Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[chrisbangkok]

20 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

So they want us to do 90 day reports, do TM30's, do TM6's, do yearly extensions, do reentry permits, pay farang fees at parks, get COR's for drivers licenses, not allow us to own property, and in the news recently they want to create a farang tax on buying and selling real estate? And now they want to tax us on our WorldWide income, offering nothing in return for that money?! 

 

Give us land ownership, Permanent Residency, no more TM47/TM30/COR's/TM6/Etc., make farang pricing illegal, treat us like tax paying Thai citizens and then maybe being taxed on WorldWide income might make sense.

Do they need us ? Maybe they'd like to clear us out and this is one sure way to thin out non tourists etc 🤔 

 

[Jonathan Swift]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:16 AM, Pouatchee said:

happy days... not

so now the nightmare begins

 

 

so now they will have access to our home records... big brother... reallyyyy. 

 

double taxation? these matters really need to be cleared up and imho double taxation is just plain wrong... hope tere will be provisions blocking this.

 

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!

They can't get our bank records without a subpoena or a warrant. Otherwise that is personal information that is password protected. So then what? Will they require copies of Bank statements? So open another account and keep very little in it. 

[kuzmabruk]

12 minutes ago, kuzmabruk said:

This new tax is on all tax residents of Thailand.   This hurts the rich Thais with trillions of baht offshore that have been tax free, much more than you. 

Also, Thailand, by royal decree of his majesty the King, offers tax exemption to all long term visa holders. Something you don’t see anywhere else in the world.  So for any foreigner who makes a decent income on their investments - there is no income tax. 

[Jonathan Swift]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:16 AM, Pouatchee said:

happy days... not

so now the nightmare begins

 

 

so now they will have access to our home records... big brother... reallyyyy. 

 

double taxation? these matters really need to be cleared up and imho double taxation is just plain wrong... hope tere will be provisions blocking this.

 

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!

Tea party time!

[Presnock]

6 hours ago, Lorry said:

 

You keep willfully confusing 2 things:

What a government can do - what it is interesting in doing. 

Thailand doesn't tax bargirls, I don't know why.

About taxation of foreigners, Srettha said: we couldn't do it, because we didn't have the information.  Now, with CRS, yes, we can.

Bar girls are not taxed here because they do NOT EXIST!  The govt has said they check regularly and there are none here!

[tandor]

On 9/8/2024 at 3:40 AM, david555 said:

So max, 6 month's lease contracts shall become a standard need requirements for condo rent for a big group of expats instead of the 1 year contracts .......

 

"Real estate's " / landlords , adapt to that or loose

Sub-lease for the absent time.

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, Tom100 said:

Correct. Only 11 million Thais paid tax in 2023, or 1 in 6.

Not true. Almost 12 million tax forms were filed, 4 million of those requested refunds so perhaps 6 or 7 million people paid tax. But the workforce is 38 million so around 30% of the workforce filed tax returns. Given that the low average wage in Thailand is close to the  threshold for paying tax, the number of tax returns may not be too far adrift. If Somchai earns 12k baht per month or 144k baht per year, he can deduct 60k for himself, 60k for his wife and 30k for his sprog, that means he doesn't really need to file.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2799906/tax-refunds-delayed-by-surge-in-fake-submissions

[Jonathan Swift]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:34 AM, NoDisplayName said:

It's bad enough I have to pay tax on interstellar/multi-dimensional income to Uncle Sam for life, but Thailand wants a cut also?

 

I ran the numbers.........I manage my finances to remain at the zero tax limit in the USA, which will result in $10,000 paid annually to Thailand.  All capital gains are taxed as normal income with no offset for capital losses.

 

I don't think so.  How do you say 'hello' in Khmer?

The elephant in the room is how are they supposed to know how much we make and how much we have in the bank? they can't get those records. All accounting and investment funds are private and password protected. Before that, how are they even going to know where to look? I don't think this will fly. Do they think we're going to voluntarily give them our income and bank information? They would have to sue us in US court, but they would have no legitimate cause of action. 

[chiang mai]

Just now, Jonathan Swift said:

The elephant in the room is how are they supposed to know how much we make and how much we have in the bank? they can't get those records. All accounting and investment funds are private and password protected. Before that, how are they even going to know where to look? I don't think this will fly. Do they think we're going to voluntarily give them our income and bank information? They would have to sue us in US court, but they would have no legitimate cause of action. 

