Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

BarraMarra · July 14

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Well he expected a short war alike Georgia, he was wrong. Now he plays to long run, and who is hurting?

We had people here and world news predicting collaps of Russia in 6 months, then 8 months, then after 12 months, now? Russian building connections world wide, while the west controlling amount of weapons delivered and what tech Ukrainians are allowed to use, and which targets is legitime.

Ukrainians is being tired down on the frontline, terrorized for years, and how long do you think Zelensky will manage to keep the moral up? How many more years with trench war will it be?

It is something about treating the devil, and make the devil greater. We will never know what would had been the best solution, now we have to deal with status Q, and that is to make sure Putin do not win.

Well it took 6 years to defeat Germany Hummin.

Hummin · July 14

5 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Well it took 6 years to defeat Germany Hummin.

Exactly

The question is, Is Putin on a level of Hitler? Looking aside of what the Ukraine people wants, would Putin been more dangerous with Ukraine as allied same as Georgia, or is ha a bigger threath now after soon 32 months of war and huge losses on both sides, and he managed to allie with China and India and many other states and countries.

It is a complicated dilema

BarraMarra · July 14

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Exactly

The question is, Is Putin on a level of Hitler? Looking aside of what the Ukraine people wants, would Putin been more dangerous with Ukraine as allied same as Georgia, or is ha a bigger threath now after soon 32 months of war and huge losses on both sides, and he managed to allie with China and India and many other states and countries.

It is a complicated dilema

Well Putin is wanted in the Hague as a war criminal he only goes to Countries he feels safe from being snatched. Like Eichmann was snatched in Argentina by Israeli personnel and stood trial in Israel. Putin does not want to end up like him.

RayC · July 14

On 7/12/2024 at 4:13 AM, Gweiloman said:

Simple. Ukraine commits to remaining neutral, ie not join NATO. Negotiations starts from there. Putin has said he will immediately, within one minute, order a halt.

But that isn't Putin's only condition.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/c033eyyr20do.amp

Puts a different complexion on things, doesn't it?

Gweiloman · July 14

4 hours ago, Mavideol said:

and the good news for the weekend 555

Russia loses ‘astronomical’ 70,000 troops in 60 days

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-loses-astronomical-70-000-060000133.html

4 hours ago, Tug said:

That’s grotesque the Russians really need to take care of Putin now!

Wow. That would mean that Ukraine has lost about 360,000 troops in the same period. No wonder the article mentions a crippling shortage of manpower for Ukraine.

tgw · July 14

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

Wow. That would mean that Ukraine has lost about 360,000 troops in the same period. No wonder the article mentions a crippling shortage of manpower for Ukraine.

you got the ratio inverted it seems.

Gweiloman · July 14

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

But that isn't Putin's only condition.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/c033eyyr20do.amp

Puts a different complexion on things, doesn't it?

Not really. The other condition mentioned was that Ukraine withdraws its troops from the 4 oblasts. That’s why I wrote “negotiations start from there” with regards to the commitment of not joining NATO. ~~Ukraine~~ The US could always counter with saying the troops will stay where they are for now. You do know how negotiations work, right?

I can’t believe how foolish Ukraine is to think that they will ever be able to join nato. Even Radek “thank you USA (for sabotaging the pipeline)” Sikorsky has said that Ukraine will only ever join after it wins the conflict. If Ukraine thinks that’s even remotely possible, many bridges will be sold to them. Admittedly, they do need many…

Gweiloman · July 14

5 minutes ago, tgw said:

you got the ratio inverted it seems.

Nope. 1 Russian casualty for every 5 Ukrainian casualties. If you think it’s the other way, I have many bridges to sell you.

Hummin · July 14

1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

Well Putin is wanted in the Hague as a war criminal he only goes to Countries he feels safe from being snatched. Like Eichmann was snatched in Argentina by Israeli personnel and stood trial in Israel. Putin does not want to end up like him.

