Self insured - what amount?

[AreYouGerman]

1 minute ago, Chivas said:

 

Perfect example of my "dont burn your bridges" phrase I use so much as regards homeland

 

Having had cancer myself in the bladder I know only too well the symptoms and whilst I've had very minor scares since 2002 its nor reoccured per se

 

The first real signs that it had then it would be that one ticket home Emailing my Doctors practice of which I've kept on the patient list (by way of tactical communication yearly)

 

The issue of self insurance becomes a problem if a biggie hits. The stroke. the heart attack or Trauma ( eg road accident)

 

If you're in a coma who authorises getting for example 1 million for starters out of your bank account if you are single ??

 

What about people who can't get health insurance because they had cancer already? Their only option is staying in their passport country under government insurance or excluding 99% of illnesses + paying 300% higher premiums to the point it makes absolutely no sense in getting this 'private health insurance'.

 

Stroke, heart attack, are all pretty 'cheap' occurrence as shown with examples in this thread. Include a accident insurance, which I also advocate for, as they don't care about per-existing conditions and are pretty cheap as well.

 

To be self insured carries more responsibility. It's not a secret, you know? You could carry a credit card with a higher limit, you could be not single, you could have family. And so on. You get the point.

 

 

[QuantumQuandry]

2 minutes ago, Jimjim1 said:

So the poster should be more than 100%honest with the insurance company and talk to a manager to negotiate a favourable outcome.

 

I am sure many people don't remember every doctor visit they have had in the last ten years.

 

Negotiation might work.  Also might not.  That's all I am saying.  Imo, there is absolutely no guarantee that insurance will be there for you.  There are probabilities.  Maybe a high probability.  But people who think it's a guarantee are in denial, imo.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, AreYouGerman said:

communist EU countries

 

There are no communist EU countries. I think you are confusing communism with socialism.

[theblether]

There's no such thing as self-insurance. If you can't get coverage due to existing conditions don't move to Thailand on a permanent basis. Maximise travel insurance if available, and if its not available, forget it. Far too many horror stories. 

[Jimjim1]

20 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

Negotiation might work.  Also might not.  That's all I am saying.  Imo, there is absolutely no guarantee that insurance will be there for you.  There are probabilities.  Maybe a high probability.  But people who think it's a guarantee are in denial, imo.

Ok well you reckon you know better that anybody so suffice it to say that I personally spoke at great length with my insurers and got a letter from them confirming all risks at 100% I also extended my travel period, so I currently have an annual policy with a 90 day cover for ANY trip I make in the year, so I can go out for 90 days come back for one day and go straight back out again with the same cover and all I do is tell them.

I have not said that it was easy to do BUT if you know what you are talking about and want they the insurers have a clear idea of what is being requested of them and can say yes or no,and in my case it was a signed and confirmed yes.

[JeffersLos]

The worry alone makes me sick. 

[JeffersLos]

16 minutes ago, theblether said:

There's no such thing as self-insurance. If you can't get coverage due to existing conditions don't move to Thailand on a permanent basis. Maximise travel insurance if available, and if its not available, forget it. Far too many horror stories. 

Live in a house wrapped in cotton wool. Never venture outside. 

[mania]

4 hours ago, JontS said:

For those of you that self insure, what amount have you put aside?

Surprisingly few answers to your actual question.

 

I am not self insured but if I had to I think a minimum of 800-1 million baht & better 2 or 3 million baht same as most available policies

 

BUT...the problem starts at the point of using that self insurance. Is your situation such that it is no problem losing that to a medical cost? Is it easy enough for you to then refill that self insurance fund back to full?

 

TBH I think the only folks who are truly able to self insure never even consider asking how much to set aside (That is not me either 😉 )

 

[theblether]

50 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

Live in a house wrapped in cotton wool. Never venture outside. 

 

That's not what I said. I clearly said maximise travel insurance and if not available, don't bother. 

 

However, lie screaming in pain as your broken hip grinds every time you move on your festering bed. Rely upon strangers to wipe your ass as you cry tears of humiliation and agony. No ambulance will collect you as no hospital will take you, You can't fly home as you can't bear the agony of getting out of your bed never mind a twelve hour flight to your home medical service. 

 

How about the guy I know who flew to Thailand to celebrate beating cancer - fell off a motorbike, was rendered immobile for six weeks and, goddammit, his cancer came back. Uninsured, broke, we raised his travel money home with a gofundme. 

