National Service in the UK. Good idea or never get off the ground

[soalbundy]

21 hours ago, Denim said:

Personally , I can't see it happening . Non starter with too many problems bound to arise.

Like many may be addicted to drugs and can barely read or write.

[natway09]

I think military service would do a lot for discipline & 2 years service at 18 years old (unless employed full time)

could actually do a lot for their morale & wellbeing.

I did weekend warriors for nearly 3 years (2 weekends a month) & learned a lot.

Certainly the dole should be stopped if they do not comply

[Drumbuie]

Defence Chiefs of Staff have already rubbished this idea and said it's simply an electoral ploy. Without extra funding for defence (the Tories have cut the Defence Budget in real terms while wasting money on eg Rwanda and #HS2) the last thing the Forces need is an influx of disgruntled, untrained 18 year olds, and you can quite see their point.

Conscripts need uniforms, housing, equipment. There isn't any. They don't even have enough for troops on active duty. No wonder the Chiefs of Staff are fuming. 

14 years ago the UK was still anm respected actor on the international stage. Now it's a pitiable wreck of a country run by clowns who've feathered their own and their chums' nests at the expense of everyone else, where the seas and rivers are full of sewage ( and so is the Parliament). 

#NeverVoteTory

[Denim]

13 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Certainly the dole should be stopped if they do not comply

 

Agreed. I can just visualize many rattles being thrown out of prams over that one. 

[Thingamabob]

A good idea, but it will never happen.

[Thingamabob]

22 minutes ago, Drumbuie said:

Defence Chiefs of Staff have already rubbished this idea and said it's simply an electoral ploy. Without extra funding for defence (the Tories have cut the Defence Budget in real terms while wasting money on eg Rwanda and #HS2) the last thing the Forces need is an influx of disgruntled, untrained 18 year olds, and you can quite see their point.

Conscripts need uniforms, housing, equipment. There isn't any. They don't even have enough for troops on active duty. No wonder the Chiefs of Staff are fuming. 

14 years ago the UK was still anm respected actor on the international stage. Now it's a pitiable wreck of a country run by clowns who've feathered their own and their chums' nests at the expense of everyone else, where the seas and rivers are full of sewage ( and so is the Parliament). 

#NeverVoteTory

Sadly, I fear you are right.

[Geoff N]

It won't happen, but if it does, I can't think of anyone better than Sunak to fuc* it up. He's toast anyway, so no worries. 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Geoff N said:

It won't happen, but if it does, I can't think of anyone better than Sunak to fuc* it up. He's toast anyway, so no worries. 

I don't think he will be involved in its running.........🤔

[daveAustin]

It is a good idea for any country if only to get kids off their phones and out of their wrapped up little lives for a bit. Some of the uni kids in the UK are so out of touch with reality that a couple years basic training and discipline would give them real perspective. 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

It is a good idea for any country if only to get kids off their phones and out of their wrapped up little lives for a bit. Some of the uni kids in the UK are so out of touch with reality that a couple years basic training and discipline would give them real perspective. 

 

Let me guess.. You never went to Uni hence your isolation of 'Uni Kids'... 

 

The reality is, there are many 'people' young and old out of touch with reality - not just the young and not just those going through tertiary education. 

Another reality also is that those of us who live overseas are often out of touch with the reality back home.

 

What would you want 'them' [Uni Kids] to get a real perspective of? compared to a kid who leaves school at 16 and works in a factory?... 

 

 

 

The best response to this subject is from 'theblether' (quote below) - whereby National Service is less about military and more about 'serving the nation, learning life skills etc...      

 

 

 

21 hours ago, theblether said:

I've been in favour of this for years with some provisos. 

 

1. Male and female service. If its men only, I'm against it. 

2. 90 day mandatory military training followed by voluntary streaming into either civic or military service. 

3. A complete ban on front line service. No one on national service should be sent to a war zone under any circumstances. 

 

The civic service possibilities are endless. From assisting in British and foreign hospitals, to streaming trainee teachers into overseas posts. 

 

The 90 day military training is essential to codify discipline. And I accept many will find that punishing. However, once that period is over it could be/should be an enjoyable life enhancing experience. 

 

[jesimps]

If there's a WW3, someone has to be trained to do the fighting. If you have mainly civilians once the conflict starts, you may as well hand the country over to Mad Vlad on a plate. You're always playing catch-up if you try to train a military after the war has started. I can't see many gen Z or woke types being keen on the idea though, nor the hoards heading across the Channel in small boats.

[Patanawet]

Ridiculous idea!  Nearly three quarters of a million new 18 year olds each year. Where will they put them?
Only boys or girls as well.
Just an election  gimmick.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Patanawet said:

Ridiculous idea!  Nearly three quarters of a million new 18 year olds each year. Where will they put them?
Only boys or girls as well.
Just an election  gimmick.

I would think they have thought about that, after all, the illegals that are coming in aren't sleeping on the street......🤭

[Keeps]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Like many may be addicted to drugs and can barely read or write.

