British Pensioner Struggles with Frozen Pension in Thailand

[billd766]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

This doesn't cover thousands of pensioners. This is the so called New State Pension. The old one is about £50 less a week.

If you know of a better link then please post it.

 

All I did was a simple search and came up with that link. 

 

I didn't write the policy, the UK government did.

 

If you have a problem then they are the people to tell.

 

If you have a better link, then post it and prove them wrong.

 

However, what you have posted is only your word and your opinion, and you have not backed it up in anyway. Why would anybody accept your unsupported word?

 

I have no idea if the link and article are correct. My State pension was frozen in 2009 as I expected it to be.

 

Far better and more knowledgeable people have been trying for decades to get it changed and have not succeeded.

Edited June 1 by billd766
corrected some bad spelling

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No need to guess, the answer is yes, she would continue to receive the amount she was receiving when she was in the UK.  

 

That is correct.

[Nigeone]

23 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, IOM is a self-governing British Crown Dependency and part of the British Islands but not part of the UK.  Not being part of the UK means that, by definition, the IOM cannot be part of Great Britain, either.  I'm surprised that you do not know the content of the Isle of Man Constitution.

I didn’t say we were part of U.K. , we never have been and also never said we were part of Great Britain. We are British though , as my passport would confirm . I’m well aware of my countries standing . 

[Nigeone]

26 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Duplicate sorry 

Edited June 1 by Nigeone

[Jonathan Swift]

12 hours ago, freeworld said:

A lesson to all the digital nomads roaming about the world living in the present and not worrying about the future and retirement money and benefits.

While your comment may have merit outside of this topic, your lack of compassion for the woman in this story speaks loudly as to YOUR character. 

[roo860]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Mandatory Class 1 NI contributions fund pensions and other benefits pensions and are deducted from salaries during the entire period of employment (over certain salary levels) up to retirement age.  NIC don't stop after 35 years.

I never said they did stop after 35 yrs, mine certainly didn't, I said you had to have minimum of 35yrs NIC according to DWP to qualify. 

[Gknrd]

Every day while I am traveling I thank my lucky start I am from the US. 

A lot of EU retirees have it very nice also.

This is just government robbery...

[Jonathan Swift]

What a terrible injustice, misdirected penny pinching bureaucrats with no compassion. It's a crime against humanity. 

[soi3eddie]

14 hours ago, freeworld said:

A lesson to all the digital nomads roaming about the world living in the present and not worrying about the future and retirement money and benefits.

 

I totally agree. Unfortunately, prepare for the UK state pension to be means tested in the not too distant future. Meaning, if you have other income (i.e. property rental), private/company pension or assets, you may get a reduced state pension or nothing at all. Even if you made full contributions for 35+ years. It IS going to happen at some point.

 

Edited June 1 by soi3eddie

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

She'd have to prove that she was living there.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

If you know of a better link then please post it.

 

All I did was a simple search and came up with that link. 

 

I didn't write the policy, the UK government did.

 

If you have a problem then they are the people to tell.

 

If you have a better link, then post it and prove them wrong.

 

However, what you have posted is only your word and your opinion, and you have not backed it up in anyway. Why would anybody accept your unsupported word?

 

I have no idea if the link and article are correct. My State pension was frozen in 2009 as I expected it to be.

 

Far better and more knowledgeable people have been trying for decades to get it changed and have not succeeded.

Hey, I'm not getting into the debate about the rights and wrongs. This topic comes up year in, year out. There's a variety of solutions. I was merely pointing out that there is a "new" state pension which is worth more than the old one. Nothing to do with frozen or unfrozen.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-and-pension-rates-2024-to-2025/benefit-and-pension-rates-2024-to-2025

 

Look under State Pension. That's all.