 

Or maybe you'd prefer a rapid onset brain tunour. Faculties destroyed, a gibbering wreck, no airline will certificate you to travel. An issue that a certain coterie of clowns, likely you are one, have never thought about. Denied boarding - sent to the medical centre at Suvarnabhumi and the doctors certify you unfit. 

 

How about falling off the back of a motorcycle taxi, unaware that the rider was drunk. Broken back, paralysis in one leg. Oh, how about the guys I know ( more than one ) wandering around with untreated SYPHILLiS - that most ancient of diseases, caught from unprotected sex with a random pin-cushion bar girl. 

 

Or would you prefer a run-in with Dengue fever? Maybe just a wee broken ankle, or a head smashed when you slipped in the shower. 

 

No, you're right. It's always the wise thing to do. Travel 10,000km with uninsurable conditions and wander around a fundamentally unsafe foreign environment full of weird viruses without medical cover. 

 

Do us all a favour and be quiet. 

Edited May 3 by theblether

[theblether]

30 minutes ago, mania said:

Surprisingly few answers to your actual question.

 

I am not self insured but if I had to I think a minimum of 800-1 million baht & better 2 or 3 million baht same as most available policies

 

BUT...the problem starts at the point of using that self insurance. Is your situation such that it is no problem losing that to a medical cost? Is it easy enough for you to then refill that self insurance fund back to full?

 

TBH I think the only folks who are truly able to self insure never even consider asking how much to set aside (That is not me either 😉 )

 

 

The question was answered immediately - 10 million baht. One of my Thai mates spent three months in a kidney-related coma, eventually dying. The private hospital billed his family almost 4 million baht. 

 

So that begs the question for the OP - can he guarantee that he will be in a fit condition to decide on treatment? He'll be far from the first farang found unconscious and transported to a private hospital. 

 

Have you thought about that, OP? 

[JeffersLos]

16 minutes ago, theblether said:

lie screaming in pain as your broken hip grinds every time you move on your festering bed. Rely upon strangers to wipe your ass as you cry tears of humiliation and agony. No ambulance will collect you as no hospital will take you, You can't fly home as you can't bear the agony of getting out of your bed never mind a twelve hour flight to your home medical service. 

 

How about the guy I know who flew to Thailand to celebrate beating cancer - fell off a motorbike, was rendered immobile for six weeks and, goddammit, his cancer came back. Uninsured, broke, we raised his travel money home with a gofundme. 

 

Or maybe you'd prefer a rapid onset brain tunour. Faculties destroyed, a gibbering wreck, no airline will certificate you to travel. An issue that a certain coterie of clowns, likely you are one, have never thought about. Denied boarding - sent to the medical centre at Suvarnabhumi and the doctors certify you unfit. 

 

How about falling off the back of a motorcycle taxi, unaware that the rider was drunk. Broken back, paralysis in one leg. Oh, how about the guys I know ( more than one ) wandering around with untreated SYPHILLiS - that most ancient of diseases, caught from unprotected sex with a random pin-cushion bar girl. 

 

Or would you prefer a run-in with Dengue fever? Maybe just a wee broken ankle, or a head smashed when you slipped in the shower. 

 

No, you're right. It's always the wise thing to do. Travel 10,000km with uninsurable conditions and wander around a fundamentally unsafe foreign environment full of weird viruses without medical cover. 

 

Live in a house wrapped in cotton wool. Never venture outside. 

[theblether]

1 minute ago, JeffersLos said:

 

Live in a house wrapped in cotton wool. Never venture outside. 

 

Bring the other half of your wit the next time you comment. 

[AreYouGerman]

2 hours ago, theblether said:

 

That's not what I said. I clearly said maximise travel insurance and if not available, don't bother. 

 

However, lie screaming in pain as your broken hip grinds every time you move on your festering bed. Rely upon strangers to wipe your ass as you cry tears of humiliation and agony. No ambulance will collect you as no hospital will take you, You can't fly home as you can't bear the agony of getting out of your bed never mind a twelve hour flight to your home medical service. 

 

How about the guy I know who flew to Thailand to celebrate beating cancer - fell off a motorbike, was rendered immobile for six weeks and, goddammit, his cancer came back. Uninsured, broke, we raised his travel money home with a gofundme. 

 

Or maybe you'd prefer a rapid onset brain tunour. Faculties destroyed, a gibbering wreck, no airline will certificate you to travel. An issue that a certain coterie of clowns, likely you are one, have never thought about. Denied boarding - sent to the medical centre at Suvarnabhumi and the doctors certify you unfit. 

