How to pay cashless at 7-11?

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, digbeth said:

Actually, some Thai vendors who previously accepted QR transfers are now rejecting it as they were hit with a visit from the revenue department and tax bill as certain threshold of incoming transfers trigger automatic reporting by the bank 

 

Two points here... Firstly... Tax is paid income from profits.. not turnover... 

 

Which 'Thai Vendors' were visited by the revenue department ?? -  are you sure you aren't projecting some 'whatifery' into the debate and peddling it as something that has occurred ???

 

 

3 hours ago, digbeth said:

Other reasons that shops that previously accepted QR payment but now reject it is some old mom and pop got scammed by buyers that show their screen that they'd transferred but didn't, some old folks don't know how to check if they had received the funds on their end, or it's the shop owner's account and employee can't know if the payment came through or not

 

QR transfer is as instant as a debit card, credit card, union pay, tap-n-go transaction...   there is an instant notification of the receipt of funds..   

Those not checking funds have been received are opening themselves up to scams as you pointed out - every time I use a QR code payment, the vendor doesn't need to see my confirmation as they receive their own.

 

But, how is this issue any different from receiving counterfeit cash ??

 

 

Additionally...  businesses can set up notification to more than one devise... i.e. thats how shops know you've paid - they don't have access to the account, but have access to the notification of payment at the point of sale.

 

That said, I'd agree that a 'mom & pop shop' may not have this set up correctly... and an assistant may not be able to confirm that the account has been paid as they may not receive the notification... But again, how is this different than someone paying with a 'fake 500 baht note' ??? - can the average Thai shop assistant identify a fake bill ?

 

 

---------

 

The 'Anti-cashless' argument always seems to carry the same flaws...  the point raised are based around paranoia and when presenting the argument the balance of a bigger picture is missed - as above, digbeth only mentioned the risk of getting scammed by a photo of a QR code, but ignored the risk of 'counterfeit cash'... 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

I want to point out, that I'm not anti-cash... 

 

There is a place for cash in society, I believe all shops should accept cash and all payment options. Its bad business to refuse any payment method.

 

But... what I do see in these debates is repeated flawed arguments against 'cashless' payments. 

 

------

 

The only valid argument I have ever read about cashless payment is the devaluation of currency when the cashless transaction comes at a cost...  (which it doesn't with Tap-n-go, QR Payment and TrueMoney, Apple Pay etc).

 

BUT...  the 3% credit card charge per transaction IS and issue..  thus, when a person pays 1000 baht for an item, the vendor receives 970 Baht..   That 1000 Baht is now worth 970 baht to the vendor, who pays another vendor by card, that original 1000 Baht is now worth 940 baht....  After 22 Credit Card transactions the value of that 1000 baht has been halved...  to 511 baht (if 3% is taken each time).

 

But, that doesn't happen with QR payments or TrueMoney Wallet - so its only an issue with credit cards. 

But, we don't see the same 'anti-credit-card' argument as we do the 'anti-cash-less' (anti QR payment argument) - which highlights to me the whole basis of this argument is not based around fact, but purely emotional and some are attempting to justify their 'emotional choices'... 

 

If people have their preference, just because thats what they prefer, thats fair enough...   But the arguments presented to justify that choice are often very flawed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[digbeth]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Two points here... Firstly... Tax is paid income from profits.. not turnover... 

 

Which 'Thai Vendors' were visited by the revenue department ?? -  are you sure you aren't projecting some 'whatifery' into the debate and peddling it as something that has occurred ???

 

There are revenue threshold of 2 million baht per year that if the shop reaches, has to join the VAT system, business tax on profit of course is separate 

the new reporting rule from bank is anyone that has over 3000 transactions get reported to revenue department,

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

12 hours ago, it is what it is said:

pay by cash, it's much quicker than faffing around with the QR code payment system

 

Pay by QR, it's much quicker than faffing around looking for the right money or waiting for the cashier to count your money, calculate change, then get the change, then count it twice, then hand it over and wait for you to put it away before they can serve me. Not to mention all the germs that money is coated in.

Such nonsense posted in these threads. If you like cash, use cash. No one wants to convert you to cashless - we don't care - just do what you prefer. But don't make up stupid stories to try to make cashless sound slow or inconvenient, just use cash if you prefer it and save us the boring posts.

