Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[Presnock]

12 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Again, this is the world of the handful of Farangs who have been paying Thai income tax in past years.

 

For the rest of us, even if we wanted to file a tax return, just obtaining a tax ID could be impossible. 

 

For most of us, discussions about tax rates and DTAs are moot.

I haven't paid any Thai income tax ever and really don't plan on it due to DTA and LTR but being TIT, who knows if the current scheme will continue once all the problems start with the Tha Revenue Dept come 2025 and tax form times for remittances  nor if the other even more popular scheme could even pass the parliament if they even floor the bill.  Now is not the time to panic as some folks seem to be doing and in

probably most cases none of this will really affect most of the expats.  Unless the revenue dept does change the current laws on obtaining a tax ID and filing with no assessable income then I foresee nothing to do at all for me as I have to file my US taxes which I do along with the FBAR both done in January every year.  No complaints from me there nor here really as I still just love life in Thailand.

 

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You think TRD has the resources to parse all remittances into Thailand to determine assessable income?

The resources are there to monitor remittances for large transactions. What is lacking is motivation to do so.

 

This year, I have been paying for large transactions in Thailand with my US credit card. Do you think that TRD is monitoring credit card transactions?

[Confuscious]

On 9/8/2024 at 4:30 AM, Mike Teavee said:

CRS (Common Reporting Standard) means they already have that information. 

 

 

I already posted the proof of this a while ago.
I received a while ago a letter from my bank saying that they had send information of my account (total funds, source of the funds, etc.) to Thailand as asked by international rights.
Countdown to leave this <deleted>ty country since then.

[Danderman123]

7 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I haven't paid any Thai income tax ever and really don't plan on it due to DTA and LTR but being TIT, who knows if the current scheme will continue once all the problems start with the Tha Revenue Dept come 2025 and tax form times for remittances  nor if the other even more popular scheme could even pass the parliament if they even floor the bill.  Now is not the time to panic as some folks seem to be doing and in

probably most cases none of this will really affect most of the expats.  Unless the revenue dept does change the current laws on obtaining a tax ID and filing with no assessable income then I foresee nothing to do at all for me as I have to file my US taxes which I do along with the FBAR both done in January every year.  No complaints from me there nor here really as I still just love life in Thailand.

 

This is Thailand.

 

I'll wait for money to be distributed to the Thai people via the Digital Wallet before I worry about filing a tax return.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Confuscious said:

I already posted the proof of this a while ago.
I received a while ago a letter from my bank saying that they had send information of my account (total funds, source of the funds, etc.) to Thailand as asked by international rights.
Countdown to leave this <deleted>ty country since then.

What country was your bank account in?

 

How did Thailand locate your foreign bank account?

Edited September 9 by Danderman123

[Confuscious]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The resources are there to monitor remittances for large transactions. What is lacking is motivation to do so.

 

This year, I have been paying for large transactions in Thailand with my US credit card. Do you think that TRD is monitoring credit card transactions?

Transactions by Credit Card, and the country of transactions are listed in the overview of your bank documents send to Thailand.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, Metapod said:

a DTA doesn't absolve you from filing a tax filing in the secondary location.

 

You will have to file in both Australia and Thailand. Even if you owe nothing in Thailand, that in itself is a huge pain in the ass. The Thailand tax calendar starts Jan 1st, the Australian tax calendar starts July 1st. That creates complexity. Then factor in getting documents translated into Thai and then getting those documents certified. Then hiring tax accountants in two countries to handle both submissions. 

 

Then discussing DTA itself, you need to look at the DTA for each category. Some will give exclusive taxing rights to one jurisdiction, others are taxed in one first and then taxed in the other. For example, if you owe 30,000 in AU but 50,000 in Thailand, you would have to pay 50,000 in Thailand and then use a tax credit against the 30,000 in AU for your AU tax return after July.

 

The short answer is this <deleted> gets complicated at the very best, and costing you more at the worst.

I dont have to lodge a tax return in Australia because all I get is the Govt Pension - the vast majority of my Super Fund money was already taxed - sold the house etc and put it all in Super years ago (before they changed the rule and stopped that).  But I do because it is basically automatic - ATO already calculates it all - zero tax - I lodge it for the records.