 

How about falling off the back of a motorcycle taxi, unaware that the rider was drunk. Broken back, paralysis in one leg. Oh, how about the guys I know ( more than one ) wandering around with untreated SYPHILLiS - that most ancient of diseases, caught from unprotected sex with a random pin-cushion bar girl. 

 

Or would you prefer a run-in with Dengue fever? Maybe just a wee broken ankle, or a head smashed when you slipped in the shower. 

 

No, you're right. It's always the wise thing to do. Travel 10,000km with uninsurable conditions and wander around a fundamentally unsafe foreign environment full of weird viruses without medical cover. 

 

Do us all a favour and be quiet. 

 

A lot of typical boomer horror stories, like 'don't masturbate or you get blind'. 🤣

 

And for each horror story there are thousands of people without any issues. Don't you think? Well, think again about how insurances make money.

 

Also, do me a favor, please speak only for yourself.

[Presnock]

5 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

My statement was about not having a pre-existing condition at all, as was the OP's. Non-disclosure and being unaware of an existing condition are another matter entirely.

one would nnormally need to get a check up if one wanted to be insured to find out if there are any pre-existing conditions.  As for how much one needs to put aside, an example is the requirement to obtain an LTR visa, one needs to have health insurance guaranteeing 50K USD for hospitalization or a bank account holding 100K USD for the last 12 months.  The amount needed though could vary greatly upwards depending on health and disease issues.

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

Are those numbers for a top notch private hospital?  I imagine that if I have a heart attack or am incapacitated, I won't necessarily end up in BKK-Pattaya but may end up in the closest government hospital, which would be a lot cheaper.

Farang seem to be sent to Bangkok Pattaya first, maybe because ambulances get more money

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

I don't think it is unrelated.  You asked why they would deny without a pre-existing condition.

 

One reason is that he didn't have a pre-existing condition but he had some doctor visit he forgot about or he didn't think was relevant that they dug up.  So in this case, he doesn't have a pre-existing condition, as you stated, and may still get denied.

 

Two is that he has a pre-existing condition he isn't aware of.  While technically, you put in a clause about him not having one at all, the practical question is that he signs up, unaware of any pre-existing condition and then gets denied anyway.

i reckon a hospital visit for a cough and mandatory blood pressure check resulting in a high reading would probably give insurers a claim denied excuse for anything cardiovascular 

[scubascuba3]

Those with health insurance will have to self insure anyway due to the potential of claim denied plus of course those premiums likely to get unaffordable when you need cover the most.

 

How much is required? as much as possible on standby. Use good govt hospitals where possible, do lots of research, go abroad if necessary. Of course carry emergency contact details 

[Ben Zioner]

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

a) what health insurance REALLY works for those with 'conditions' 

Hence first post, to answer OP's assertion that their were ALL rubbish.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

i reckon a hospital visit for a cough and mandatory blood pressure check resulting in a high reading would probably give insurers a claim denied excuse for anything cardiovascular 

 

Possibly.

 

Most insurers will accept whatever the proposer is able to declare on the proposal form and will issue a policy based upon this information and won't undertake a thorough underwriting exercise at that time. That leaves the insurer with a potential get-out-of-jail-free card to use if and when a large claim is submitted. While post-claim underwriting is perhaps unethical, it is legally allowed - at least up to a point. The Thai Civil and Commercial Code does have a five-year limitation on an insurers's ability to do this, provided the insurer has been on risk for that time.

 

The onus is on the applicant to disclose all material facts that would influence an insurer's determination of coverage and price. Unfortunately, this can also include an obligation to disclose facts that the proposer may not be aware of or had forgotten, or which the proposer did not think was significant. Perhaps the only way to prevent an insurer from citing intentional non-disclosure would be to submit one's medical records for them to review when initially applying.

 

My suggestion is to submit actual medical records going back as far as possible in order to minimize the chance that an insurer could find something that would allow them to deny cover. Depending upon policy wording, this may also not be foolproof since there may be an undiagnosed condition that hasn't manifested itself yet which the insurer could cite to deny a claim. It would also require more time and effort than the current practice of relying on an applicant's memory and understanding of medical issues.

 

Individual commercial insurance is a poor solution for transferring the risk of significant medial expenses. Group cover through an employer is often a bit better, but the only cover that oldies can really rely upon is that which comes from the state, and even then there are gaps, deductibles and exclusions.

[Ben Zioner]

10 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

If a policyholder really does not have any pre-existing conditions according to the policy's definition of such, on what basis would an insurer exclude a claim due to a pre-existing condition?