Yet probably still more intelligent and useful than yourself.......

[shackleton]

The Country has gone to Woke to try and introduce National Service 

Labour and the greens once in power have no back bone to even think about introducing national service 

 

Once in power they will not take long  in  tanking  the economy 

[Baht Simpson]

On 5/26/2024 at 8:01 PM, BangkokReady said:

Sounds like a re-hash of Cameron's "National Citizen Service".  Or, "National Service without the service".

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-launches-national-citizen-service-pilots--2

 

They probably think that by mentioning "National Service" it will get the old people on board, conjuring images of unruly teens being given what for!

Yes, and Willie Whitelaw's "Short, Sharp, Shock" that cost a fortune.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Keeps said:

Yet probably still more intelligent and useful than yourself.......

Possible indeed, according to David Bohm's 'implicate order' the implicate is behind a veil waiting to unfold and become the explicite, who knows what possibilities lie waiting to unfold in the backstreets of Grimsby and the like, precipitated by a letter stating it is OHMS. The beauty of a professional army is that the soldiers should have an acceptable standard of education, an average intelligence with the potential for improvement and, here is the crux, be motivated and although a professional army is expensive I don't think that cutting costs by ripping a few pot smoking youths from the benefits queue is going to serve the country's needs even though some of the 'great unwashed' would no doubt turn their lives around due to the experience of discipline and a new found self respect.

[The Old Bull]

I missed the national service by one year. From what from what they told me it was not a positive experience just a combination of drudgery and drunkenness.

[billd766]

20 hours ago, Drumbuie said:

Defence Chiefs of Staff have already rubbished this idea and said it's simply an electoral ploy. Without extra funding for defence (the Tories have cut the Defence Budget in real terms while wasting money on eg Rwanda and #HS2) the last thing the Forces need is an influx of disgruntled, untrained 18 year olds, and you can quite see their point.

Conscripts need uniforms, housing, equipment. There isn't any. They don't even have enough for troops on active duty. No wonder the Chiefs of Staff are fuming. 

14 years ago the UK was still anm respected actor on the international stage. Now it's a pitiable wreck of a country run by clowns who've feathered their own and their chums' nests at the expense of everyone else, where the seas and rivers are full of sewage ( and so is the Parliament). 

#NeverVoteTory

Many military bases in the UK in the UK have been closed and the cost to re-open and rehabilitate them to modern living conditions will be very high.

 

In addition to that all recruits will need uniforms and equipment, the Army will require extra weapons and vehicles and ammunition, the Royal Navy will need extra ships, weapons and ammunition and the RAF will need the same.

 

Uniforms and vehicles can be bought in in a short period, ships will take years to build as will aircraft. Not to mention extra training staff and facilities to train both men and women.

 

Meanwhile the UK government (Tory for the last few years) keep adding tasks to the ever decreasing UK military.

 

As an example, the Royal Navy has just 2 aircraft carrier, one in the Red Sea/Arab Gulf area and the other has to cover the rest of the world. What will happen when one of the 2 becomes u-available for any reason? An aircraft carrier is not simply an isolated ship, it also requires frigates, destroyers, perhaps a submarine or 2 and they in turn require to be re-supplied with food, fuel and ammunition which requires several Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships as well, all of which use fuel as well.

 

The UK has AFAIK has no bases east of Suez or even in the Arab Gulf and there are only a couple of docks in the UK big enough to berth a carrier.

 

Unless the UK is actually in a war situation, it is unreasonable to expect the crew to spend months or even years at sea.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:49 AM, gargamon said:

Got beat up a lot, huh? I can understand that. From most of your posts here, I would have beat you up too.

No doubt you are a martial arts expert then.

 

If you don't like my posts feel free to put me on ignore- just do it. IMO only a dufus keeps reading posts that make him feel angry enough to go terminator.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Many military bases in the UK in the UK have been closed and the cost to re-open and rehabilitate them to modern living conditions will be very high.

 

In addition to that all recruits will need uniforms and equipment, the Army will require extra weapons and vehicles and ammunition, the Royal Navy will need extra ships, weapons and ammunition and the RAF will need the same.

 

Uniforms and vehicles can be bought in in a short period, ships will take years to build as will aircraft. Not to mention extra training staff and facilities to train both men and women.

 

Meanwhile the UK government (Tory for the last few years) keep adding tasks to the ever decreasing UK military.

 

As an example, the Royal Navy has just 2 aircraft carrier, one in the Red Sea/Arab Gulf area and the other has to cover the rest of the world. What will happen when one of the 2 becomes u-available for any reason? An aircraft carrier is not simply an isolated ship, it also requires frigates, destroyers, perhaps a submarine or 2 and they in turn require to be re-supplied with food, fuel and ammunition which requires several Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships as well, all of which use fuel as well.

 

The UK has AFAIK has no bases east of Suez or even in the Arab Gulf and there are only a couple of docks in the UK big enough to berth a carrier.

