Engaging with Russians during wartime in Thailand?

[BobBKK]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I consider Taiwan a nation independent of China. Yes.

Middle eastern stuff too off topic here.

 Part of China as a sovereign state - it is ON TOPIC as it highlights your hypocrisy over Ukraine. What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Part of China as a sovereign state - it is ON TOPIC as it highlights your hypocrisy over Ukraine. What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

If you're simple minded.

[Expat Rob]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:49 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Agree, that said, I only really know one and he doesn't want to return to go to war as he has family here, so he has skipped.

 

When ever I see him at the bar, I call out, hey, my Ukrainian friend, how are you, and he laughs, easy going guy to get on with, about 40, great sense of humor, and knows a lot about history and this is basically how he summed it up for me regarding, as you said; it's Putin and co forcing them to fight, but not for nothing.

 

Zelensky didn't try to prevent the conflict through diplomacy because he lacks honor and integrity. In 2014 there was a coup. Soon after, there was a massacre in Odessa (dozens of Russians were burned alive).

 

Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine were treated as subhuman. Their language and culture was being oppressed. A civil war broke out due to the rise in ethnic tensions. For 8 years the Ukrainian military was indiscriminately shelling civilians living in Donbas.

 

If Zelensky honored the Minsk agreement and pledged neutrality, none of this would have happened.

 

The 8 year civil war would have ended and Donbas would have remained part of Ukraine. War is the ultimate failure of diplomacy.

 

Zelensky, Poroshenko, Merkel and Hollande admitted that Ukraine had no intention to honor the Minsk agreements.

 

Who didn't want peace? Who advised against the 2022 peace talks in April?

 

Hint: Remember someone visited Zelensky in Kiev at that time. Russia's national security was compromised once NATO began to expand eastwards.

 

Russia clearly stated that Ukraine joining NATO was a red line (November 2021) and unfortunately this concern was never taken seriously. The Russians openly stated: if nothing changes, we will be forced to act in order to defend our national security. Enhancing the national security of one country at the expense of another is unacceptable.

 

The Russians have legitimate security concerns. 20th September, 2021. Ukraine launched military drills with US and NATO. NATO is not a defensive alliance. NATO illegally bombed Yugoslavia (a direct violation of the U.N. Charter).

 

He said, we should never forget what they did to Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Who blew up the pipeline causing an environmental disaster?

 

Zelensky banned all opposition and arrested a leading priest.

 

Zelensky tried to invoke article 5 under false pretenses. Remember the incident in Poland he said.

 

Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine were treated as subhuman. Their language and culture was being oppressed. Poroshenko said, “Our children will go to schools and kindergartens—theirs will hide in the basements”. Russians will never forget the 2014 Odessa massacre.

 

He said the whole world needs to know about it he said, but they are fed what they want to feed them.

 

Why was Denis Kireev eliminated? He was a member of Ukraine's negotiating team during the peace negotiations. He wanted to help his country. Ukraine has a hit list.

 

There is evidence that Ukrainian troops have been indiscriminately shelling civilians in Donbas (they used petal mines and targeted areas where there was no military presence). The Azov troops trapped in the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol used human shields. They refused to allow civilians to leave despite of humanitarian corridors being present.

 

Russia held a proposed cease fire in order for the civilians to leave, but Azov would not allow the civilians to leave. Ukraine has committed many acts of terrorism (car bombs and other forms of assassination). Darya Dugina (journalist) R.I.P. The first terrorist attack on the Kerch Bridge killed the truck driver and the individuals in the adjacent car (innocent civilian victims).

 

The 2nd terrorist attack on the Kerch Bridge killed two parents and severely injured their young daughter. In order to explain this whole situation in great detail, a book would need to be written.

 

I just passing on what he told me, obviously there was much more, to sum it up, he said, NATO is an evil, it is not what they are projecting it to be to us, it is a useful tool which helps them do whatever they want to do, and of course they pay for it.