The onus is on you to file accurately, as it is in any country. If you don't and they want you to prove what you've said to reasonable levels of satisfaction, you're not going anywhere until you do.

[tandor]

2 hours ago, Owiee said:

Yes but unfortunately the exchange rates are very poor 

well bring cash back each time + friends..then send a Thai to Money Exchange here.

[soalbundy]

19 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

That's right in the case of US SS pensions and pensions from US government, state or local government employment because the US has the sole right to tax this income in the DTA.  I am know about 401K.  If no specifically exempted in the DTA, it would be taxable in Thailand.

 

Unfortunately very few other farang countries negotiated to exempt state pensions in their DTAs like the US did.  You will find that nearly all exempt only pensions from government employment.  However, it is arguable whether foreign state pensions are taxable because the wording in Section 40 covering pensions specifies only pensions from employment. It doesn't specify pensions that are not from employment.  Perhaps they will argue that the UK state pension is indirectly from employment because yhou don't get it, if you haven't worked.  But other pensions like the Australian Superannuation cannot be regarded as pension from employment because it is now payable to slackers who have never worked a day in their lives.  I wonder, if they will amend the wording to cover all foreign pensions but I doubt it as they are very lazy thinkers and probably haven't got round to this year.

I asked the German tax office about taxation, they told me that my pension isn't taxed in Germany because they assume it would be taxed in Thailand, so I haven't paid tax anywhere for 20 years,....... now is pay day.

[Jonathan Swift]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Bar girls are not taxed here because they do NOT EXIST!  The govt has said they check regularly and there are none here!

I don't know what CRS means, but I don't see how they can get our bank or income information. That kind of thing is privacy protected. The only option is to require income and bank statements. On my mac it's pretty easy to chage numbers and text on a scanned document. The preview app will do it, a little cut and paste and adding some text, or you can use photoshop. I don't know about PC, but I will guess that they have something similar. 

[thailand49]

ByThe full article isnt there this is continue to be a proposal which has to be passed which hasn't. Those who wish still dont know or understand how to deal with countries that have Duel Taxation treaties.

This article also gives a false impression expat living here will generate Trillions which is false if there is Trillions it is from rich Thais who arent paying their offshore investments. 

When healthy ask Thaksin?🤑

[jwest10]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

The onus is on you to file accurately, as it is in any country. If you don't and they want you to prove what you've said to reasonable levels of satisfaction, you're not going anywhere until you do.

This is a draft and in any case  new forms in English ha ha are being printed later on this year but many and including me can not get a Tin number and even a pink card does not help.
Also been told so many times from my local Revenue I do not need to file and guess most of us are near or below all the allowances etc.
No one  frankly knows and the so-called experts do not either and been told to wait and see.

[tandor]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You mean that a "credit" is a loan?

 

So when the bargirl files her taxes, she can claim all those transfers from her Farang boyfriend are loans, not income.

so she would identify each deposit as F1, F2, F3 etc.

[Keller54]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:51 PM, Kinnock said:

Thailand can't tax its own people, so they want to tax foreigners.

 

Spot on. 

[phil2803]

Does the tax include Thai nationals earning income from overseas?

[proton]

6 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

That is not right. If the TRD has any suspicions, they can check your Thai bank accounts.

 

Wise does not show up as a foreign transfer on my account, nor the Mrs

[Jonathan Swift]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The onus is on you to file accurately, as it is in any country. If you don't and they want you to prove what you've said to reasonable levels of satisfaction, you're not going anywhere until you do.

Yeah, I thought of that. I can scan and modify documents, I'm pretty good at it, but I won't need to worry because all I get is social security which is not taxed. I can show a confirmation letter from Social Security as well as the deposits in my bank account if they want to see it. The way things are going I imagine they are going to see a lot of Social Security letters. But I don't claim to be an expert, I am speculating. 

[chiang mai]

Just now, phil2803 said:

Does the tax include Thai nationals earning income from overseas?

Yes of course, they are the primary target of the new legislation

[chiang mai]

Just now, Jonathan Swift said:

Yeah, I thought of that. I can scan and modify documents, I'm pretty good at it, but I won't need to worry because all I get is social security which is not taxed. I can show a confirmation letter from Social Security as well as the deposits in my bank account if they want to see it. The way things are going I imagine they are going to see a lot of Social Security letters. But I don't claim to be an expert, I am speculating. 