 

Unless the UK is actually in a war situation, it is unreasonable to expect the crew to spend months or even years at sea.

IMO you are overthinking it somewhat. I doubt the PM is thinking of much more than a lot of drill and adventure training. I also think he expects most to opt out of the military option. No need for any extra ships or planes etc.

However, I'm with the generals- no modern military wants a load of fat mummy's boys complaining that they can't eat maccers and play games on their computers to try and make something of- silk purses and sow's ears comes to mind.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, jesimps said:

If there's a WW3, someone has to be trained to do the fighting. If you have mainly civilians once the conflict starts, you may as well hand the country over to Mad Vlad on a plate. You're always playing catch-up if you try to train a military after the war has started. I can't see many gen Z or woke types being keen on the idea though, nor the hoards heading across the Channel in small boats.

Errr, WW3 probably isn't going to be fought with a load of cannon fodder crawling around in the mud.

Even now the boffins are working on "autonomous fighting machines". They won't look like Mr Swartzenegger though.

[billd766]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you are overthinking it somewhat. I doubt the PM is thinking of much more than a lot of drill and adventure training. I also think he expects most to opt out of the military option. No need for any extra ships or planes etc.

However, I'm with the generals- no modern military wants a load of fat mummy's boys complaining that they can't eat maccers and play games on their computers to try and make something of- silk purses and sow's ears comes to mind.

Perhaps I am, but the numbers come out to a large number of people that Sunak seems to think will be absorbed into either the military or a civilian role. All of which will need to be paid and equipped for the task that they choose.

 

If only 100,000 choose the military they will need uniforms, weapons, barracks to live in, a mess to eat in, and staff to train them while they learn a trade.

 

Where will the money come from to pay for all this?

[Thailand]

I appears the Tories are trying to find ways to give the biggest ever majority to the Labour party!

[Will B Good]

It will never get off the ground....the swivelled eyed loons won't be in power......we're getting grownups......

 

What if you are married?

What if you have kids?

Are these 'conscripts' to be compensated for a year of lost earnings?

How will the whole thing ever be enforced?

How will the the whole thing be funded.....oh! The tax payer of course.

 

The only way it could work is if it is totally voluntary with significant incentives......the Tories are dead in the water....oh wait....the big offer...... 75p a day for pensioners....... that'll get them back into power...555 

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Perhaps I am, but the numbers come out to a large number of people that Sunak seems to think will be absorbed into either the military or a civilian role. All of which will need to be paid and equipped for the task that they choose.

 

If only 100,000 choose the military they will need uniforms, weapons, barracks to live in, a mess to eat in, and staff to train them while they learn a trade.

 

Where will the money come from to pay for all this?

Same place as the 3 billion quid they are going to waste in Ukraine. It'll give a boost to the economy though, as local builders will be building the new barracks etc.

 

Anyway, IMO it has as much chance of happening as the poll tax.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

It will never get off the ground....the swivelled eyed loons won't be in power......we're getting grownups......

 

What if you are married?

What if you have kids?

Are these 'conscripts' to be compensated for a year of lost earnings?

How will the whole thing ever be enforced?

How will the the whole thing be funded.....oh! The tax payer of course.

 

The only way it could work is if it is totally voluntary with significant incentives......the Tories are dead in the water....oh wait....the big offer...... 75p a day for pensioners....... that'll get them back into power...555 

You forget the universities that will miss an entire year of new entrants. They'll be lovin' that.

[gargamon]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you don't like my posts feel free to put me on ignore- just do it.

Oh, but it's so much more fun to point out the idiocy of your posts.

[transam]

3 hours ago, Thailand said:

I appears the Tories are trying to find ways to give the biggest ever majority to the Labour party!

But, on the Tory's side is voters know about Angela Rayner could be in control...........😱

[theblether]

I was talking to my brother-in-law yesterday, a former HMS Raleigh trainer. He discussed at length the potential discipline related problems but accepted that military discipline had to be imposed otherwise it would be a shambles. He added that military discipline would need to overarch the entire service period, so fighting in a pub = civilian police handing you over to the MP's. I agree. 

 

However, he/we liked the idea of modular training. Youngsters could be put through driving courses, electrical, plumbing, first aid, carpentry, cookery schooling etc. The list is endless and with a bit of wit would not be a dire interruption to their career. 

 

Those that chose the military path could go through HGV courses, parachute training, yachting etc 

 

All recruits with a sporting or musical pedigree could be streamed to elite programmes. 

 

There's far too much concentration on the concept of this being a punishment. And if it were mandatory one-year military service I'd agree. On the other hand, it could and should be a life-changing and life-enhancing event for many. A chance to give them experiences and opportunities they'd never get otherwise in many cases, especially kids from a poor background. 

 

Will it ever happen? No. If the Tories were serious they'd have floated this years ago. It's an electoral gimmick when it should have been a reality.