[kiwikeith]

17 hours ago, Hornell said:

Many attempts have been made to get a UK Government to pay all UK expatriates the State pension that is rightfully theirs: all have fallen on stoney ground for reasons that are pretty incomprehensible to those of us on the receiving end. We have paid our NI contributions all our working lives (one assumes!) and we make no demands on the NHS. Private and Government Department (eg armed forces) pensions receive the annual increase; only the 'Old Age ' pension does not. It's not right, whatever the reasons to do with inter-country tax arrangements that are glibly trotted out. I feel very sorry for Mrs Fox and there will be many others in many countries around the world in a similar situation. It is no comfort to be told that we knew of (or should have known) about the regulation before we moved; it still doesn't make it right.

So what would happen if you went back to the UK and stayed there for a while, would your pension be increased, and then you could leave again on the increased pension?? 

[bradiston]

45 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

So what would happen if you went back to the UK and stayed there for a while, would your pension be increased, and then you could leave again on the increased pension?? 

I guess you'd need to be UK resident for at least 180 days a year. So it might work if you did 6 months there and 6 months elsewhere. But I'm no expert.

[DonniePeverley]

If you leave the UK, and reside abroad then all pensions, perks should be cancelled. 

 

Do Thai's pay their citizens when they leave to other countries? No. 

 

I got relatives in Canada, who claim a state pension in Canada, and get their UK pension too. With dual citizenship they then come to the UK to use the NHS, and get all dentistry taken care off. 

 

Ridiculous lax system. 

[PeeJayEm]

18 hours ago, sidneybear said:

That's sad. There's no reason, other than cruelty, for the British government to freeze overseas pensions of people who have paid National Insurance all their lives.

Rubbish - it's been that way for good reason for 70 years.  People now complaining knew exactly what they would be getting when they made their decision.  Their lack of planning is not a justification for me paying more tax to fund their idiocy and poor decision-making.

[PeeJayEm]

5 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

While your comment may have merit outside of this topic, your lack of compassion for the woman in this story speaks loudly as to YOUR character. 

Rubbish - it's been that way for good reason for 70 years.  People now complaining knew exactly what they would be getting when they made their decision.  Their lack of planning is not a justification for me paying more tax to fund their idiocy and poor decision-making.

[PeeJayEm]

5 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Every day while I am traveling I thank my lucky start I am from the US. 

A lot of EU retirees have it very nice also.

This is just government robbery...

Rubbish - it's been that way for good reason for 70 years.  People now complaining knew exactly what they would be getting when they made their decision.  Their lack of planning is not a justification for me paying more tax to fund their idiocy and poor decision-making.

[PeeJayEm]

4 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

What a terrible injustice, misdirected penny pinching bureaucrats with no compassion. It's a crime against humanity. 

Rubbish - it's been that way for good reason for 70 years.  People now complaining knew exactly what they would be getting when they made their decision.  Their lack of planning is not a justification for me paying more tax to fund their idiocy and poor decision-making.

[nglodnig]

A sad story but I must confess this is not a new situtation. Since OAPs were introduced in 1947-ish it was always clear when leaving the UK the pension will be frozen (although this got changed with the EU and also Swiss residents, and for some unknown reason the Philippines).

BUT:

 

Us old fogies were ignored as we lose our  vote so nobody cared what we thought after 15 years of non-residence, This law has changed - I've got my vote back! Whether I will receive my voting papers and return them in time is wishful thinking at best.

Edited June 1 by nglodnig

[nglodnig]

7 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

Do Thai's pay their citizens when they leave to other countries? No. 

 

My wife has got a (miniscule) government pension for some years now living outside Thailand. What do you base this on? The pension she gets will buy a bowl of noodles I think.

[bkk_mike]

17 hours ago, DaLa said:

Would it make more sense to lobby the Thai government to enter into a reciprocal social security agreement with the UK government. An increase in all those 'frozen' pensions would result in £ entering the country and ฿ in the economy. If the Philippines have the facility/legislation then it can't be rocket science for it to be introduced here.

The UK stopped signing new reciprocal agreements in 1981.

The only time since then that countries got added was with the EU Single market as it became illegal to pay different amounts to people just because they moved to another country in the EU.

