Expats angry at huge concessions in latest Thai visa announcements

[webfact]

There are many ambiguities concerning the latest visa options.

 

By Barry Kenyon

Longstay expats with expensive visas say the new 60 days visa-exempt policy and the 180 days Destination Thailand Visa have made the Elite visa and the annual extensions of stay for retirement and marriage worthless. Geoffrey Fisher, a Brit who recently paid 900,000 baht (about 20,000 UK pounds) for the five year Elite visa said he had wasted his money as more or less anyone can now stay in Thailand almost indefinitely for a paltry sum.

The disenchanted argue that the 60 days visa-exempt can evidently be extended at local immigration for 30 days more followed by a border run to start the whole process again. Some immigration officers at Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi airport have allegedly told new arrivals they can now do as many border runs as they like. Separately, the five years and multi-entry Destination Thailand Visa (DTV) offers 180 days on entry for 10,000 baht (around 200 UK pounds) plus the chance to extend for a further 180 days. The process can then be repeated by briefly leaving the country.

 

American expat Dan Silverman, who holds a yearly extension based on retirement, said, “It’s just ridiculous. I have to keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, obtain medical insurance, face ever-changing regulations and regularly report my Thai address throughout the year, or be fined.” He added, “And for what, when you can come and go as you please with the new visas?” Views such as this are currently being voiced widely on social media as expats digest the latest visa announcement.

 

Full story: PATTAYA MAIL 2024-07-20

 

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[lapamita]

Quote

 

I never understand People buying Elite cards.

I am over 30 Years here , and since 5 Years only half of the year ,bcs more easy living and better clima in other country.

Everchanging rules , I had Investment Visa based on  3mb  about 20 years ago, and under Taxsim , rules get changed , even it was Grandfatherd . 3mb must than stay in Goverment bank at 0% ( 0%policy of intrest for foreigner at this time) what was bringing an intrest loss per anum of aprox 200,000 thb ( local intrests at 6-7% at this time) , or the cost of visa to 200.000 ,+++

than i get the visa for 20k special from bkk immigration , and when thats not possible later ,i was travel to philippines and send passport to honorary conulate receiving a multi 1 year non b /o ( not illegal because staying outside thailand during visa aplication), and the story goes on , when this not possible more  with boarderruns and various visas.

I am even not want stay in thai more the whole year , but that i come back in June here ..get only 30 day stamp, gone 10 day abroad , 2 days longer because of the 60 days start 15.7  ...and what i received at 13h on 15.07  at the swampi airport only 30 days AMAZING THALAND, i go back overseas on 20.8 wiath 7 day overstay

 

and thats one or the reasons , i left thailand , ever changing rules, senseless anouncment.

 

PS  I dont like India , but 2 times a year i there for 3,4 days to some reason ,  but one thing they issue  a 5 year Tourist Visa valid for up to 180 days per year for 80 USD , i ts easy and 1 stamp in passport for 5 years.   ..so and that make really sense , compare to all the s**** thais making

 

[Tropicalevo]

20 minutes ago, webfact said:

face ever-changing regulations and regularly report my Thai address throughout the year, or be fined.” He added, “And for what, when you can come and go as you please with the new visas?

I am not sure that the wingers are correct.

 

Where does it specifically say the the new visas do not have to do the 90 day reports and TM 30's?

Also, some new visas have to do border bounces - every 90 days! Personally, I would avoid those like the plague.

The complete article also mentions that unlimited 'bounces' is not a confirmed fact.

How long will these new visas be in place?

 

Usual Thai trick of announcing something , seeing how the public responds and then introducing the rules later (or backtracking).

[sungod]

Nothing is stopping whingers like Dan Silverman to ditch his current visa and opt for the new options.

 

 

[JeffersLos]

So, what's the deal in layman's terms, for those doing annual retirement extensions?

 

Instead of keeping 800,000THB in the bank here (or using an income method), you get a visa for 10,000 that lasts 5 years, but you leave the country every 180 days?

 

Edited July 20 by JeffersLos

[JeffersLos]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

he five years and multi-entry Destination Thailand Visa (DTV) offers 180 days on entry for 10,000 baht (around 200 UK pounds) plus the chance to extend for a further 180 days. The process can then be repeated by briefly leaving the country.

 

The 10,000THB payment is one time only, that gives you a 5 year visa with border runs every 180 days? Or you have to pay 10,000THB every entry?

 

If it is a one time fee of 10,000THB, and all you need to do is do a border bounce twice a year, it sounds like a much better deal than keeping 800,000THB locked in a Thai bank account etc.

[racket]

The Elite Visas can be a total waste if you are not planning to stay for a very long time. For the same amount of money, you could open a small business or invest in an already established company and stay in Thailand long-term. The cost of the 5-year Elite Visa increased from 500,000 baht to 900,000 baht after COVID, with only minor policy changes and additional perks. Moreover, the Elite Visa does not offer a path to permanent residency or citizenship, which means you'll need to continue renewing it or find other solutions for long-term stay. With limited benefits compared to other long-term visa options, it seems like a poor investment short-term. 