 

I can see why this could happen. For instance, I got my Gallbladder taken out last week, there were a few largish stones and the pathology revealed chronic inflammation. I am pretty sure that any recent (less than 2-3 years ) cover would have refused to pay the 270k bill on the ground it was for a preexisting condition. IMHO one should get into private cover in one's early forties, and keep it, to avoid such situations. 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I can see why this could happen. For instance, I got my Gallbladder taken out last week, there were a few largish stones and the pathology revealed chronic inflammation. I am pretty sure that any recent (less than 2-3 years ) cover would have refused to pay the 270k bill on the ground it was for a preexisting condition. IMHO one should get into private cover in one's early forties, and keep it, to avoid such situations. 

Was that done at govt or private hosp ?  270k for surgery seems quite reasonable.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

8 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I can see why this could happen. For instance, I got my Gallbladder taken out last week, there were a few largish stones and the pathology revealed chronic inflammation. I am pretty sure that any recent (less than 2-3 years ) cover would have refused to pay the 270k bill on the ground it was for a preexisting condition. IMHO one should get into private cover in one's early forties, and keep it, to avoid such situations. 

 

Yes, it is entirely possible to have an undiagnosed and un-noticed condition that existed at policy inception. Depending upon policy wording, such a condition may be cited by an insurer as a pre-existing condition and a claim denied. Some policy wording may be more favorable, so it is important to understand how a pre-existing condition is defined and covered (or not) under the policy's terms.

[Ben Zioner]

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Was that done at govt or private hosp ?  270k for surgery seems quite reasonable.

Bumrungrad. But someone said he got it done, a few years ago, for a tenth of that price in a government hospital. Bear in mind that now they have, very officially, introduced multi-tier pricing based on the colour of your skin.

 

So 270k for a procedure that doesn't require any particular recovery. Was fully mobile, without pain, after an hour. Back home they do it as outpatient, I stayed one night.

Edited May 4 by Ben Zioner

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Bumrungrad. But someone said he got it done, a few years ago, for a tenth of that price in a government hospital. Bear in mind that now they have, very officially, introduced multi-tier pricing based on the colour of your skin.

 

So 270k for a procedure that doesn't require any particular recovery. Was fully mobile, without pain, after an hour. Back home they do it as outpatient, I stayed one night.

Thanks, more of a minor surgery than I thought.

 

THANKS

[Ben Zioner]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Thanks, more of a minor surgery than I thought.

If not done too late... There is a proportionality between the pain experienced before the operation and the difficulty of the procedure, in some cases (about one in twenty) they have to convert keyhole into open surgery.

 

This may raise another issue with insurances, some (especially self insurers ) may refuse to cover elective surgery. Mine was borderline elective, but I got approval without hesitation. 

[patman30]

might be worth first deciding how you will live to try and minimize any medical needs
then decide what you would be willing to live and what you would want treatment for
then price up the cost to fly elsewhere for certain treatments compared to here.
If you have pre-existing conditions that will void most insurance claims you may need quite a bit put aside to be treated here.
 

[brianthainess]

14 hours ago, JontS said:

Planning a move to Thailand, most likely next year and it looks like health insurance is a complete waste of money, as almost every claim will be denied due to pre-existing condition, even if there is none. 

 

For those of you that self insure, what amount have you put aside?

 

Thanks, Jon

Guess that depends on your age, but if 3 million in a good public hospital don't cure me, then it's all over IMO.

[JontS]

10 hours ago, theblether said:

 

The question was answered immediately - 10 million baht. One of my Thai mates spent three months in a kidney-related coma, eventually dying. The private hospital billed his family almost 4 million baht. 

 

So that begs the question for the OP - can he guarantee that he will be in a fit condition to decide on treatment? He'll be far from the first farang found unconscious and transported to a private hospital. 

 

Have you thought about that, OP? 

I have thought about that actually... it is a scary thought indeed

[JontS]

I have high cholesterol, but no heart issues or high BP, but I'm pretty sure insurance companies would use that as a pre-existing condition excuse. Other than that, I'm pretty healthy.

I do plan to get insurance for accidents at least.  

 

I have gotten a very comprehensive and useful answer from one of the members in a PM.

Edited May 4 by JontS

[JontS]

15 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

After over 300 claims I am still waiting to get denied.. Where did you get this utter nonsense from?

From here and other forums, happy to hear that not everyone has this experience. May I ask which company you use for insurance?