Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[ChaiyaTH]

10 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Of course; the majority of your people married way too young (bar) girls, behave like apes and spend basically zero. No wonder there is a negative sentiment. Maybe that's why I and friends rarely have issues too; we are younger. We don't have that stigma, as long showing we have money.

 

Thais could miss the revenue from the old guys are a teeth that hurts and needs to be removed. Your nothing on the 500 billion USD GDP. They would value the social value etc, but that lacks just as much with old guys, they are actually usually grumpy or self isolated.

 

It's a nasty thing in their history, they want to erase and forget about. Just as much as Vietnamese want to forget their history.

Dislike it as much you guys want, im confident it will happen, as most of you recognize yourself in it. It is the truth; like it or not. Every old guy player I know, knows this.

[Paris333]

The article is very clear:

Expatriates with Taxed Income For expatriates receiving income already taxed in another country, such as pensions, these amounts will not be subject to additional Thai taxes. This is particularly relevant for retirees living in Thailand who receive pensions from their home countries.

Source:

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/new-tax-rules-for-foreign-sourced-income-464735

So if you have Saving Account in Europe and you are retired in permanent residency in Thailand it doesnt have to do or you are not  obliged to transfer your Savings in Thai Banks to receive almost zero interest rates.

You can tranfer them periodically for your needs with.....low Bank fees with Revolut as I do not only in Thais but also to U.A.E where I bought two small 55 sq/m apartments just for renting €1.500 + €1.500 = €3.000 per month income.

Are you searching for idiots to liquidate my small assets and to tranfer them in Thais receiving almost zero interest rates or to tax "me" in order Seven party Thai Government to give "benefits" to Thais?

You are not serious!!!

Source:

https://www.revolut.com/en-LU/money-transfer/send-money-to-thailand/

There is a general misunderstanding about of those who have been or periodically visit Thailand that they are illegals in something or in worst case they are "seniors" searching for prostitutes or childs dull bubble sh.....ts stories.

Of course its not true at least to the extent mentioned in portals......

We are legal citizens nothing to hide and above of Thais tax law since we are legal foreigners from European or American States.

[Jingthing]

Right so I'm hearing pension income is exempt but if you transfer it in, does it need to be reported on Thai tax or not or is there no definite answer on that.

I fear.people that dont owe tax will be forced to pay high fees to advisors who.will be giving contradictory opinions depending on where you go.

I find this very annoying.

As a non immigrant retiree what services does the Thai government provide?

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The Thai tax law has always required tax residents to file a return, all that has changed this year is the year of remittance rule. Of course they can go back 10 years.

But clearly about zero percent of retired expats without Thai based income have been filing before with zero consequence.

[Klonko]

3 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

These are exactly my fears. In the worst case scenario, I would have to fly to Europe to get these documents - no one knows which documents at the moment. Then have it translated into Thai and then certified by my embassy in Bangkok. Then the certainly well-trained, regional island tax officer, who knows the DTAs in detail, would possibly conjure up a tax payment from his Excel 95 computer, which, if it was too high or not comprehensible, I would immediately dispute with the help of my Thai tax expert. My tax/income cases are much more complicated than compared to a pensioner who receives their pension every month. That's why I'm waiting for now, and yes, I'm waiting for the invitation from the tax office. Furthermore, I would not be able to quantify my income for 2024 at the end of March 2025. Here we come back to the DTA of my home country, where I first have to pay tax on my profits/income from real estate ownership in my home country. etc.

For foreign real estate income under DTA. the only "foolproof" solution is to keep foreign real estate income on a non interest bearing account and only remit when the foreign taxes have been finally assessed and paid. In my case, I have to wait up to two years before I can remit with instantaneous tax credit, otherwise I would have to pay full Thai taxes and try to reclaim DTA tax credit in arrears. 

[Klonko]

2 hours ago, Paris333 said:

The article is very clear:

Expatriates with Taxed Income For expatriates receiving income already taxed in another country, such as pensions, these amounts will not be subject to additional Thai taxes. This is particularly relevant for retirees living in Thailand who receive pensions from their home countries.

Source:

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/new-tax-rules-for-foreign-sourced-income-464735

So if you have Saving Account in Europe and you are retired in permanent residency in Thailand it doesnt have to do or you are not  obliged to transfer your Savings in Thai Banks to receive almost zero interest rates.

You can tranfer them periodically for your needs with.....low Bank fees with Revolut as I do not only in Thais but also to U.A.E where I bought two small 55 sq/m apartments just for renting €1.500 + €1.500 = €3.000 per month income.

