Navy Chief Alarmed by Government's Delay on Chinese Submarine

[webfact]

 

Admiral Adung Pan-iam, Navy Chief, has voiced concerns over the Pheu Thai-led government's delay in approving the navy's plan to purchase a Chinese-built submarine. This issue is creating a stir in military and political circles, highlighting the complexities surrounding defence procurement.

 

The initial contract was for a Yuan-class S26T submarine equipped with a German MTU396 engine. However, complications arose when the navy proposed substituting it with a Chinese-made CHD620 engine, which has yet to be used in submarines anywhere, including in China's own fleet.

 

This alteration has put the deal, valued at 12.4 billion baht (£282 million), in limbo. A substantial part of the payment, around 7 billion baht (£159 million), has already been made, further complicating the situation.

 

Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin has expressed legal concerns over the engine swap. This has delayed the final cabinet approval, causing tension among naval commanders, especially for Admiral Adung, who is set to retire at the end of September. He is eager for the purchase to be finalised before his departure.

 

Pheu Thai’s Defence Minister, Suthin Khlangsang, suggested buying a frigate instead of the problematic submarine. However, top navy officials are adamant about getting the submarine, citing operational needs and prior commitments.

 

The decision to choose the S26T submarine over other options, such as secondhand German or Swedish submarines, was initially sanctioned by a previous military-led government shortly before the retirement of former Navy Chief Luechai Ruddit in 2020. Ruddit had pushed for this specific model, dismissing alternatives like a South Korean-built submarine.

 

As tensions mount, the navy awaits the final go-ahead while political and defence leaders weigh the ramifications of altering or sustaining the current procurement plan. This situation not only underscores the challenges in military acquisitions but also reflects broader strategic and political considerations at play.

 

Picture courtesy: CHINA DAILY

 

-- 2024-07-03

 

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[Geoffggi]

Still the burning question remains, WHY does Thailand need a submarine??? 🤯

[Korat Kiwi]

Just go on Aliexpress,  cheaper and delivered quicker:

 

 

                  "What, me worry?" 

 

 

 

Edited July 3 by Korat Kiwi

[connda]

They will just take it to the bottom of the ocean and that will be that.  If they can't enforce hull integrity on a corvette, then they'll sink the sub in no time flat for sure.  It takes discipline to set out to sea.  The HTMS Sukhothai fiasco tells you everything you need to know about discipline in the Thai navy. Status-conscious Thai officers who acquire their commissions by virtue of their wealthy families don't necessarily make good commanders. 

 

Speaking as ex-USN.  Been there, done that.  And I don't see any purpose to a Thai sub program as there is no national security reason for it.  Who are they defensing against?  Rhohinga boat refugees?

[Dan O]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

 

Admiral Adung Pan-iam, Navy Chief, has voiced concerns over the Pheu Thai-led government's delay in approving the navy's plan to purchase a Chinese-built submarine. This issue is creating a stir in military and political circles, highlighting the complexities surrounding defence procurement.

 

The initial contract was for a Yuan-class S26T submarine equipped with a German MTU396 engine. However, complications arose when the navy proposed substituting it with a Chinese-made CHD620 engine, which has yet to be used in submarines anywhere, including in China's own fleet.

 

This alteration has put the deal, valued at 12.4 billion baht (£282 million), in limbo. A substantial part of the payment, around 7 billion baht (£159 million), has already been made, further complicating the situation.

 

Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin has expressed legal concerns over the engine swap. This has delayed the final cabinet approval, causing tension among naval commanders, especially for Admiral Adung, who is set to retire at the end of September. He is eager for the purchase to be finalised before his departure.

 

 

Pheu Thai’s Defence Minister, Suthin Khlangsang, suggested buying a frigate instead of the problematic submarine. However, top navy officials are adamant about getting the submarine, citing operational needs and prior commitments.

 

The decision to choose the S26T submarine over other options, such as secondhand German or Swedish submarines, was initially sanctioned by a previous military-led government shortly before the retirement of former Navy Chief Luechai Ruddit in 2020. Ruddit had pushed for this specific model, dismissing alternatives like a South Korean-built submarine.

 

As tensions mount, the navy awaits the final go-ahead while political and defence leaders weigh the ramifications of altering or sustaining the current procurement plan. This situation not only underscores the challenges in military acquisitions but also reflects broader strategic and political considerations at play.

 

Picture courtesy: CHINA DAILY

 

-- 2024-07-03

 

Get our Daily Newsletter - Click HERE to subscribe

Someone is worried they wont get their kickback before they retire

[steven100]

It's quite possible this untried Chinese engine will not just simple fit in place and therefor complicate things even worse.  

 

good luck with that one ....

[Korat Kiwi]

They were thinking of using this easy to fit engine:

 

 

 

 

But at the 11th hour found out that it's air cooled. (vw beetle engine) 

[Guderian]

Probably caused by heated arguments over who among the politicians and admirals gets what cut of the 5 billion Baht remaining to be paid.

[spidermike007]

I want my toy, it really needs means a lot to my personal ego gratification, and even though we don't have anybody qualified to captain this submarine we still need it. We have a long legacy of not caring how much things cost, and literally vacuuming the treasury out from under the people's feet. So that's not a consideration for us, we just don't care about the expense, it does not mean anything to us. We are not responsible men, after all. We are the Thai armed forces. 