 

Absolutely agree...    

 

... Though, I don't want to live in a world without cash...    my own reason for using cashless is nothing other than it being so very quick and convenient... 

 

I guess its how adaptable we are to the changing and developing world. 

 

That said, the debate has a place... and its interesting for me as it highlight the extent people will go to to justify their choices and seem to lose a sense of critical balance. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, digbeth said:

There are revenue threshold of 2 million baht per year that if the shop reaches, has to join the VAT system, business tax on profit of course is separate 

the new reporting rule from bank is anyone that has over 3000 transactions get reported to revenue department,

 

And whats wrong with that ??    

 

Are you suggesting everyone should be avoiding tax by using cash ?

 

 

This leads to a larger debate about tax.. but one of the reasons some countries are less developed can be tied directly to the amount of tax paid, or rather the amount of missing tax... 

 

If everyone paid tax - there may be a national ambulance service, a better fire service, better public hospitals, Police better paid and less corrupt etc...  No one likes paying tax, but it benefits society....   

 

 

Most businesses already have well over 3000 transaction... my BiL has a restaurant and probably exceeds 3000 transactions in a month... many of those are 'online orders'...  

 

 

Regarding the VAT issue... thats also beneficial as it avoids the cascading of tax in other areas, public funds have to come from somewhere... so people Pay VAT on their spending....  there is less demand for income tax etc...  

 

Thus a noodle shop selling a bowl of noodles for 50 baht...  may have to increase their price to 55 baht to account for the VAT - but theoretically, that offsets the demand for income tax, but greater spending power remains in the market

 

The economics its more complex than this of course - but again, it highlights the flaw in the argument you presented. 

 

 

 

 

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

 

Perhaps they don't understand you?

 

Regarding laundry, maybe it's time you "manned" up and bought a laundry machine.  The public machines are filthy!

 

It is not a language/understanding problem!  They do not use them!

Who said anything about using public machines! I said a laundry and meant a proper  family run laundry who do it all for you!

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats a more realistic possibility..

It is not in my case!

[koolkarl]

6 hours ago, george said:

Wow! Could you please elaborate on that?

Figure it out Einstein.  I don't spoon feed for free.

[MrJ2U]

42 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

It is not a language/understanding problem!  They do not use them!

Who said anything about using public machines! I said a laundry and meant a proper  family run laundry who do it all for you!

Well millions of Thais and falangs use there QR scanners

 to pay for items at 7/11 and forward thinking laundromats everyday.

 

Are you sure your in Thailand?

 

Your best bet is get a friend or 7/11  staffer to assist you.  

 

Perhaps True Wallet is attached to all banking apps?

 

Good luck!

[scottiejohn]

37 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Well millions of Thais and falangs use there QR scanners

 to pay for items at 7/11 and forward thinking laundromats everyday.

 

Are you sure your in Thailand?

 

Your best bet is get a friend or 7/11  staffer to assist you.  

 

Perhaps True Wallet is attached to all banking apps?

 

Good luck!

Crass and meaningless post!

[koolkarl]

On 5/15/2024 at 2:35 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Why ? what do the government get out of someone buying their 7-11 toastie with their TrueMoney wallet ????

Figure it  out.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

On 5/15/2024 at 10:35 AM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Why ? what do the government get out of someone buying their 7-11 toastie with their TrueMoney wallet ????

Figure it  out.

 

50 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

7 hours ago, george said:

Wow! Could you please elaborate on that?

Figure it out Einstein.  I don't spoon feed for free.

 

 

You can't answer the question either because the delusion is just that....  

 

The degree of paranoia is quite amusing, in a pathetic 'I don't want the government to know what type of underwear I'm wearing' kind of way...  

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

It is not a language/understanding problem!  They do not use them!

 

I have yet to find a business in Thailand that does not accept QR payment, though I'm sure there are a handful of 'mum & pop' type shops who haven't moved to that yet...       As other posters have mentioned, we see the QR codes all around these days, even wet markets etc.

 

Thats not to suggest cash is an issue, just that using the excuse that 'not 100% of places accept a QR Promptpay' as an excuse not to use QR Payments is rather flawed. 