 

Extending the visa-exempt entry was a wise move for Thailand, especially given Malaysia's 90-day visa exemption for tourists from many countries. This change was anticipated, as the new Thai government, under Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, has shown a stronger commitment to boosting tourism and foreign investment compared to the previous administration led by General Prayuth Chan-o-cha. The new government’s policies are aimed at revitalizing the tourism sector, which had suffered during the COVID-19 pandemic, and attracting more international visitors and investors to stimulate economic growth.

 

Additionally, what this elite visa holder may not mention is that the Elite Visa offers the possibility of extending for up to 6 years initially. By paying an additional 400,000 baht before the initial period expires, he can extend the visa for another 10 years, making it a total of 16 years. This makes the Elite Visa a compelling option for long-term residents. In contrast, the Thailand Elite Visa provides various benefits like expedited immigration services, access to a concierge service, and no need for annual visa renewals, which can be cumbersome with other visa types. Both the Digital Nomad Visa (DTL) and retirement visas come with their own set of complications, such as requirements for income verification or ongoing compliance with specific regulations. Therefore, the Elite Visa offers a premium solution that simplifies the long-term stay in Thailand, avoiding many of the common obstacles associated with general visa options.

 

If he stays on the elite visa program for 16 years, he’ll end up paying just 6,770 baht per month, which is quite reasonable compared to other long-term residency options..

Edited July 20 by racket

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

“And for what, when you can come and go as you please with the new visas?”

Because that ones who come and leave bring this broke country more money. If this is not a message that you are not desired here, I don't know what is.

[Mr Meeseeks]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Longstay expats with expensive visas say the new 60 days visa-exempt policy and the 180 days Destination Thailand Visa have made the Elite visa <snip> worthless.

 

Well, you were warned. Repeatedly.

 

Caveat emptor. 

[G_Money]

One always has the option of staying home or going elsewhere.

[Mr Meeseeks]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

American expat Dan Silverman, who holds a yearly extension based on retirement, said, “It’s just ridiculous. I have to keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, obtain medical insurance, face ever-changing regulations and regularly report my Thai address throughout the year, or be fined.” He added, “And for what, when you can come and go as you please with the new visas?”

 

A Non-Immigrant visa allows you to open bank accounts, obtain a driving licence and other privileges that the 60 day stamps and DTV don't support.

 

Also, you don't qualify for the DTV, because you are a retiree, and that is not a category that it supports.

[Robert Paulson]

To me a strange part about border runs is, why would immigration effectively be easier for someone who just so happens to live closer to a border? It makes no sense. I guess they don’t care about it not making sense

[Celsius]

1 minute ago, G_Money said:

One always has the option of staying home or going elsewhere.

 

Or take his 800k and do the same as people he is complaining about. I am thinking about it.

[mfd101]

Thais love complexity.

 

Most 'changes' or 'reforms' are add-ons, not replacements.

[sqwakvfr]

2 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

To me a strange part about border runs is, why would immigration effectively be easier for someone who just so happens to live closer to a border? It makes no sense. I guess they don’t care about it not making sense

It's almost like the government encouraging border runs? With a 60 day exempt + 30 extension and a boarder and exempt + 30 that is almost 6 months withou a proper visa.  This could be just another case of "do first and think later".  

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, sqwakvfr said:

It's almost like the government encouraging border runs? With a 60 day exempt + 30 extension and a boarder and exempt + 30 that is almost 6 months withou a proper visa.  This could be just another case of "do first and think later".  

Idk. Maybe yeah. I don’t have a clear understanding of the new rules. I’m simply constantly astounded they don’t make things easier for people MARRIED TO THAI CITIZENS. This seems rather no brainer territory to me. But no they actually make it more difficult, eg if you look at some of the stufff they are doing with non o at savanakhette… all making things more difficult. 

Edited July 20 by Robert Paulson

[G_Money]

5 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Or take his 800k and do the same as people he is complaining about. I am thinking about it.

That is an option.

 

I will continue to transfer the required 65k or more every month to meet the needs for my retirement extension until I decide I’ve had enough of the Land of Smiles.

 

Don’t burn one’s bridges.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

I am not sure that the wingers are correct.

 

Where does it specifically say the the new visas do not have to do the 90 day reports and TM 30's?

Also, some new visas have to do border bounces - every 90 days! Personally, I would avoid those like the plague.

The complete article also mentions that unlimited 'bounces' is not a confirmed fact.

How long will these new visas be in place?

 

Usual Thai trick of announcing something , seeing how the public responds and then introducing the rules later (or backtracking).

If you don't extend DTV in country and just do border runs for a new 180 you would never under current enforcement have to do a TM30* or TM47 whilst living here for 5 years. So, those of us on extensions have to deal with "retentive" address confirmations via TM30 and 90 day reports, while the DTV people fly under the radar and Immigration may not know where they are.