 

I dont have to lodge a tax return in Thailand because I have no income tax to pay - that is what TRD views is OK to do, as advised to me by a tax lawyer - and that is why 30+ million Thais dont lodge a tax return (no taxes to pay). 

 

If you want to lodge a Thai tax return, then you go right ahead - not what I would recommend though.

 

[JimGant]

22 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

If Thailand imposes a worldwide income tax, Farangs will depart in droves.

Why? As an upper middle class Yank, whose only capital gains are within my IRA's (and thus taxable as ordinary income) -- my total income tax paid between Thailand and the US won't change one iota. Yes, I'll now have to file a Thai tax return, and pay taxes on that income designated by the DTA. But my US tax return will have a one-for-one reduction in taxation via the tax credits from my Thai taxation. Thus, my total tax bill between the two countries will be the same as before Thailand goes to worldwide taxation.

 

I mentioned capital gains, because that is the on spot where Yanks can be hurt, since Thailand's taxes on such will exceed by a lot US taxes on long term cap gains. So, yeah, maybe some Yanks, living off cap gains, will feel the pain. Just wonder how many of those types are here in Thailand.....

[Confuscious]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

What country was your bank account in?

 

How did Thailand locate your foreign bank account?

My bank account is in Belgium.
The letter from Thailand was directed to the tax department in Belgium which disclosed my bank account and other financial benefits.

[TigerandDog]

8 hours ago, ryandb said:

I believe he is promoting his services for the most part

yes he is but he's also answering most of the questions we have with regards to the various DTA's, e.g.  I was advised by my tax accountant in Oz that my aussie aged pension was assessable and subject to taxation here in Thailand. As a result of viewing this video I now know that the advice received from my aussie tax accountant was wrong as Govt pensions from our home countries are assessable in Thailand but they are NOT taxable in Thailand, only private pensions are, and that seems to be the case with the DTA's mentioned in the video, viz USA, UK, Canada.. Australia & New Zealand. Of course there are differences with regards to private pensions, capital gains etc between the various DTA's and some workarounds are also mentioned in the video.

 

At the very least this video has provided far more accurate information than any other video or post that i've seen to date.

[1FinickyOne]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:35 PM, Pouatchee said:

i will only be visiting my better half 1-2 months a year...

less than 180 days so no tax liability?? 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, TigerandDog said:

yes he is but he's also answering most of the questions we have with regards to the various DTA's, e.g.  I was advised by my tax accountant in Oz that my aussie aged pension was assessable and subject to taxation here in Thailand. As a result of viewing this video I now know that the advice received from my aussie tax accountant was wrong as Govt pensions from our home countries are assessable in Thailand but they are NOT taxable in Thailand, only private pensions are, and that seems to be the case with the DTA's mentioned in the video, viz USA, UK, Canada.. Australia & New Zealand. Of course there are differences with regards to private pensions, capital gains etc between the various DTA's and some workarounds are also mentioned in the video.

 

At the very least this video has provided far more accurate information than any other video or post that i've seen to date.

There have been several reports over many months of home country tax advisors, especially in Oz, giving an incorrect interpretation of basic rules that were otherwise agreed and understood .

[1FinickyOne]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Just wonder how many of those types are here in Thailand.....

some, for sure

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The resources are there to monitor remittances for large transactions. What is lacking is motivation to do so.

 

This year, I have been paying for large transactions in Thailand with my US credit card. Do you think that TRD is monitoring credit card transactions?

IMO the TRD do not and cannot 'monitor' a USA credit card - the USA not a part of CRS.

 

Regarding large transactions IMO the only way TRD will 'monitor' is that each Thai bank will provide TRD with a list of all bank accounts with international receipts over a certain number (5 mill 10 mill who knows). Then TRD will have to (randomly?) go through those bank records and seek to match them up to tax returns. 

 

Where there is a large amount of money remitted and there is a tax return, TRD can (maybe) check the tax return and see if it looks like that money was declared. If not they will then have to decide if it was likely to be taxable income or not. And then maybe decide to send the person a letter requesting more information regarding those remittances.  The bank records do not differentiate between savings, income already taxed or not, or earnings already taxed or not - or indeed if the money was taxable income or not. 