 

He added, we get fed a lot of propaganda, that said, he said that he didn't want to fight for his country, because governments use people to protect their rights for freedom, which to him was a load of crap, it's big business to protect their interests, and NATO pushing forward made a huge mistake, why because Putin, will use Nuks in the end, if pushed.

 

 

A lot of red herrings here. Ukraine was never close to joining NATO, in addition Turkey and Hungary would have blocked its addition, Putin knew this and used joining NATO as a ruse to invade.

[Expat Rob]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:49 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Agree, that said, I only really know one and he doesn't want to return to go to war as he has family here, so he has skipped.

 

When ever I see him at the bar, I call out, hey, my Ukrainian friend, how are you, and he laughs, easy going guy to get on with, about 40, great sense of humor, and knows a lot about history and this is basically how he summed it up for me regarding, as you said; it's Putin and co forcing them to fight, but not for nothing.

 

Zelensky didn't try to prevent the conflict through diplomacy because he lacks honor and integrity. In 2014 there was a coup. Soon after, there was a massacre in Odessa (dozens of Russians were burned alive).

 

Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine were treated as subhuman. Their language and culture was being oppressed. A civil war broke out due to the rise in ethnic tensions. For 8 years the Ukrainian military was indiscriminately shelling civilians living in Donbas.

 

If Zelensky honored the Minsk agreement and pledged neutrality, none of this would have happened.

 

The 8 year civil war would have ended and Donbas would have remained part of Ukraine. War is the ultimate failure of diplomacy.

 

Zelensky, Poroshenko, Merkel and Hollande admitted that Ukraine had no intention to honor the Minsk agreements.

 

Who didn't want peace? Who advised against the 2022 peace talks in April?

 

Hint: Remember someone visited Zelensky in Kiev at that time. Russia's national security was compromised once NATO began to expand eastwards.

 

Russia clearly stated that Ukraine joining NATO was a red line (November 2021) and unfortunately this concern was never taken seriously. The Russians openly stated: if nothing changes, we will be forced to act in order to defend our national security. Enhancing the national security of one country at the expense of another is unacceptable.

 

The Russians have legitimate security concerns. 20th September, 2021. Ukraine launched military drills with US and NATO. NATO is not a defensive alliance. NATO illegally bombed Yugoslavia (a direct violation of the U.N. Charter).

 

He said, we should never forget what they did to Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Who blew up the pipeline causing an environmental disaster?

 

Zelensky banned all opposition and arrested a leading priest.

 

Zelensky tried to invoke article 5 under false pretenses. Remember the incident in Poland he said.

 

Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine were treated as subhuman. Their language and culture was being oppressed. Poroshenko said, “Our children will go to schools and kindergartens—theirs will hide in the basements”. Russians will never forget the 2014 Odessa massacre.

 

He said the whole world needs to know about it he said, but they are fed what they want to feed them.

 

Why was Denis Kireev eliminated? He was a member of Ukraine's negotiating team during the peace negotiations. He wanted to help his country. Ukraine has a hit list.

 

There is evidence that Ukrainian troops have been indiscriminately shelling civilians in Donbas (they used petal mines and targeted areas where there was no military presence). The Azov troops trapped in the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol used human shields. They refused to allow civilians to leave despite of humanitarian corridors being present.

 

Russia held a proposed cease fire in order for the civilians to leave, but Azov would not allow the civilians to leave. Ukraine has committed many acts of terrorism (car bombs and other forms of assassination). Darya Dugina (journalist) R.I.P. The first terrorist attack on the Kerch Bridge killed the truck driver and the individuals in the adjacent car (innocent civilian victims).

 

The 2nd terrorist attack on the Kerch Bridge killed two parents and severely injured their young daughter. In order to explain this whole situation in great detail, a book would need to be written.

 

I just passing on what he told me, obviously there was much more, to sum it up, he said, NATO is an evil, it is not what they are projecting it to be to us, it is a useful tool which helps them do whatever they want to do, and of course they pay for it.

 

He added, we get fed a lot of propaganda, that said, he said that he didn't want to fight for his country, because governments use people to protect their rights for freedom, which to him was a load of crap, it's big business to protect their interests, and NATO pushing forward made a huge mistake, why because Putin, will use Nuks in the end, if pushed.