 

In an interview a senior IO said that the reason for TM30 enforcement was that it was embarrassing when they could not find people when requested by foreign police forces or when a tourist hadn't posted on Facebook for 48 hours [and for some reason people back home assumed they had been murdered].

 

*Landlord might file TM30.

Edited July 20 by mokwit

[Jingthing]

On retirement status with an O base.

I'm happy when things are made easier for all tourists and expats.

I'm on their side not immigration coppers side.

I have no resentment. 

It's mean spirited to have resentment.

Also doing border runs is a pain and more liberal policies can and probably will be changed back on a dime. 

Retirees that love visa runs for life go to flippin' Vietnam why dontcha?

Edited July 20 by Jingthing

[steve187]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

If you don't extend DTV in country and just do border runs for a new 180 you would never under current enforcement have to do a TM30* or TM47 whilst living here for 5 years. So, those of us on extensions have to deal with "retentive" address confirmations via TM30 and 90 day reports, while the DTV people fly under the radar and Immigration may not know where they are.

 

In an interview a senior IO said that the reason for TM30 enforcement was that it was embarrassing when they could not find people when requested by foreign police forces or when a tourist hadn't posted on Facebook for 48 hours and for some reason people back home assumed they had been murdered.

 

*Landlord might file TM30.

i haven't read up on DTV, are you saying people on one are exempt from tm30 and tm47, and also make the owner where you live, exempt from tm30

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, steve187 said:

i haven't read up on DTV, are you saying people on one are exempt from tm30 and tm47, and also make the owner where you live, exempt from tm30

I'm saying how and where will they enforce TM30 and 90 day. They enforce it currently when people go for an extension, whether 1 year or 30 day VE, but not at borders entering and leaving so DTV people fall through the TM30/47 reporting enforcement under current enforcement - can stay 5 years and Immigration will never know where they are. Immigration enforce TM30/47 on US like it is important, but hardly enforce it on Landlords.

Edited July 20 by mokwit

[jippytum]

I think in recent times the advantages of  holding a retirement extension has diminished compared to the promotion of easy visa on entry to allcomers

[chuang]

If you can't beat them join them....what's the problem....

[spidermike007]

Anyone investing any money here has to be conscious of the fact that these administrations are very inconsistent with policy, and policy is not based on conviction or vision, but rather on today's politics and the way the wind is blowing.

 

If you look at the ganja decriminalization and the billions that have been invested in the industry, and then the turnaround and absolute betrayal on the part of the government, that's just another glaring example of how undependable these goons are. 

[teutonian]

23 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I'm saying how and where will they enforce TM30 and 90 day. They enforce it currently when people go for an extension, whether 1 year or 30 day VE, but not at borders entering and leaving so DTV people fall through the TM30/47 reporting enforcement under current enforcement - can stay 5 years and Immigration will never know where they are. Immigration enforce TM30/47 on US like it is important, but hardly enforce it on Landlords.

It’s not a landlord job to file TM30. It’s the housemaster job and that happens to be the one with the lease in hand. 

[Nickcage49]

Stop whining. If you don't like it then don't renew your visa and go with the 60 or 180 days. 

 

I'm on a retirement visa and it's not so expensive that it's worth the hassle of constantly renewing and going on border runs.

 

One thing, though, is that by doing this, they will increase the number of undesirables here, which they said they were trying to reduce.

 

If it's that easy to stay here, many more criminals will take advantage of the new rules. Not that criminals follow the rules anyway.

 

There are so many cheap charlies here, they'd rather go through a bunch of trouble than pay a few thousand baht for something.

[Neeranam]

38 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Idk. Maybe yeah. I don’t have a clear understanding of the new rules. I’m simply constantly astounded they don’t make things easier for people MARRIED TO THAI CITIZENS. This seems rather no brainer territory to me. But no they actually make it more difficult, eg if you look at some of the stufff they are doing with non o at savanakhette… all making things more difficult. 

They are making things easier. 

If married to a Thai citizen, you can become a citizen yourself.

It used to be hard and take many years, often with bribery and had to learn Thai fluently. 

When I did it, it cost me 5,000 baht, didn't need to speak Thai, and only had to be working for 3 years with a salary of 40k baht a month. Easier than many other countries.

 

[rocketboy2]

Thailand moving the goal post after getting your money. that's unusual. 

Thailand, the Asian Hub of the Flip flop. 

 

[Guderian]

It sounds attractive to just take the 800K Baht from your bank account and start using the DTV visa instead, but this is brand new and how long would you want to bet on it being around for? The Non-Imm O with retirement or marriage extensions has been around forever, so for all the cost and inconvenience you at least have some reassurance that the ever-morphing Thai government won't suddenly pull the plug on it.

[tomazbodner]

45 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

It's almost like the government encouraging border runs? With a 60 day exempt + 30 extension and a boarder and exempt + 30 that is almost 6 months withou a proper visa.  This could be just another case of "do first and think later".  

Or they could crack down on border runs...