 

Where there is a large amount of money remitted and there is no tax return, they can (maybe) decide if it was likely to be taxable income or not. And if they do then maybe they will send the person a letter requesting more information regarding those remittances, because the bank records do not differentiate between savings, income already taxed or not, or earnings already taxed or not.

 

Plus of course they have other avenues and reasons why TRD might send someone a 'please explain' - and that includes being reported by some Thai because they dont like you, or maybe you a ditched GF who wants to cause you trouble, or whatever reason that might exist - yet another reason to stay quiet and keep the head down.  If/when you get that letter, or maybe a call, then there are some obvious steps - give them the information because you are 'all good' - or take off immediately because you are 'not all good' - or go see a tax lawyer and get things ready to make sure you are 'all good'. 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO the TRD do not and cannot 'monitor' a USA credit card - the USA not a part of CRS.

 

Regarding large transactions IMO the only way TRD will 'monitor' is that each Thai bank will provide TRD with a list of all bank accounts with international receipts over a certain number (5 mill 10 mill who knows). Then TRD will have to (randomly?) go through those bank records and seek to match them up to tax returns. 

 

Where there is a large amount of money remitted and there is a tax return, TRD can (maybe) check the tax return and see if it looks like that money was declared. If not they will then have to decide if it was likely to be taxable income or not. And then maybe decide to send the person a letter requesting more information regarding those remittances.  The bank records do not differentiate between savings, income already taxed or not, or earnings already taxed or not - or indeed if the money was taxable income or not. 

 

Where there is a large amount of money remitted and there is no tax return, they can (maybe) decide if it was likely to be taxable income or not. And if they do then maybe they will send the person a letter requesting more information regarding those remittances, because the bank records do not differentiate between savings, income already taxed or not, or earnings already taxed or not.

 

Plus of course they have other avenues and reasons why TRD might send someone a 'please explain' - and that includes being reported by some Thai because they dont like you, or maybe you a ditched GF who wants to cause you trouble, or whatever reason that might exist - yet another reason to stay quiet and keep the head down.  If/when you get that letter, or maybe a call, then there are some obvious steps - give them the information because you are 'all good' - or take off immediately because you are 'not all good' - or go see a tax lawyer and get things ready to make sure you are 'all good'. 

Every foreign currency transaction, be it cash or credit, goes through the central bank of the countries whose currencies are involved in the transaction. That means BOT and the US Fed, for example, see every transaction involving USD/THB. It has to be that way in order for countries to manage their respective currency. That is NOT to say that those central banks see the transactions at the detail level, nor do they see them in real time. But to suggest that the US cannot monitor a US credit card usage overseas is completely wrong. 

[JimGant]

22 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Many won't file, due to ignorance and/or disbelief that this will be enforced.

 

When they are called into TRD, they are going to be at the mercy of Somchai, and that will not end well.

Why would they be called into TRD? Is TRD going to try and identify farangs living here over 180 days per year? And if identified, that their mediocre annual remittances indicate assessable income --- rather than, in most cases, nonassessable gov't pensions, or social security (and if Canadian, private pensions)? Come on. Even TRD can do cost/benefit analyses.

[redwood1]

You guys are completely mad if you think Thailand has a snowballs chance in hell to have any hope whatsoever to get this highly highly complex  tax worked out with expats whos financial situation is very individualized and who all come from different countries and speak different languages....And whos countries all have different DTAs....

 

Its a bloody joke I tell you.....No way, no how, is it going to happen..

 

And it took them 6 years to get the online 90 day reports to work...lol.......How hard could that have been?

 

 

Edited September 9 by redwood1

[Andrew65]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

and these were only caught in public speeches - imagine his private talks!

Bending the needle on the BS-O-Meter!😁

[geisha]

11 hours ago, kuzmabruk said:

This new tax is on all tax residents of Thailand.   This hurts the rich Thais with trillions of baht offshore that have been tax free, much more than you. 

Most hidden money offshore is what it says,hidden. 

[Danderman123]

39 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

My bank account is in Belgium.
The letter from Thailand was directed to the tax department in Belgium which disclosed my bank account and other financial benefits.

Was this in regards to your visa application?

 

I can't think of any other reason why Thailand would be interested in your Belgian bank account.