Are you searching for idiots to liquidate my small assets and to tranfer them in Thais receiving almost zero interest rates or to tax "me" in order Seven party Thai Government to give "benefits" to Thais?

You are not serious!!!

Source:

https://www.revolut.com/en-LU/money-transfer/send-money-to-thailand/

There is a general misunderstanding about of those who have been or periodically visit Thailand that they are illegals in something or in worst case they are "seniors" searching for prostitutes or childs dull bubble sh.....ts stories.

Of course its not true at least to the extent mentioned in portals......

We are legal citizens nothing to hide and above of Thais tax law since we are legal foreigners from European or American States.

Just keep in mind that keeping your savings on a foreign savings account carries interest which commingles your savings with tax assessable income when remitted. I expect TRD to apply a pro rata accounting method rather than FIFO or LIFO. Optimists hope that the accounting method can be chosen by the taxpayer.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Klonko said:

For foreign real estate income under DTA. the only "foolproof" solution is to keep foreign real estate income on a non interest bearing account and only remit when the foreign taxes have been finally assessed and paid. In my case, I have to wait up to two years before I can remit with instantaneous tax credit, otherwise I would have to pay full Thai taxes and try to reclaim DTA tax credit in arrears. 

I understand that fully. But only the fact, that Thailand want to have my income report for 2024 at End March 2025. That is impossible. The last tax report from my homecontry they can have is from 2022.

The 2023 year income report I can give maybe at March 2025. And my taxreport for this year 2024 will be ready maybe at February 2026. If that a provincial Thai Tax officer will understand? I have my doubts.

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Right so I'm hearing pension income is exempt but if you transfer it in, does it need to be reported on Thai tax or not or is there no definite answer on that.

I fear.people that dont owe tax will be forced to pay high fees to advisors who.will be giving contradictory opinions depending on where you go.

I find this very annoying.

As a non immigrant retiree what services does the Thai government provide?

No, not all pension income is exempt, it depends on your DTA.

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But clearly about zero percent of retired expats without Thai based income have been filing before with zero consequence.

I filed and I don't have Thai income.......:)

[JackGats]

As far as I am concerned I didn't retire in Thailand to have to grapple with DTAs. In my case DTAs can only mean I'll have to pay wherever and whenever I didn't have to. Thank you very much I'll pass.

 

I can get laid  in TH and that was my main reason to be in TH, but only together with TH being a tax haven. This is because in order properly to get laid I need to keep all my money for myself.

 

Instead of racking our brains out about developments we cannot foresee nor prevent, we could do worse than start discussing alternatives to Thailand. For the infos to be useful we should do so in threads about individual countries (example: "Jamaica as an alternative to TH"). Discussing loads of countries in one single thread will yield no useful infos for forum, users. Each discussion should focus on 1) visas & residency 2) taxes 3) banking.

 

Just a thought.

[Presnock]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.

from my reading of the TRD code, rule number one says a person who is liable to personal income tax must obtain a TAX id NUMBER (TIN) witin 60 days from the date he "derives" ASSESSABLE INCOME, therefore, it seems to me that the TRD should advise people like me that have a US govt pension only, or those who have a BOI LTR who are not currently "liable" for income tax, that we are not required to file income tax forms not obtain a TIN.  Just saying  in that if they would state something like this, it would lower the number of queries/visits from expats to the TRD.  Unless they change their rule on obtaining a TIN I do not plan to go the the RD for a TIN.

[Klonko]

2 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

I understand that fully. But only the fact, that Thailand want to have my income report for 2024 at End March 2025. That is impossible. The last tax report from my homecontry they can have is from 2022.

The 2023 year income report I can give maybe at March 2025. And my taxreport for this year 2024 will be ready maybe at February 2026. If that a provincial Thai Tax officer will understand? I have my doubts.

It is highly unlikely that Thailand will introduce global taxation retroactively for tax year 2024. You do not need to submit documentation with your tax filing under the current territorial tax regime, only if TRD asks you to prove tax credits or remittances not to be tax assessable income. I cannot imagine that global taxation would be introduced without changes to existing processes. I consider global taxation, if at all, not likely before tax year 2026.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

from my reading of the TRD code, rule number one says a person who is liable to personal income tax must obtain a TAX id NUMBER (TIN) witin 60 days from the date he "derives" ASSESSABLE INCOME, therefore, it seems to me that the TRD should advise people like me that have a US govt pension only, or those who have a BOI LTR who are not currently "liable" for income tax, that we are not required to file income tax forms not obtain a TIN.  Just saying  in that if they would state something like this, it would lower the number of queries/visits from expats to the TRD.  Unless they change their rule on obtaining a TIN I do not plan to go the the RD for a TIN.