[steven100]

55 minutes ago, Korat Kiwi said:

They were thinking of using this easy to fit engine:

 

 

 

 

But at the 11th hour found out that it's air cooled. (vw beetle engine) 

 

and what a good reliable engine they were too ....    you rarely had any problem with a VW engine,

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Korat Kiwi said:

They were thinking of using this easy to fit engine:

 

 

 

 

But at the 11th hour found out that it's air cooled. (vw beetle engine) 

Dead easy to change though! 

Tin tray under engine.

Undo connections to and mounting bolts, drop engine onto tray.

Get half a dozen mates to lift up back of car and wheel it clear.

Fix /replace engine.

Put engine back in reverse order.

[ignore it]

 

Dear God,

 

Thank you for all the wonderful things in my life. Today, I have a special wish. Could you please help me get a submarine? I promise to use it for fun adventures and to explore the amazing underwater world. I'll be very careful and always share it with my friends.

 

Thank you for listening, and I know you'll do what's best.

 

Amen.

[PETERTHEEATER]

8 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

Still the burning question remains, WHY does Thailand need a submarine??? 🤯

The Admiral has stated "prior committments"as on of the reasons. 😀

 

[trainman34014]

2 hours ago, connda said:

They will just take it to the bottom of the ocean and that will be that.  If they can't enforce hull integrity on a corvette, then they'll sink the sub in no time flat for sure.  It takes discipline to set out to sea.  The HTMS Sukhothai fiasco tells you everything you need to know about discipline in the Thai navy. Status-conscious Thai officers who acquire their commissions by virtue of their wealthy families don't necessarily make good commanders. 

 

Speaking as ex-USN.  Been there, done that.  And I don't see any purpose to a Thai sub program as there is no national security reason for it.  Who are they defensing against?  Rhohinga boat refugees?

One of my Grandfathers and an Uncle spent their entire career's in The Royal Navy and both used to say the Submariners were a different Breed to other Naval Sailors and just looking around inside a Sub' was enough for most to decide it wasn't a good idea !

[248900_1469958220]

oh no.....not the submarines AGAIN????.....

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Admiral Adung Pan-iam, Navy Chief, has voiced concerns over the Pheu Thai-led government's delay in approving the navy's plan to purchase a Chinese-built submarine. This issue is creating a stir in military and political circles, highlighting the complexities surrounding defence procurement.

Biggest waste of time and money..... Thailand doesn't need submarines

just toys and skimming for the elite commanders.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

we don't have anybody qualified to captain this submarine

You can't qualify submariners/officers on something you don't 't have. Although I think with completion of the sub,  present Thai submariner crews were to go to China for training and sea trials. 

[Srikcir]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

This issue is creating a stir in military and political circles, highlighting the complexities surrounding defence procurement.

Since the NCPO, the government has purchased or on order Chinese armored vehicles and foreign hi-tech jet fighters. But nothing for the Navy. My take on this is that the navy isn't very useful in military coups. Hard to threaten protesting civilians by threatening to dock a ship.

[mokwit]

28 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Since the NCPO, the government has purchased or on order Chinese armored vehicles and foreign hi-tech jet fighters. But nothing for the Navy. My take on this is that the navy isn't very useful in military coups. Hard to threaten protesting civilians by threatening to dock a ship.

You are forgetting that Bangkok is going to be underwater in a few years.

[newnative]

       Seems like Thailand is getting along just fine without a submarine.  Find a better use for the money--and that would be just about anything.  

[mokwit]

6 minutes ago, newnative said:

       Seems like Thailand is getting along just fine without a submarine.  Find a better use for the money--and that would be just about anything.  

The Navy said that the reason they should have one is because all other countries in the region have them. I would have thought that if that were the case they should be buying an anti submarine destroyer.

[oxo1947]

7 hours ago, connda said:

And I don't see any purpose to a Thai sub program as there is no national security reason for it. 

Would you advise Governments to wait until there is a national security reason, then go shopping connda?

[john donson]

10-20% bribe, that is the only reason

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Since the NCPO, the government has purchased or on order Chinese armored vehicles and foreign hi-tech jet fighters. But nothing for the Navy. My take on this is that the navy isn't very useful in military coups. Hard to threaten protesting civilians by threatening to dock a ship.

Oh I don't know, didn't they manage to shell the dock whilst parking one of their LGBs (Large Grey Boats) recently.

 

Now, accidents happen, but to have an ND (negligent discharge) with your ships main armament whilst parking it is a remarkable achievement!

[cowellandrew]

Ah the German engines!

 

 

[Grumpy one]

On 7/3/2024 at 5:47 AM, Geoffggi said:

Still the burning question remains, WHY does Thailand need a submarine??? 🤯

Because they had one in the 50's and have a submarine day celebration. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 7/3/2024 at 11:52 AM, Korat Kiwi said:

They were thinking of using this easy to fit engine:

 

 

 

 

But at the 11th hour found out that it's air cooled. (vw beetle engine) 

 

They could use a snorkel. 

[Korat Kiwi]

36 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

They could use a snorkel. 

What... for the submariners or the engine? 

 

Be ok in the shallows but doubtful once they dive! 

[Srikcir]

20 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Oh I don't know, didn't they manage to shell the dock whilst parking one of their LGBs (Large Grey Boats) recently.

 

Now, accidents happen, but to have an ND (negligent discharge) with your ships main armament whilst parking it is a remarkable achievement!

Aldo remarkable. It's not every nation that has an aircraft carrier having no naval aircraft. 

[BKKKevin]

Didn't they convert on of their cruisers into a submarine?...