[Danderman123]

21 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Why would they be called into TRD? Is TRD going to try and identify farangs living here over 180 days per year? And if identified, that their mediocre annual remittances indicate assessable income --- rather than, in most cases, nonassessable gov't pensions, or social security (and if Canadian, private pensions)? Come on. Even TRD can do cost/benefit analyses.

You are correct.

 

There is not much chance that TRD is going to do much to investigate the 100s of 1000s of Farang pensioners living in the village.

[Jesse123]

On the limited information so far, If resident and paying tax in a country without a DTR the tax paid in the home country is  disregarded. Most countries have a form of tax relief to deal with this - say 3/4 of the overseas tax is an allowable deduction - but this is unlikely to  be addressed in Thailand when something as simple as taxing gains and not allowing losses is currently the practice.

So for the foreseeable future I will spend less than 180 days in Thailand and my Partner can stay with me for 180 days in my Country - so not many days for me to spend elsewhere. I get free medical care in my home Country but would have to pay in Thailand. Cannot see another option until legislation is passed. At least my Country does not have a TIEA (exchange of information arrangement) with Thailand.

[Dan SG]

7 hours ago, wmlc said:

I am so tired of this scare mongering. Does everyone see what is going on here? Post a story about tax, get a ton of unhappy expats moaning and then nothing happens. No enforcement. Get on with it already. 

 

The only thing here that matters is enforcement. No matter what the tax law is or is going to be, if the Thai government does nothing to enforce it, they can keep whistling dixie for all I care. 

 

The 180 day rule has never been enforced. It has always been a law. Then, in January 2024, they changed what is included in accessible income and everyone started moaning, but guess what, they still have n to announced any enforcement guidelines. For example, let's just say immigration were asked to start asking for proof personal income tax being filed in Thailand for qualified tax residents, something like that would need time to pass and implement. No word yet right? its almost December. 

 

Bullocks.

 

 

While things are generally behind the times, tax authorities are generally getting access to big data.  They will be able to run algorithms that see immigration records and transfers in and out of the country, spending patterns etc (especially looking forward to digital ledgers / currencies) and will be easy for them to track all this.  

[xtrnuno41]

[redwood1]

2 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

 

Well this is great.....Most new condos cost about 5 million baht.......So your 5 million baht condo now costs.......8.5 million baht........

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Well this is great.....Most new condos cost about 5 million baht.......So your 5 million baht condo now costs.......8.5 million baht........

Rubbish! It still costs  5 million, as a long as non-assessable income is remitted for the purchase.

[JimGant]

9 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

My Scenario with my wife making close to the 25% tax rate, means that if I sent over B1 Million here, it would be taxed at about 25%.

Why file jointly, adding your income to the wife's 25% tax rate? File singly, and your numbers will be a lot better.

[JimGant]

9 hours ago, mdr224 said:

How many thai people pay taxes? Not many i imagine

Many because -- their assessable income doesn't reach the threshold for becoming taxable income.

[hannoman]

I do not see any problem with this new law. Paying tax to Thailand for stays over 180 days is not the same as double taxation. To avoid any mistakes with the documents (Thai language) I chose to use a lawyer. (cost me 7 000 thb.)

She arranged a tax card and bankstatements. She sent all the necessary documents for me to the authorities.

In return 10 days later I received 2 documents.

1) "Income Tax Payment Certificate" R.O.21 and 2) "Certificate of Residence" R.O.22.

Next, I paid my tax to Thailand. And sent R.O.21 & R.O.22 to the tax authorities in my home country.

Which then registered my new information. Long story short, I got back the difference between paid taxes in Thailand and my home country about 6 months later.

The long processing time is my only point of complaint!! (I ended up with approx + THB 161.000.)

 

Edited September 9 by hannoman
correction

[ChasingTheSun]

Taxing worldwide income would be a game changer for all wealthy expats(most people not relying on a pension) currently residing in Thailand.

 

Not being taxed on worldwide income is really the main benefit of Thailand for wealthy retired people, or those who have offshore business income,  whom have a choice to live almost anywhere in the world.

 

If enacted, this law would hit the Thai real estate market fairly hard as it makes the country far less attractive compared to Southern Europe and a number of other countries.

 

TRD better think twice before they scare away a huge amount of foreigner investment and consumption.