 

 

A lot of red herrings here. Ukraine was never close to joining NATO, in addition Turkey and Hungary would have blocked its addition, Putin knew this and used joining NATO as a ruse to invade.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Expat Rob said:

A lot of red herrings here. Ukraine was never close to joining NATO, in addition Turkey and Hungary would have blocked its addition, Putin knew this and used joining NATO as a ruse to invade.

Exactly. And if Putin really cared that much about NATO he wouldn't now be keeping the border with Finland unprotected as he sent those soldiers to his genocidal war against Ukraine. Putin has a hard on for erasing Ukraine. He must be stopped.

[Jingthing]

One thing I'm wondering about is how many Russians have fled Putin's Russia.

I've heard from credible sources from one million up to three million.

Three million sounds crazy but at least a million makes sense to me.

But imagine if it was easier for Russians to find more places that would accept them long term outside of Russia (and assuming Russia doesn't close its borders) how many more millions would flee?

Maybe that's the reason it's been made so hard in most of the world.

[BobBKK]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If you're simple minded.

Maybe I am. I think if you use "a sovereign nation" to defend Ukraine, you should respect it wherever it is found. In your case, you do not - that much is apparent. 

[BobBKK]

28 minutes ago, Expat Rob said:

A lot of red herrings here. Ukraine was never close to joining NATO, in addition Turkey and Hungary would have blocked its addition, Putin knew this and used joining NATO as a ruse to invade.

 Ya, it's a good story... how about some facts? Yanukovych was overthrown by the CIA in 2014, and Nuland went over there to give some cookies to the little Ukrainians and $1bn loan guarantee (funny that).

NATO wants to have control over Russian borders as much as it can. I don't think Russia would rely on Turkey and Hungary being able to block membership. NATO expands where it can. Neutrality would have saved 100,000s but USA doesn't care about that and so Russia had little choice after warning of it for years. Nigel Farage is right - the bear was poked and provoked.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Ya, it's a good story... how about some facts? Yanukovych was overthrown by the CIA in 2014, and Nuland went over there to give some cookies to the little Ukrainians and $1bn loan guarantee (funny that).

NATO wants to have control over Russian borders as much as it can. I don't think Russia would rely on Turkey and Hungary being able to block membership. NATO expands where it can. Neutrality would have saved 100,000s but USA doesn't care about that and so Russia had little choice after warning of it for years. Nigel Farage is right - the bear was poked and provoked.

NATO is a DEFENSIVE organization. 

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

NATO is a DEFENSIVE organization. 

 Tell that to Bosnia and Kosovo, let alone Afghanistan. 

[Hummin]

 

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

NATO is a DEFENSIVE organization. 

Is  China a defensive country? 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

 

I China a defensive country? 

China has become a big bully but their interests are different than Russia.

China will possibly take back Manchuria from Russia if Russia continues to weaken.

It's funny to watch how Putin is now Xi's rhymes with ditch. 

[Lacessit]

53 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Ya, it's a good story... how about some facts? Yanukovych was overthrown by the CIA in 2014, and Nuland went over there to give some cookies to the little Ukrainians and $1bn loan guarantee (funny that).

NATO wants to have control over Russian borders as much as it can. I don't think Russia would rely on Turkey and Hungary being able to block membership. NATO expands where it can. Neutrality would have saved 100,000s but USA doesn't care about that and so Russia had little choice after warning of it for years. Nigel Farage is right - the bear was poked and provoked.

NATO expands because nations want to join it. They remember the 40 some years of being in the Soviet Bloc, with command economies that went nowhere but to Moscow.

 

Fact is, Putin's a kleptomaniac. Ask any of his oligarchs - those who are still alive.

 

One fourth of the world's chernozems, the rich black soil ideal for agriculture, are located in Ukraine. Most wars are theft writ large.

 

Nigel Farage is a useful idiot. From what I read on this thread, he's not the only one.