The TRD doesn't give that sort of advice, that only happens back in nanny pampered land where it's assumed that people can't tie their own shoe laces without being told how. It's down to us to work these things out and I think many of us have.

 

When I posted my reply that you quoted, I didn't write out in long hand all the words that would make my statement 100% grammatically and factually correct. At this late stage in the game, we are after all 8 months in to these discussions, it has to be assumed that most people understand that the "threshold" refers to assessable income. If some people don't understand that, they are latecomers who have some reading and catching up to do.

[Mike Lister]

6 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

If you say so. The deadline is anyway in 9 month. So no panic. There will and must come more clarification from the Thai tax authority's. Now it is only a storm in a water cup.

Whereas I would suggest it's only a storm in the minds of a few.

 

Your statement that "there will and must come more clarification from the TRD" is interesting....I'm betting not, why would there be. Were you imagining that instructions will be mailed, slots made available for tutorials in prime time TV? The TRD Code has existed for decades, albeit it is tweaked from time to time. A small change was made to one rule last year and it was announced, what more needs to be said. The locals must be watching all this farang angst and giggling in embarrassment, they don't see any problem whatsoever. "If farang no understand, why he not go TRD office and ask or read Revenue book", they must be saying. They would have a point! A big part of the problem is that many foreigners are expecting a process similar to "back home", which I'm pretty certain aint going to happen.

[Presnock]

47 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Whereas I would suggest it's only a storm in the minds of a few.

 

Your statement that "there will and must come more clarification from the TRD" is interesting....I'm betting not, why would there be. Were you imagining that instructions will be mailed, slots made available for tutorials in prime time TV? The TRD Code has existed for decades, albeit it is tweaked from time to time. A small change was made to one rule last year and it was announced, what more needs to be said. The locals must be watching all this farang angst and giggling in embarrassment, they don't see any problem whatsoever. "If farang no understand, why he not go TRD office and ask or read Revenue book", they must be saying. They would have a point! A big part of the problem is that many foreigners are expecting a process similar to "back home", which I'm pretty certain aint going to happen.

Yeah, if you noted some of my passages, you would see I become more and more disenchanted with the possible spread of information from the TRD prior to 2025.  But you already know my financial situation so it really doesn't impact me much.  Just as an old man having lived around the world and would like to think the Thais have grown up already but as we say TIT and anything or nothing goes.  Have a good one.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yeah, if you noted some of my passages, you would see I become more and more disenchanted with the possible spread of information from the TRD prior to 2025.  But you already know my financial situation so it really doesn't impact me much.  Just as an old man having lived around the world and would like to think the Thais have grown up already but as we say TIT and anything or nothing goes.  Have a good one.

That growing up part has got some way to go yet, probably not in my life time.

[Lorry]

11 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

spend basically zero

This is an exaggeration just as the wrong as the pensioners who think they carry all the weight of the Thai economy.

 

A tourist spends a high daily average for 2 or 3 weeks, but a lot of this money does not arrive at the Thai economy, it goes to foreign companies, Hilton, Emirates etc. Of course, these big lump payments are easily taxed by brown envelopes,  so decision makers in Thailand like them.

 

Pensioners spend all year round, not only two of three years. They spend lump sums that go directly into the Thai economy, like condos, cars, washing machines.

Their daily average i do not dare to guess. I know pensioners whose daily average is incredible low. Personally, I spend much, much more per day since I live here than when I was a tourist. 

 

in aggregate,  tourists are, of course,  much more important because they are many more. 

[Lorry]

11 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

way too young (bar) girls,

The guys playing with them are the tourists, not the pensioners. 

Especially younger tourists 

 

[Presnock]

2 minutes ago, Lorry said:

This is an exaggeration just as the wrong as the pensioners who think they carry all the weight of the Thai economy.

 

A tourist spends a high daily average for 2 or 3 weeks, but a lot of this money does not arrive at the Thai economy, it goes to foreign companies, Hilton, Emirates etc. Of course, these big lump payments are easily taxed by brown envelopes,  so decision makers in Thailand like them.

 

Pensioners spend all year round, not only two of three years. They spend lump sums that go directly into the Thai economy, like condos, cars, washing machines.

Their daily average i do not dare to guess. I know pensioners whose daily average is incredible low. Personally, I spend much, much more per day since I live here than when I was a tourist. 

 

in aggregate,  tourists are, of course,  much more important because they are many more. 

