half-Thai child moving to Thailand with Thai mom

[NativeBob]

8 minutes ago, john donson said:

a daughter has little future in TH, useless degree, rapists all over, neighbors, uncles

Unfortunately true, unless her dad is in Thailand and has strong connection in entertainment industry. 

[john donson]

17 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The education system isn't that bad in Thailand, lots of posters here have a sense of superiority about their home countries being so much better, but this does not align with my observations. European youths are often vulgar and disrespectful (especially in the UK, IMO) so whatever those superior edication systems are teaching them, they are not teaching them to behave themselves (and most of them have sh*t jobs).

 

At least Thais have some respect for their elders, provided they had good parents. Because that is what it comes down to: the parents. People rely on the education system too much.

 

you mean international school that costs a million baht per year for kindergarten?

[rattlesnake]

 

3 minutes ago, john donson said:

 

you mean international school that costs a million baht per year for kindergarten?

 

No, but given you have just dropped the below gem, I will not attempt to reason with you.

 

22 minutes ago, john donson said:

a daughter has little future in TH, useless degree, rapists all over, neighbors, uncles, ...

[khunPer]

On 7/16/2024 at 1:36 AM, JimmyB81 said:

Details:

1. I am UK/EU citizen and had a child recently with Thai (now ex) Girlfriend in UK.

2. We were not married but she has UK residence (IRL). 

3. I am named as Father on the Childs birth certificate (UK). 

4. Baby has a UK Passport and my ex is planning to get her a Thai passport soon.

5. Currently, my ex is happy to stay in the UK, but wants to move to Thailand in the future with our child (3-5 years time).

6. Before we separated, we (or rather I) had built a house in Thailand for us to live in the future, with our chld(ren).

7. Things are relatively amicable between us currently. My ex has promised to give the house and land that I paid for to my daughter (when she turns 18). 

 

We are about to start the process for custody/access arrangements for our child, for here in the UK, and for the future if/when they move to Thailand.

This is at my request. My ex wants to keep things informal. I have been advised to get a formal arrangement by a men's support group and my therapist, who both have told me that I have been a victim of emotional abuse from my ex and that she cannot be trusted.

I want to keep things amicable with her (for the child's sake), to avoid the courts (for our pockets sake) and to reach agreement on shared custody with her, either by discussion or mediation. 

I am concerned that I will loose the parental rights that I have here once she moves to Thailand, so as part of our agreement, I want to make sure all the necessary steps are taken now, or at least formally noted in our agreement, so there is an obligation on her to do what is necessary in Thailand to safeguard my parental right there.

 

What I am looking for advice on is how to:

 a) legitimize my status as childs father in Thailand ( i can do this by going there with her next time she visits her family), but I'm not sure exactly how and if the child needs to be over a certain age?

 b) ensure I am allowed shared custody of the child in Thailand (this is an extra step or it becomes automatic with the legitimization?)

c) have the ability to take my child outside of Thailand on her summer holidays (subject to prior access agreement with her mom)

d) ensure that my ex does put her (my) house and land into our child's name at the appropriate age. I am assuming a pre-agreement of some sort? 

e) any other steps I should be taking given the situation I'm in?

 

Probably I will need to get advice from a Thai family lawyer in the future before she moves there, but as I said , I want to at least include these requirements for me having my custody rights in Thailand as 'obligations' on my ex to do in future, as part of our imminent UK Custody agreement.

 

Any tips or advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

To my experience and knowledge – I have a half-Thai daughter with my girlfriend:

 

"a) legitimize my status as childs father in Thailand ( i can do this by going there with her next time she visits her family), but I'm not sure exactly how and if the child needs to be over a certain age?"

At age 7 or older, you can be legitimized as father at the local amphor-district office. You need the birth certificate, you and your passport, the child and the mother to be present. Child and mother shall confirm that you are the father. Photo copies of documents might also be needed, check with the office about what they wish.

 

You will receive a Khor.Rohr.11, Registration of Child Legitimacy.

 

If the child is under the age of seven, you'll need a DNA-test and family court order.

 

 

"b) ensure I am allowed shared custody of the child in Thailand (this is an extra step or it becomes automatic with the legitimization?)"

To my knowledge you might need a statement from the family court to prove that, I'm not sure here. I had no problems with being responsible parent my daughter (not married) as father for school, bank etc.

 

 

"c) have the ability to take my child outside of Thailand on her summer holidays (subject to prior access agreement with her mom)"

While a child is minor (in principle under 20 years of age), you'll need a permission from the mother to take your daughter out of Thailand. It's a simple procedure at the amphor-office, but mom need to be present and accept. You can see an example of my permission here...

However, I has never been in need of showing it at immigration when leaving Thailand. My daughter shares my family name. The immigration officer asked my daughter some questions in Thai, I never asked about what.

 

"d) ensure that my ex does put her (my) house and land into our child's name at the appropriate age. I am assuming a pre-agreement of some sort?"

"7. Things are relatively amicable between us currently. My ex has promised to give the house and land that I paid for to my daughter (when she turns 18)."

Legal age in Thailand is 20 years. However, a minor can own property before reaching legal age. so, land and house – if house is not registered separate in for example your name as owner, it just follows the land title deed – can be transferred to your daughter's name. There is no gift tax if the value is under a certain amount – from memory it is 20 million baht – but you might need to pay transfer fee and stamps at Land Office when transferring land. There has been reduction of fee when transferring land to children, but it might have been temporary.