I guess Putin hope for and want to create a new world order, as he many times have said, "Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that America's global dominance is coming to an end"

I think it is time to listening what Putin says, and not just treat him as an unstable crazy dictator. What he have said for years, starts to roll now and be clear to most,

https://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-us-dominance-ending-mistakes-typical-empire/story?id=58611354

RayC · July 14

On 7/13/2024 at 7:24 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Shall I also condemn every other warmonger on the planet to satisfy your baiting? There are plenty of them to talk about if that is what you want, but it's like Ukraine is the only war going on to read some posts.

I don't need to mention Putin as he is a dictator doing what dictators do. What annoys me though are those that think everyone on "our side" is a good person, which is a nonsense.

The ones that want "us" to go in have obviously no idea of what a war is like, but I notice it's always other people that have to do the "going in" and the dying, while they post from thousands of miles away. It's not even as though they couldn't join in if they really wanted to- they will find something for even the oldest warmonger to do.

(I doubt that this will receive a reply as I'm on @Thaibeachlover's ignore list for having the audacity to point out his falsehoods in a previous exchange. Anyway ....)

More evasion on your part.

Sadly there are many conflicts going on in the world. However, this thread is about the war in Ukraine and you were posed a direct question about It, not about any other.

So, once again, will you condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

It's a simple 'Yes' or 'No' answer even if - playing Devil's Advocate - it's accepted that Russia might have grounds for feeling aggrieved at its' treatment by the West in the past.

transam · July 14

38 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Wow. That would mean that Ukraine has lost about 360,000 troops in the same period. No wonder the article mentions a crippling shortage of manpower for Ukraine.

More guesswork from the Red bloke.............😂

transam · July 14

31 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Nope. 1 Russian casualty for every 5 Ukrainian casualties. If you think it’s the other way, I have many bridges to sell you.

Do the Reds pay you...............? :clap2:

RayC · July 14

54 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Not really. The other condition mentioned was that Ukraine withdraws its troops from the 4 oblasts. That’s why I wrote “negotiations start from there” with regards to the commitment of not joining NATO. ~~Ukraine~~ The US could always counter with saying the troops will stay where they are for now. You do know how negotiations work, right?

I can’t believe how foolish Ukraine is to think that they will ever be able to join nato. Even Radek “thank you USA (for sabotaging the pipeline)” Sikorsky has said that Ukraine will only ever join after it wins the conflict. If Ukraine thinks that’s even remotely possible, many bridges will be sold to them. Admittedly, they do need many…

Yes really.

Ukraine is not willing to compromise on it's stated position i.e. that for formal talks to commence, Russia would have to leave the occupied areas and there would be no pre-conditions about Ukraine's future membership of NATO. Russia could accept Ukraine's terms and negotiations about the future could then commence. I assume that you realise this?

Before 2014, the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO was slim. Neither the Ukraine government nor the public had much appetite for it and many NATO members - notably Germany - were against it. Putin's overreaction to Yanukovych's removal - which was about EU, not NATO, membership - by invading Crimea and the Dombass changed things. Even so, despite this obvious Russian aggression, there was little immediate prospect of Ukraine becoming a NATO member. The full-scale invasion in 2022 changed the narrative completely.

The current situation is of Putin's making.

(Postscript: No idea why some text appears in larger font)

Edited July 14 by RayC
Explanation

tgw · July 14

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Nope. 1 Russian casualty for every 5 Ukrainian casualties. If you think it’s the other way, I have many bridges to sell you.

post your source

GroveHillWanderer · July 14

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Nope. 1 Russian casualty for every 5 Ukrainian casualties.

Based on what data source? Please provide a link for that factual claim.

thaibeachlovers · July 14

15 hours ago, Hummin said:

now we have to deal with status Q, and that is to make sure Putin do not win.

Please explain how we can make sure Putin does not win. I'll take an opinion.

In the end wars are won by men in the mud, not by planes or missiles, and while Ukraine has plenty of mud, they are a bit short of men.

thaibeachlovers · July 14

13 hours ago, Hummin said:

I guess Putin hope for and want to create a new world order, as he many times have said, "Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that America's global dominance is coming to an end"

I think it is time to listening what Putin says, and not just treat him as an unstable crazy dictator. What he have said for years, starts to roll now and be clear to most,

https://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-us-dominance-ending-mistakes-typical-empire/story?id=58611354

One doesn't have to be Putin to understand that America is likely going to lose it's domination.

