normal for mankind...I check my heart rate, no problems, BP well within range for someone much younger and enjoy those walks plus I lift light weights several times a week and since I stopped running even have definition and bulking up a tad.  I eat according the Dr. Li's best sellers and blv Thailand has to be one of the best places to be to get the great fruits and other benefits from good healthy meals.  Only real problem here is the pollution so I run with a surgical N95 mask.  Good luck

[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic posts containing petty bickering have been removed as they were in violation of our Community Standards.

[save the frogs]

On 5/3/2024 at 2:35 PM, theblether said:

fell off a motorbike,

maybe stop engaging in dangerous activities 

[Chivas]

14 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

maybe stop engaging in dangerous activities 

 

Comical the other day debating with another guy here on asean who had a policy covering riding motorbikes up to a certain size limit

His bike was under so no problem

 

When I said what about your licence he's like what are you talking about I'm covered up to 200 cc. I said yes but you've got to have a bike licence in the first place as the Insurance Companies first question via claims will be "Does the rider have the appropriate licence"

 

No no no he says policy says I can ride. You can lead a horse to water.....

 

The conversation ended with him saying you dont know what the f**k you're talking about lol

[save the frogs]

On 5/4/2024 at 3:03 AM, JeffersLos said:

My 2 sons are under strict instruction to let nature take its course. Passing away is natural, it happens to everyone. I've made it to old age and am happy with my life both past and present. My sons will be well taken care of and will be secure throughout their life. Why waste money trying to change nature when the end result is the same either way, and the chances are the company will wriggle its way out of it and the money you spent might as well have been flushed down the toilet. 

I think there was a doctor who said if he gets cancer after 75, he wont get treated.

 

Maybe in some cases, it's best to leave money to your children rather than spend exorbitant amounts eking out a few more years of life. 

 

[save the frogs]

3 minutes ago, Chivas said:

The conversation ended with him saying you dont know what the f**k you're talking about lol

most people will not give up their motorbikes.

it's an emotional thing. doesnt matter how many facts you present.

fortunately, i dont have a fetish for motorbikes.

 

[Chivas]

49 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

most people will not give up their motorbikes.

it's an emotional thing. doesnt matter how many facts you present.

 

 

 

It'll be a very emotional day for them when unwittingly they are the cause of a multiple car crash of high end motors or god forbid kill someone when the bill is presented to them when the insurer denies the claim !

 

So many seem to ride bikes around Pattaya half pissed with no thought to the financial consequence of causing accidents and deaths. Mind boggling

Edited May 12 by Chivas

[Ralf001]

55 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

most people will not give up their motorbikes.

it's an emotional thing. doesnt matter how many facts you present.

fortunately, i dont have a fetish for motorbikes.

 

A fetish I do have, unfortunately not the room.

This GSXR1000 is a bargain !

[save the frogs]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

This GSXR1000 is a bargain !

so you have proper insurance?

10 million baht stashed away for self-insurance?

I like Vespas. But wouldnt ride one for safety.  

[swissie]

Main thing remains:

If you live in the "sticks", in case of "stroke" or "heart attak" you are always too far away from the nearest hospital.

Living in Bangkok: By the time an Ambulance reaches your home, under such circumstances, you can only be declared as "death on arrival" due to constant "traffic chaos".

Conclusion: Die quickly or carry paperwork with you that shows that you have insurance for 5 mill Bht or have 5 mill Bht in your wallet.

Otherwise you will be classified as a "pennieless farang". Probably the worst thing that can happen to a Farang.

[The Fugitive]

9 hours ago, swissie said:

If you live in the "sticks", in case of "stroke" or "heart attak" you are always too far away from the nearest hospital.

Interesting (and worrying of course). I'm usually either 300 metres or 900 metres away from our local community hospital depending whether I'm in the wife's shop or at home. Additionally, her shop is opposite a First Responder base and a nurses 'surgery'. I'd always believed that, at those distances, I would have a good chance of being saveable. I know that our community hospital only has one GP who is tied up all day. I'm assuming that the A/E dept. have at least one doctor available 24/7? I'm thinking that the problem at local level would not be lack of drugs but maybe equipment and specialist skills?