 

Please note, that the land must be of higher deed title, like Nor Sor 3 or Nor Sor 4 (Chanote), to be transferred by the Land Office. If it's low title village land, it can not just only be transferred within family heirs, but the person must also be resident and/or use the land accordingly, for example farming.

[MangoKorat]

On 7/16/2024 at 2:42 AM, BritManToo said:

And I'll repeat ........

Why not put the house in the child's name now.

Well he could and that might also test his ex's intentions because she will probably know that she can't try to get it back or any other type of skullduggery. I believe such a transfer can be made but as far as I know, once its in a minor's name, until the age or majority, a court order has to be obtained to sell it or for any other type of transaction regarding the land.

[stupidfarang]

On 7/16/2024 at 6:28 PM, JimmyB81 said:

Thanks all for the helpful advise so far.

 

To clear something up - my ex does consider herself a morally 'good person' and for the most part she is. The abuse I spoke about was very very subtle, and I didn't even notice until I reached out to someone. She herself had a very abusive mother and that has leaked out into her relationships, as tends to happen. 

 

The thing I don't trust about her is her word. Many times things were said that she later denied ever saying and pivoted to something else to suit her circumstances at the time. But I do believe she would honour any agreement we made, even if it was not 100% watertight in Thailand. 

 

Before she became pregnant, we had decided (or she had decided with my approval) that our child(ren) would grow up in her village in Thailand. So I feel I should keep my word on this. 

But I do understand the argument for me doing what is best for the child and not letting her take her there to live. That is something I am also considering. I do want to do what is best for my daughter. I have a few years until it happens anyway. For now, I won't be giving my approval, but I just wanted to put any safeguards/measures in place that are needed to ensure I am recognized as legitimate father there if/when she moves. I thought I could still be recognized as the legal father even outside marriage, as long as the mother agreed to it?

 

About the house - it's not that big a deal as deciding where my daughter grows up, as stupidfarang pointed out. It's more of a 'nice to have' from my pov, because I did shell out mostly all my savings to build it and would like to be able to ensure it goes to my daughter, and not my ex's other kids (now adults) or a new spouse. 

 

 

As I said before, if you are not legally married then you are not recognised by Thai law! You have NO legal rights under Thai law if not married. If you are married under UK law, you will need to get legal advice from a lawyer in thailand on if the thai legal system recognises UK law.

 

As for what we all think about our partners/wife or ex partner/wife, when it comes down to what they want or you want then all "good behavour and sometimes morals go out the window.

 

[Confuscious]

On 7/17/2024 at 2:11 PM, john donson said:

ask for a usufruct, in your name, for life, on the house, cost a few hundreds baht

 

do it while the child is in UK, as it is not involved

 

she cannot sell the land or house without your permission

 

might be the best few thousands baht you spend, on a lawyer, just for this, if land department does not want to do it, but it is your legal right and law but we know how corrupt land departments are

 

look up  :  usufruct thailand

m

thank me later, looooooooooooooooool

 

My neighbour might like to have a conversation with you about your "Usefruct" dream.

He took an usefruct in the land and the house of his ex-wife.
A few years later, he noticed that the land and house was given to the mother of his ex-wife (name on the chanotte was changed).
Thus invalidating his usefruct.
He went to his lawyer and got the answer that his only solution was to start a court case against his ex-wife and have the mother removed as the owner of the land and the house.
But this could last years and not always with the outcome he desired (+ the cost for lawyer and court).

It is forbidden to drive to red crossing light, but if you do and you cause an accident, it depends from many factors for the outcome.
TIT

[Confuscious]

On 7/17/2024 at 3:33 PM, khunPer said:

Legal age in Thailand is 20 years. However, a minor can own property before reaching legal age. so, land and house – if house is not registered separate in for example your name as owner, it just follows the land title deed – can be transferred to your daughter's name. There is no gift tax if the value is under a certain amount – from memory it is 20 million baht – but you might need to pay transfer fee and stamps at Land Office when transferring land. There has been reduction of fee when transferring land to children, but it might have been temporary.

 

The mother owns everything that a child UNDER the legal age owns unless you have a court order.
The mother is FREE to sell of rent all propierty from the child until he/she reach the legal age.
Take care of the advices on the internet.

[khunPer]

26 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

 

The mother owns everything that a child UNDER the legal age owns unless you have a court order.
The mother is FREE to sell of rent all propierty from the child until he/she reach the legal age.
Take care of the advices on the internet.

No, if a property is registered to a minor it cannot be sold or transferred. The mother can however be guardian  – and so can a father – but she would have an extremely have time to tranfer a property.

[khunPer]

34 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

 

My neighbour might like to have a conversation with you about your "Usefruct" dream.

He took an usefruct in the land and the house of his ex-wife.
A few years later, he noticed that the land and house was given to the mother of his ex-wife (name on the chanotte was changed).
Thus invalidating his usefruct.
He went to his lawyer and got the answer that his only solution was to start a court case against his ex-wife and have the mother removed as the owner of the land and the house.
But this could last years and not always with the outcome he desired (+ the cost for lawyer and court).

It is forbidden to drive to red crossing light, but if you do and you cause an accident, it depends from many factors for the outcome.
TIT

"Thus invalidating his usefruct."
Not really, a property with usufruct can be sold and transferred, but the usufruct stays in place, as it is registered on the title deed.