Ironically the build up of China has happened with American money and tech, IMO.

Nixon should never have accepted China as an equal, and now it's going come back to bite us.

thaibeachlovers · July 14

13 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I can’t believe how foolish Ukraine is to think that they will ever be able to join nato. Even Radek “thank you USA (for sabotaging the pipeline)” Sikorsky has said that Ukraine will only ever join after it wins the conflict.

I certainly hope that Ukraine will not be allowed to join while the war continues. That would automatically cue NATO direct involvement, and a one way slide into MAD, IMO.

Unfortunately, there are too many warmongering idiots in charge to be sure it won't happen.

thaibeachlovers · July 14

15 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

Well it took 6 years to defeat Germany Hummin.

Do you think the west will still be handing over billions of $ worth of weapons and munitions for the next 4 years? LOL.

Anyway, Germany was defeated in large part by Russia, and this war is different as Russia is not ( hopefully ) going to be directly attacked by the allies, which means it can continue the war.

Bit of a dilemma for the west there- if they don't attack Russia, Ukraine is unlikely to send the bear home, and if they do it's MAD.

Gweiloman · July 15

15 hours ago, RayC said:

Yes really.

Ukraine is not willing to compromise on it's stated position i.e. that for formal talks to commence, Russia would have to leave the occupied areas and there would be no pre-conditions about Ukraine's future membership of NATO. Russia could accept Ukraine's terms and negotiations about the future could then commence. I assume that you realise this?

Of course your proposal is an alternative but the chances of Russia accepting this is a big fat zero. Ukraine is not exactly having the upper hand in this conflict currently. The winning side is the side that usually dictates the terms. I assume that you realise this?

15 hours ago, RayC said:

Before 2014, the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO was slim. Neither the Ukraine government nor the public had much appetite for it and many NATO members - notably Germany - were against it. Putin's overreaction to Yanukovych's removal - which was about EU, not NATO, membership - by invading Crimea and the Dombass changed things. Even so, despite this obvious Russian aggression, there was little immediate prospect of Ukraine becoming a NATO member. The full-scale invasion in 2022 changed the narrative completely.

The current situation is of Putin's making.

(Postscript: No idea why some text appears in larger font)

An alternate narrative, hmmm. This is the first time I have come across this view. From listening to learned scholars like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer and lots of others, my understanding is that Putin had no issue with Ukraine being part of the EU but Nato was a red line. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your point of view.

The current situation is of the west’s and Zelensky’s own making, though for different reasons.

Gweiloman · July 15

16 hours ago, transam said:

More guesswork from the Red bloke.............😂

16 hours ago, transam said:

Do the Reds pay you...............?

I see you’re back with more of your content free posts.

You never did answer my question as to why you are so against Marxism, communism. I guess it’s because such a discourse requires a minimum level of intelligence and education beyond owning a single colour crayon set.

Gweiloman · July 15

15 hours ago, tgw said:

post your source

15 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Based on what data source? Please provide a link for that factual claim.

Heard in directly from Putin’s mouth in either an interview he gave or a press conference he held. Can’t remember the source. Even if I could find it, it probably won’t be an approved source on AN as it conflicts with the western narrative. I’m sure you have heard this Putin’s claim before.

transam · July 15

38 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I see you’re back with more of your content free posts.

You never did answer my question as to why you are so against Marxism, communism. I guess it’s because such a discourse requires a minimum level of intelligence and education beyond owning a single colour crayon set.

You should try reading about communist history and the executions of its citizens for near nothing, sending unarmed men in waves to face gun fire, life means nothing to who ever is in the commy hot seat.