Well except what the locals call the "zero-dollar" tourists, like many Chinese pay in China, get a voucher which is then useable only at Chinese owned businesses and while here they go mostly to Chinese owned businesses - restaurants, etc.  With over 17 million already here this 6 months, I would have thought many businesses would be doing well instead ofclosing or worrying about closing.  I know I still spend "my fair share" daily - order from restaurants several meals a day - are healthy meals only so come with a price but worth it in the long run.  Daughter is a college student here so paying for that too.

But I am not complaining about the cost or spending, just that as an expat we are not treated as equals here.  Oh well just so they don't bother me I won't complain.  I have an LTR so no immigration hassles for 10 years, still have the TM.30 though if they get the online really reliable then that would be okay too.  I love it still and have no plan to ever leave.

[Presnock]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The TRD doesn't give that sort of advice, that only happens back in nanny pampered land where it's assumed that people can't tie their own shoe laces without being told how. It's down to us to work these things out and I think many of us have.

 

When I posted my reply that you quoted, I didn't write out in long hand all the words that would make my statement 100% grammatically and factually correct. At this late stage in the game, we are after all 8 months in to these discussions, it has to be assumed that most people understand that the "threshold" refers to assessable income. If some people don't understand that, they are latecomers who have some reading and catching up to do.

Well from reading daily, I realize that no matter how many times any of those that have done the basic and even more than basic research into this issue, way too many folks think that they are totally alone with their particular finances...but it would be impossible I guess to really have an "expert" accurately tell one what the TRD will determine as assessable or not.  I am not sure that anyone in any TRD office really begins to understand how unique every expat may be...if immigration which meets thousands every year and can't keep it all straight, just how will these TRD outlying officials every begin to understand what kind of a hornets nest they have opened.  Come 2025, should be some interesting stories here on this forum.  Good luck to all

[JimGant]

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Your statement that "there will and must come more clarification from the TRD" is interesting....I'm betting not, why would there be

Yeah, why, indeed, would there be any clarification needed. Thus, as there's nothing in the Thai tax code about accounting convention for remittances -- you're then free to choose whatever convention best suits your bottom line. For me, that's FIFO.

[JimGant]

15 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.

And if you don't -- naughty, naughty, naughty.

[norbra]

23 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And if you don't -- naughty, naughty, naughty.

Another interesting line in the TRD code is that "monies returned to Thailand" are tax exempt.

[redwood1]

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.

 

 

 

 

Have you guys seen the long long lines at the Tax offices of the Thais eager to get their tax number within 60 days of their income exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k)??

 

LOL

 

Most Thais have never been to the tax office in their life and they have no plans to visit a tax office EVER......

 

There are LOADS of Thai laws that are ignored.....Especially by the Thais regarding taxes...

[Mike Teavee]

17 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.

 

 

 

 

Have you guys seen the long long lines at the Tax offices of the Thais eager to get their tax number within 60 days of their income exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k)??

 

LOL

 

Most Thais have never been to the tax office in their life and they have no plans to visit a tax office EVER......

 

There are LOADS of Thai laws that are ignored.....Especially by the Thais regarding taxes...

 

I understand the point you're making, but it was a bad example as Thais are given a TIN at Birth (It's their national ID number) so there is no need for them to go get one. 

[Mike Lister]

34 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.

 

 

 

 

Have you guys seen the long long lines at the Tax offices of the Thais eager to get their tax number within 60 days of their income exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k)??

 

LOL

 

Most Thais have never been to the tax office in their life and they have no plans to visit a tax office EVER......

 

There are LOADS of Thai laws that are ignored.....Especially by the Thais regarding taxes...

An interesting defence, the local Thai's weren't applying for TIN's so I thought I wouldn't apply either.....that should work out well for you, let us know how it goes.

[phetphet]

Am I misunderstanding that all income outside of Dual Tax Agreements brought into Thailand in 2024 will not be taxed, but from 2025 all income outside DTA's, including savings will be taxed?

Wondering how someone can prove tax has been paid on savings built up over years.

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Am I misunderstanding that all income outside of Dual Tax Agreements brought into Thailand in 2024 will not be taxed, but from 2025 all income outside DTA's, including savings will be taxed?

Wondering how someone can prove tax has been paid on savings built up over years.

Bizzare understanding....no, very wrong!

[jayboy]

7 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The locals must be watching all this farang angst and giggling in embarrassment, they don't see any problem whatsoever. "If farang no understand, why he not go TRD office and ask or read Revenue book", they must be saying

 

Oh dear

[TheAppletons]

34 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Am I misunderstanding that all income outside of Dual Tax Agreements brought into Thailand in 2024 will not be taxed, but from 2025 all income outside DTA's, including savings will be taxed?

Wondering how someone can prove tax has been paid on savings built up over years.

  

  Yes, you are misunderstanding.