[frank83628]

this is couple of wewek old now, but dont hear much about it

[frank83628]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

NATO is a DEFENSIVE organization. 

tell Libya that

[frank83628]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

China has become a big bully but their interests are different than Russia.

China will possibly take back Manchuria from Russia if Russia continues to weaken.

It's funny to watch how Putin is now Xi's rhymes with ditch. 

an American calling another country a bully.... IRONY . com !!!

[frank83628]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

We'll see about that, won't we?

I expect the Kirch Bridge is going down within a year and probably much sooner.

and illegal act, or do you condone supply routes being attacked so civilians, women & Childern are effected?? you seem to relish at the thought of innocent people suffering, some guy you are!

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

and illegal act, or do you condone supply routes being attacked so civilians, women & Childern are effected?? you seem to relish at the thought of innocent people suffering, some guy you are!

 

You're supporting Russia, a country that steals and brainwashes non orphaned Ukrainian children and is now beheading POWs.

The Kirch bridge is a legitimate military target.

[frank83628]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. And if Putin really cared that much about NATO he wouldn't now be keeping the border with Finland unprotected as he sent those soldiers to his genocidal war against Ukraine. Putin has a hard on for erasing Ukraine. He must be stopped.

if he wanted to 'erase' Ukriane then why is he concentrating on a few areas only? 

'he must be stopped'...hahah

 

[frank83628]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're supporting Russia, a country that steals and brainwashes non orphaned Ukrainian children and is now beheading POWs.

The Kirch bridge is a legitimate military target.

beheading POW's really, and you have proof of this i'm sure. does your info come from the same person that said 40 babies were beheaded on October 7th?

[charleskerins]

21 hours ago, frank83628 said:

so you don't believe Putin,  then do we have to believe Biden got all those votes?

Frank logic make it your friend .Putin was a dictator in office ,Biden was a challenger not in office.  you can believe what you want but the proof is in the pudding.

[frank83628]

2 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

Frank logic make it your friend .Putin was a dictator in office ,Biden was a challenger not in office.  you can believe what you want but the proof is in the pudding.

so no actual proof, just western propaganda

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

if he wanted to 'erase' Ukriane then why is he concentrating on a few areas only? 

'he must be stopped'...hahah

 

Because he's failing but he hasn't given up. He needs to be made to give up. Like Hitler was.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, charleskerins said:

Frank logic make it your friend .Putin was a dictator in office ,Biden was a challenger not in office.  you can believe what you want but the proof is in the pudding.

Putin Z fascists and Trump Maga fascists. Joined at the hip.

[ChicagoExpat]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:49 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Agree, that said, I only really know one and he doesn't want to return to go to war as he has family here, so he has skipped.

 

When ever I see him at the bar, I call out, hey, my Ukrainian friend, how are you, and he laughs, easy going guy to get on with, about 40, great sense of humor, and knows a lot about history and this is basically how he summed it up for me regarding, as you said; it's Putin and co forcing them to fight, but not for nothing.

 

Zelensky didn't try to prevent the conflict through diplomacy because he lacks honor and integrity. In 2014 there was a coup. Soon after, there was a massacre in Odessa (dozens of Russians were burned alive).

 

Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine were treated as subhuman. Their language and culture was being oppressed. A civil war broke out due to the rise in ethnic tensions. For 8 years the Ukrainian military was indiscriminately shelling civilians living in Donbas.

 

If Zelensky honored the Minsk agreement and pledged neutrality, none of this would have happened.

 

The 8 year civil war would have ended and Donbas would have remained part of Ukraine. War is the ultimate failure of diplomacy.

 

Zelensky, Poroshenko, Merkel and Hollande admitted that Ukraine had no intention to honor the Minsk agreements.

 

Who didn't want peace? Who advised against the 2022 peace talks in April?

 

Hint: Remember someone visited Zelensky in Kiev at that time. Russia's national security was compromised once NATO began to expand eastwards.

 

Russia clearly stated that Ukraine joining NATO was a red line (November 2021) and unfortunately this concern was never taken seriously. The Russians openly stated: if nothing changes, we will be forced to act in order to defend our national security. Enhancing the national security of one country at the expense of another is unacceptable.