And you have the front to talk about other's intelligence, you fool...... :omfg:

Why don't you get out there and help out your leader, instead of waffling your Red garbage here......🤔

tgw · July 15

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Heard in directly from Putin’s mouth in either an interview he gave or a press conference he held. Can’t remember the source. Even if I could find it, it probably won’t be an approved source on AN as it conflicts with the western narrative. I’m sure you have heard this Putin’s claim before.

aaah. the guaranteed accurate information from the unknown source that wouldn't be allowed anyway. OK, got you.

despite hundreds of honest independent journalists in the West that would report it regardless if it were true.

Bkk Brian · July 15

Way past time for all NATO countries to allow their donated military aid to be used as the NATO head says!

Ukraine has right to strike military targets within Russian territory, Stoltenberg says

"My position is that there is no doubt that Ukraine has the right to attack legitimate military targets on the territory of the aggressor country, Russia," Stoltenberg said.

"This is clearly defined by international law. Since this is a war that Russia started against Ukraine, Ukraine has the right to self-defense, and this includes strikes on the territory of the aggressor. This is absolutely clear to me."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-strike-military-targets-within-181027751.html

BarraMarra · July 15

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please explain how we can make sure Putin does not win. I'll take an opinion.

In the end wars are won by men in the mud, not by planes or missiles, and while Ukraine has plenty of mud, they are a bit short of men.

I think the Mayor of Hiroshima might have a different answer to that TBL.

RayC · July 15

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Of course your proposal is an alternative but the chances of Russia accepting this is a big fat zero. Ukraine is not exactly having the upper hand in this conflict currently. The winning side is the side that usually dictates the terms. I assume that you realise this?

I agree that Russia will not accept Ukraine's terms and also that it currently has the upper hand. However, Ukraine shows no sign of wishing to negotiate under Russian terms and the situation - both politically and militarily - is fluid therefore, unfortunately, the war continues. I assume that you have noticed this?

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

An alternate narrative, hmmm. This is the first time I have come across this view. From listening to learned scholars like Jeffrey Sachs and John Mearsheimer and lots of others, my understanding is that Putin had no issue with Ukraine being part of the EU but Nato was a red line. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your point of view.

I am surprised that you have not heard of this narrative previously. It is common knowledge and I certainly can't claim credit for it.

Many other learned scholars disagreed with Messrs Mearsheimer and Sachs' interpretation of events: An open letter from these scholars offers a compelling case for rejecting the Mearsheimer/ Sachs hypothesis:

https://web.archive.org/web/20230806172854/https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/20/open-letter-to-jeffrey-sachs-on-the-russia-ukraine-war/

However you are, of course, free to overlook these objections and maintain your support for Mearsheimer/ Sachs premise.

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

The current situation is of the west’s and Zelensky’s own making, though for different reasons.

There is little doubt that Russia is responsible for the current war. The question is whether the timing of the events in 2014 were pre-planned or whether Putin panicked as a result of the overthrow of his ally, Yanukovych?

I favour the latter explanation but am open to persuasion.

Danderman123 · July 15

Reports indicate that the Russian pocket in Vovchansk is still holding out. There maybe a few dozen soldiers left in the pocket, but they are slowing the Ukrainian advance in the rest of the city.

thaibeachlovers · July 15

16 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

I think the Mayor of Hiroshima might have a different answer to that TBL.

Seriously, was I supposed to add "except when atomic bombs are used"? I certainly hope it never gets to the stage of that in Ukraine or it's over for the human race and many more species. IMO America would not have used the two if there had been a credible chance that Japan could have obliterated Washington.

In any event, Japan was defeated already, having lost control of the air, fire storms in cities etc, but the Emperor needed something like the bomb to be able to counter the military, who IMO would have let every Japanese die rather than surrender.

Gweiloman · July 16

22 hours ago, transam said:

You should try reading about communist history and the executions of its citizens for near nothing, sending unarmed men in waves to face gun fire, life means nothing to who ever is in the commy hot seat.

And you have the front to talk about other's intelligence, you fool......

Why don't you get out there and help out your leader, instead of waffling your Red garbage here......🤔

You are confusing economics and forms of governance with political and militaristic ambitions of megalomaniacal leaders and despots. That explains why most of your posts are rather free of content.

Best go back to your colouring book. I hear King Charles rather likes your favourite colour too.

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