You might have a better chance of persuading the CPTPP to have a similar rule, and force the UK (and New Zealand, which is the other country that freezes pensions of people who retire abroad) to increase pensions consistently across CPTPP members.

After all, the UK state pension isn't frozen if you live in the Philippines, but is frozen in Thailand...

[bkk_mike]

46 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

If you leave the UK, and reside abroad then all pensions, perks should be cancelled. 

 

Do Thai's pay their citizens when they leave to other countries? No. 

 

I got relatives in Canada, who claim a state pension in Canada, and get their UK pension too. With dual citizenship they then come to the UK to use the NHS, and get all dentistry taken care off. 

 

Ridiculous lax system. 

You know, if they're living full time in Canada, they're technically not allowed to travel to the UK to use the NHS.

It's called fraud.

[happyaussie]

Well at least the UK pays pensioners who reside overseas.

To receive an Australian old age pension you must reside in Australia. This way the government gets it all back via Australia's ridiculous tax regime. Unless of course you're a retired politician, then you can do what you want. 

After decades of working hard and paying taxes, pensioners should be allowed the dignity of living where ever they want.

[Baht Simpson]

3 hours ago, PeeJayEm said:

Their lack of planning is not a justification for me paying more tax to fund their idiocy and poor decision-making.

That's idiotic. If we all returned home all our pensions would be uprated and we would all get higher pensions which the taxpayers including yourself would have to fund. Not to mention all the U.K.benefits that are denied us. Be careful what you wish for. 

[Baht Simpson]

3 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

If you leave the UK, and reside abroad then all pensions, perks should be cancelled. 

A pension is not a perk. It's a legal entitlement that's based on 35 years or more of contributions. There are no other perks. 

[Felton Jarvis]

Maybe America should be sending foreign aid money to the UK. I would feel much better about it than sending cash to Islamic backwaters and other tenuous allies.

[animalmagic]

20 hours ago, Homburg said:

Much of the pension money paid by UK government to pensioners resident in the UK is recovered through taxes paid by the pensioners in the UK.  These taxes are recovered through a variety of means - Council Tax, VAT, fuel taxes, IPT, taxes on the businesses that pensioners buy from (including supermarkets), etc.  These taxes cannot be recovered for non-resident pensioners who therefore cost the government more than resident pensioners, so the government "freezes" these pensions in order to compensate.

True, but please explain why a pensioner living in the Philippines gets the uprating but one in Thailand does not?  Neither pays any taxes in UK as you list above.

[brianthainess]

21 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Which is a lot more than most Thais get from their government.

Son must be useless.

Thais only have to pay 30b for health care, even so I agree their pension is low but how many paid tax/NI for 30+ years. 

[supermac]

2 different answers to this question , Which one is correct ? If anyone has conclusive evidence within the UK . GOV website please provide a link as am sure of the DWP interpretation.

I think the proof is in the detail. Liverpool Lou s interpretation is  " The payment remains the same at the amount paid before leaving the UK* I sincerely hope this correct as I will temporarily relocate to the UK or the Philippines every 4 or 5 years for the pension update and would suggest every expat does the same if financially viable.

However This can be interpreted in 2 ways the first time you left the UK and your pension was frozen , or the date you left the UK after returning to reclaim your uprated amount , 2 different interpretations 2 completely outcomes

 

 

 

The simple answer to that is NO. If the DWP know you have left the country after a pension upgrade, they will reduce it to the previous payment.

No, they do not reduce state pensions, the payment remains at the amount paid before leaving the UK.

Edited June 2 by supermac

[john donson]

if she worked 40 year, it is a shame what any country is doing to freeze pensions

 

they are no burden to the UK healthcare system as they pay out nothing

 

pure theft ...at least the UK does not steal upon death for 300.000 pounds , right?

 

in any other socialist country in west-europe, the state will still 35-55% on top if it is over 50.000 euros inheritance