 

-------

 

Slightly off topic - I'd rushed out to meet friends and watch the rugby... got to the bar (in Thailand)... had drinks etc.. 

It was only when the bill came that I realised I'd forgotten my wallet...    This was a few years back pre-covid, the bar/pub didn't have a QR Payment option at that time...  

... No issues, a staff member accepted QR Payment directly and was able to pay cash. 

(of course, I fully expect someone to pipe up how they never forget their wallet etc.. but thats just dumb and misses the point - stuff happens).

 

Plenty of other options... Borrow from friends and transfer to them.

Another option would be to go to an ATM and do a cardless withdrawal (with the phone).

 

 

My point here - having multiple options available to us is an advantage.... Limiting ourselves seems somewhat shortsighted. 

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

All 7-11's have that option to scan you're bank app from your phone.  They'll be happy to help you.

Can you talk us through what you did at 7 Eleven to scan using your bank app?

 

no one else has ever done it before, only using truemoneywallet works

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

6 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

All 7-11's have that option to scan you're bank app from your phone.  They'll be happy to help you.

Can you talk us through what you did at 7 Eleven to scan using your bank app?

 

no one else has ever done it before, only using truemoneywallet works

 

Indeed...   7-11 will not permit a transaction through 'PromptPay' which is the payment from Bank to Bank (via Mobile Banking App), either through them scanning a QR code on your phone, or through you scanning the QR code on the Point of Sale Machine.

 

 

MrJ2U must be getting mixed up between 7-11 and another convenience store such as Tops, Big-C Local, FamilyMart, Lawsons etc... 

 

 

 

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Can you talk us through what you did at 7 Eleven to scan using your bank app?

 

no one else has ever done it before, only using truemoneywallet works

My wife just corrected me. 

 

TrueWallet only at 7/11.

 

Wife said I have to sign up at a True Shop.  

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

MrJ2U must be getting mixed up

Yes.

 

Wife just admonished me.

 

Truewallet only.  

 

No prompt pay.

 

[MrJ2U]

8 hours ago, george said:

 

You did NOT used PromptPay QR at 7-Eleven today. They don't accept PromptPay QR.

Sorry George,

You were right.

 

Wife just set me straight on True Wallet for 7/11.

[george]

27 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Sorry George,

You were right.

 

Wife just set me straight on True Wallet for 7/11.

 

The wallet is not too bad, but iffy to setup. I did it with passport and scanned visa page only a year or two ago.

[richard_smith237]

35 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Yes.

 

Wife just admonished me.

 

Truewallet only.  

 

No prompt pay.

 

No worries...   the 'TrueWallet' thing caught me out when I first tried to use PromptPay in 7-11....    

 

Its all quite daft IMO...  but, its easier than using cash...    

[JimGant]

On 5/15/2024 at 12:18 PM, george said:

I am not carrying cash. Never ever been a problem.

Ah, burp, just finished a nice, expensive meal. Take your bill to the cashier, turn on your phone, and -- whoops, battery's dead. No cash? I guess you get a free meal -- or go to the kitchen to wash dishes.

[richard_smith237]

25 minutes ago, JimGant said:

On 5/15/2024 at 12:18 PM, george said:

I am not carrying cash. Never ever been a problem.

Ah, burp, just finished a nice, expensive meal. Take your bill to the cashier, turn on your phone, and -- whoops, battery's dead. No cash? I guess you get a free meal -- or go to the kitchen to wash dishes.

 

Or just deal with the issue as any other human with a brain would....  pay with a card....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

So is there anyone who can simply say, Yes i used google wallet or apple wallet with a non-thai visa or mastercard in 7/11 and it works? I am pretty sure they simply don't even know that it is possible but it should be possible as the 7/11 machine shows wireless payments with mastercard or visa too, just the fact there is a minimum.

They are always busy where i live so i never insisted to try, just wonder if anyone already did. In Vietnam it works fine for me and that is super useful there.

[ChaiyaTH]

31 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Ah, burp, just finished a nice, expensive meal. Take your bill to the cashier, turn on your phone, and -- whoops, battery's dead. No cash? I guess you get a free meal -- or go to the kitchen to wash dishes.