 

The Russians have legitimate security concerns. 20th September, 2021. Ukraine launched military drills with US and NATO. NATO is not a defensive alliance. NATO illegally bombed Yugoslavia (a direct violation of the U.N. Charter).

 

He said, we should never forget what they did to Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Who blew up the pipeline causing an environmental disaster?

 

Zelensky banned all opposition and arrested a leading priest.

 

Zelensky tried to invoke article 5 under false pretenses. Remember the incident in Poland he said.

 

Ethnic Russians living in Ukraine were treated as subhuman. Their language and culture was being oppressed. Poroshenko said, “Our children will go to schools and kindergartens—theirs will hide in the basements”. Russians will never forget the 2014 Odessa massacre.

 

He said the whole world needs to know about it he said, but they are fed what they want to feed them.

 

Why was Denis Kireev eliminated? He was a member of Ukraine's negotiating team during the peace negotiations. He wanted to help his country. Ukraine has a hit list.

 

There is evidence that Ukrainian troops have been indiscriminately shelling civilians in Donbas (they used petal mines and targeted areas where there was no military presence). The Azov troops trapped in the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol used human shields. They refused to allow civilians to leave despite of humanitarian corridors being present.

 

Russia held a proposed cease fire in order for the civilians to leave, but Azov would not allow the civilians to leave. Ukraine has committed many acts of terrorism (car bombs and other forms of assassination). Darya Dugina (journalist) R.I.P. The first terrorist attack on the Kerch Bridge killed the truck driver and the individuals in the adjacent car (innocent civilian victims).

 

The 2nd terrorist attack on the Kerch Bridge killed two parents and severely injured their young daughter. In order to explain this whole situation in great detail, a book would need to be written.

 

I just passing on what he told me, obviously there was much more, to sum it up, he said, NATO is an evil, it is not what they are projecting it to be to us, it is a useful tool which helps them do whatever they want to do, and of course they pay for it.

 

He added, we get fed a lot of propaganda, that said, he said that he didn't want to fight for his country, because governments use people to protect their rights for freedom, which to him was a load of crap, it's big business to protect their interests, and NATO pushing forward made a huge mistake, why because Putin, will use Nuks in the end, if pushed.

 

 

This is incredible.  Cut and pasted directly from Kremlin talking points.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:50 PM, spidermike007 said:

I think it is a reflection of the current culture. It was destroyed over a century of callous and murderous leadership. Stalin, Lenin, Khruschev, now Putin.

You forget to mention the nobility and the Czars. You think the revolution happened in a vacuum?

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, frank83628 said:

tell Libya that

and the Balkans.

[spidermike007]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You forget to mention the nobility and the Czars. You think the revolution happened in a vacuum?

No. Exactly like the Hamas attacks, which did not happen in a vacuum either. I do not condone them. Just saying that Israel gives them a very comfortable and easy excuse to operate and conduct their terror.

[frank83628]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

One thing I'm wondering about is how many Russians have fled Putin's Russia.

I've heard from credible sources from one million up to three million.

Three million sounds crazy but at least a million makes sense to me.

But imagine if it was easier for Russians to find more places that would accept them long term outside of Russia (and assuming Russia doesn't close its borders) how many more millions would flee?

Maybe that's the reason it's been made so hard in most of the world.

they have visa free travel to 120 countries, out of 193.
131 for British
150 US

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

they have visa free travel to 120 countries, out of 193.
131 for British
150 US

 

 

If true, that's very misleading.

The vast majority of those would be s-hole countries nobody wants to travel to.

The problem for Russians is that they arrive in countries like Thailand and it's very hard to stay long term, and they're very unwelcome in the west these days to even visit as a tourist.

They could go to Georgia and stay a year on each entry but face a lot of hostility from locals and a government that is led by a pro Putin oligarch -- so that's not secure for them either.

Personally, I think the west should actively recruit the more promising of the Russian draft dodgers. It's not their fault that Putin happened.