That's tax evasion, good luck with that!

 

CRS stands for Common Reporting Standards, it's an agreement entered into by a number of countries, including Thailand, to share personal financial data between governments.  Google it for more info.

[tandor]

13 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Not true. Almost 12 million tax forms were filed, 4 million of those requested refunds so perhaps 6 or 7 million people paid tax. But the workforce is 38 million so around 30% of the workforce filed tax returns. Given that the low average wage in Thailand is close to the  threshold for paying tax, the number of tax returns may not be too far adrift. If Somchai earns 12k baht per month or 144k baht per year, he can deduct 60k for himself, 60k for his wife and 30k for his sprog, that means he doesn't really need to file.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2799906/tax-refunds-delayed-by-surge-in-fake-submissions

+ 1st 150,000 is Tax Free.

[chiang mai]

Just now, tandor said:

+ 1st 150,000 is Tax Free.

Yes, plus that. So that means both Somachai and his wife can work and earn 24k a month and they don't have to file tax returns (well they should, but no tax would be due).

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Kenneth White said:

I wonder if the Thai government intends to tax Social Security from America. That would be considered a double tax. 

just how would they do that at they have an international agreement with the US (double taxation agreement) and would need to advise the US government 6 months in advance if they were going to cancel the DTA which indicates that Social Security and govt pension is taxable by the US government only unless the recipient is also a Thai native in some cases)

[Presnock]

46 minutes ago, sandrew33 said:

The Big Brother cross border information sharing was started by the US with FATCA, then the Common Reporting Standard for pretty much everyone else. It’s been around for years. 
 

This is Thailand simply adopting a law that’s common in most other jurisdictions. If you live in Thailand for tax law purposes then you pay tax on worldwide income. Thailand has many double tax agreements to avoid double taxation already. Of course if you are avoiding tax in your country of origin (I.e currently paying zero tax) a DTA won’t help you much 🙂 

 

The notion that you should pay tax in Thailand if you live in Thailand isn’t a terrible one but it will certainly cause some chaos over the next few years. 

Everyone must know by now, the OECD agreement in the summer of 2023 plus FATCA and CRS all came about not only to stop criminal money laundering but also to find those people who pay no taxes on their income to any country.  Yes while some folks plan to avoid paying any taxes on their income to any country by moving several times a year, that too is basically ILLEGAL and while one may get away with it for a while, eventually the countries around the world will either determine it is not worth chases these folks or they will amend their tax-resident laws and incorporate immigration into the package for expats.  If people had been paying their income taxes then maybe this new law would have been written in a different manner.  Just saying from this lifetime  tax paying American.

[jwest10]

On 9/8/2024 at 6:09 AM, mokwit said:

So what do we get in return for this greedy grab?  I see in uptick in airport departure tax collections.

I am British and certainly not proud and it seems the Americans and not being  nationalistic  or not at all racist and it seems the American ex-pats getting all the breaks on this taxation issue  yet the UK and other countries continue to fund all the wars they are involved in and billions upon billions every single day and not one penny for the 550K + frozen British pensioners!!!

[Expat Tom]

I'm done with Thailand. I have been here for 15 years. According to "transparency.org" Thailand ranks 101 on the world corruption index. This country has millions of wonder people but it is run by idiots. It is s kleptocracy. This stupid move will bite the Bangkok Buffoons in the butt. If the leaders here fail to realize that the are competing for expat dollars and that there are MANY MANY other options around the world then they are truly naive. How to they propose that they discover my overseas income...????

Truly ignorant.

[jwest10]

Where ccan I find the tax treaty for uk and Thailand and think did have it but misplaced it Thanks

 

[Presnock]

38 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

So how are they going to find the money? All bank accounts are password protected, and Thailand has no jurisdiction to enforce laws in the US. Nope.

That is why FATCA CSR and the OECD agreement was signed on by 138 countries - where each country agrees to exchange financial data on tax-residents...immigration will eventually fit into the equation too and this all came about due to folks not paying taxes on their income to any country.

[Presnock]

39 minutes ago, chrisbangkok said:

Do they need us ? Maybe they'd like to clear us out and this is one sure way to thin out non tourists etc 🤔 

 

go to the earlier link to thai examiner - they have a write-in poll about complaints of this new scheme for expats to provide their input.