Yeah is will be impossible to find a charger in the restaurant, to have a live phone again in a minute time + still pay too. Aside from still having a wallet with real cards (the same as that you can use inside google or apple wallet wireless).

[richard_smith237]

Just now, ChaiyaTH said:

So is there anyone who can simply say, Yes i used google wallet or apple wallet with a non-thai visa or mastercard in 7/11 and it works? I am pretty sure they simply don't even know that it is possible but it should be possible as the 7/11 machine shows wireless payments with mastercard or visa too, just the fact there is a minimum.

They are always busy where i live so i never insisted to try, just wonder if anyone already did. In Vietnam it works fine for me and that is super useful there.

 

IF you can 'tap and go' with a regular Credit Card or Debit Card from overseas - then you can 'Tap and Go' with Apple Pay or Google Wallet (linked to a Credit Card or Debit Card from overseas).

 

The issue of course is that the request to use Apple Pay or Google Pay with your phone may draw the default "cannot" response as the staff may not be familiar with such payment.

 

I have Apple Pay on my phone but have never tried to use it in Thailand because its only linked to overseas cards and I have plenty of local payment options - but I do not see any reason it would not work. 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

So is there anyone who can simply say, Yes i used google wallet or apple wallet with a non-thai visa or mastercard in 7/11 and it works? I am pretty sure they simply don't even know that it is possible but it should be possible as the 7/11 machine shows wireless payments with mastercard or visa too, just the fact there is a minimum.

They are always busy where i live so i never insisted to try, just wonder if anyone already did. In Vietnam it works fine for me and that is super useful there.

Try it, 200 baht minimum, it's contactless so just tapping should work

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

35 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Ah, burp, just finished a nice, expensive meal. Take your bill to the cashier, turn on your phone, and -- whoops, battery's dead. No cash? I guess you get a free meal -- or go to the kitchen to wash dishes.

Yeah is will be impossible to find a charger in the restaurant, to have a live phone again in a minute time + still pay too. Aside from still having a wallet with real cards (the same as that you can use inside google or apple wallet wireless).

 

This was just someone trying to shoe-horn in an argument without thinking critically - most of the anti-digital payment arguments take this form and are devoid of critical logic in considering alternative options to their myopic 'whatiffery'... 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

36 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Ah, burp, just finished a nice, expensive meal. Take your bill to the cashier, turn on your phone, and -- whoops, battery's dead. No cash? I guess you get a free meal -- or go to the kitchen to wash dishes.

I've never had a phone battery go dead when out, maybe ensure it has enough charge before you go out

[JimGant]

35 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This was just someone trying to shoe-horn in an argument without thinking critically - most of the anti-digital payment arguments take this form and are devoid of critical logic in considering alternative options to their myopic 'whatiffery'... 

Stupid statement. Phones DO die, for battery, or other lesser reasons. Thus, for someone to say "they never carry cash" -- would seem to seem to say they haven't considered alternative -- and possibly necessary -- options.

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Stupid statement. Phones DO die, for battery, or other lesser reasons. Thus, for someone to say "they never carry cash" -- would seem to seem to say they haven't considered alternative -- and possibly necessary -- options.

 

Agreed... Phones die.. BUT, suggesting thats as a reason not to use digital payment just incase their phone dies would be the daft statement....   IF your phone dies, you'd have to go and do the dishes...  (as below) - as pointed out, anyone with a brain carries more than one alternative. 

 

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Ah, burp, just finished a nice, expensive meal. Take your bill to the cashier, turn on your phone, and -- whoops, battery's dead. No cash? I guess you get a free meal -- or go to the kitchen to wash dishes.

 

 

 

These debates always take on a bipolar & binary argument when in reality the best solution is to have more than one payment option available and maintain a degree of flexibility.

 

- Credit Card

- Debit Card

- PromptPay (QR Code)

- Apple Pay / Google Wallet

- True Wallet

- Cash

 

Even with all the above at hand - I'm using a Credit Card most of the time (because we get points)... 

 

I used cash last week in a taxi...    cash accounts for about 10% (probably less) of my transactions in Thailand - I hardly have need for it but don't want it done away with - this isn't an 'either or argument' for and against cash / digital payment, rather the argument stands that Digital Payment is also a very good convenient and simple option, but there are some who use broken logic to argue that.