Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[lordgrinz]

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You're getting into the weeds here.

 

Unless you are one of the few who do file Thai tax returns, all of this is theoretical. Try "proving" your tax status to Somchai at TRD who can't read English. 

 

Maybe you speak Thai fluently and have been filing for years, but for the rest of us, having TRD examine our tax return would be problematic.

 

Well after you have all the documents notarized, apostilled, and translated along with the MFA signing off on it.....you can then move forward, that should only take forever, and cost a small fortune, that's if it can even be done (which it can't).

[WDSmart]

If this becomes law, it will be most interesting to me to know if the same exemptions can be applied, like, for example, to your Social Security payments. 

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Well after you have all the documents notarized, apostilled, and translated along with the MFA signing off on it.....you can then move forward, that should only take forever, and cost a small fortune, that's if it can even be done (which it can't).

My point remains that a lot of these posts involve theoretical discussions, things that could happen if this weren't Thailand.

[RandolphGB]

I'm yet to see how the Thai revenue office will know about income from UK assets paid to a UK bank account. 

[anrcaccount]

22 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

The rule is, never preemptively try to comply with laws unless you need to. This is how Thai people operate too and normal here.

 

Very well said.

 

This is why the incessant speculation, what ifs and encouraging people to "prepare", simply causes more harm and stress than if people just waited. 

 

These threads and the posters who obsessively discuss each nuance, thinking they are easing peoples minds and being helpful, are in fact being the exact opposite!

 

 

[kidneyw]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:26 PM, CallumWK said:

Time to empty my Thai bank accounts

I thought that was what wives were for.

[lordgrinz]

5 hours ago, anchadian said:

Revenue Department preparing legislation as new Expat tax regime may link visas and tax returns

 

Thailand’s Revenue Department drafts global tax legislation. It may link visa issuance to tax returns soon. Expats staying over 180 days must file by March 2025, impacting residency decisions. It also raises concerns about tax treaty interpretations and compliance.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/09/08/revenue-department-preparing-legislation-as-new-expat-tax-regime-may-link-visas-and-tax-returns/

 

Yeah, I am already waiting to hear the IO during my February extension process, ask me "So how are you funding your stay here, if you haven't sent money here in over a year?" If they do link visas and tax compliance, will they also give us crap about not sending money here, even if our bank account is above the Marriage 400,000/Retirement 800,000 requirements?

[malt25]

I have little understanding of this subject. One question I would ask. Doesn't the taxation agreement betwen Thailand and 60 other countries contradict the new legislation ?

[Lopburikid]

18 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Actually, not.

 

So far, TRD has done zero to extract baht from Bob in the village, who still doesn't know about any of this.

 

 

What happens if the state pensions from your native country is UNDER the yearly personal  allowance (making it non taxable in your own country) can Thailand still tax it????????

[Cabradelmar]

This will effectively eliminate the benefit of bring able to gift money to your thai wife tax free.

[Presnock]

22 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Sure.

 

Just show Somchai in the local TRD office those English documents, and everything will be hunky-dory.

ENGLISH is the "official" international language here.  No Thai documents were necessary for obtaining the LTR through the BOI.  I think that there will be folks that can understand the numbers of those documents that I use from the US government anyway.  Only need to recognize a very few words - besides the numbers which are universal.

[Mike Teavee]

3 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

I'm yet to see how the Thai revenue office will know about income from UK assets paid to a UK bank account. 

Your UK Bank & HMRC share data with Thailand via CRS. 

 

E.g. Though my bank doesn't know I live in Thailand, HMRC does via my annual Tax Return so they share this data with Thailand & includes my name, date of birth, address & all income (outside of my ISAs).

 

As an aside, my accountant wrote to me last week asking for an up to date proof of address as I normally just email them my new address when I move so they don't have anything formal for my current address.  I don't know if this is a result of a push by HMRC or just them tightening up their processes.

[Aussie999]

58 minutes ago, Henryford said:

 

But in the UK i pay tax at 20% whereas in Thailand the rates quickly rise to 35%. Will i, or Aussies, have to pay any excess tax.

I have done some research, it appears both the UK, and Australia, have a double taxation agreement, with Thailand, so, an income, taxed in your home country, will not be taxed in Thailand.... however, if you earn income, in Thailand, then you pay tax on that income.

[Kinnock]

1 hour ago, phil2803 said:

Does the tax include Thai nationals earning income from overseas?

Unfortunately not ..... as the hyper-rich and the elite in Thailand are well above the law.

[Presnock]

22 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Well after you have all the documents notarized, apostilled, and translated along with the MFA signing off on it.....you can then move forward, that should only take forever, and cost a small fortune, that's if it can even be done (which it can't).

I used ENGLISH only documents to obtain the LTR visa through a Thai office.  I understand though that many people will have documents from other than English providers and that would cause a problem.  My documentation to avoid any Thai taxes on my pension can easily be read by non-English as the number speak fo themselves.  Yeah I am fluent in Thai but it wasn't necessary for my visa.

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, Aussie999 said:

I have done some research, it appears both the UK, and Australia, have a double taxation agreement, with Thailand, so, and income, taxed in your home country, will not be taxed in Thailand.... however, if you earn income, in Thailand, then you pay tax on that income.

It depends on the tax rates... E.g. if you earned $10,000 & were taxed at 10% in AUS you would pay $1,000 however if that income was taxed at 15% in Thailand you would need to pay the additional 5% ($500). 

[Felton Jarvis]

Desperately trying to get rid of the rest of us.

[Presnock]

32 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Is that after they enforce the motorcycle helmet laws?

Yeah and same with the locals on the Thai income tax laws too...just because they are basically ignored by the police but if immigration gets involved eventually it could affect the expats here.  I don't foresee any problems immediately and who knows, it may never happen in our lifetime.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

1 hour ago, Expat Tom said:

[...]there are MANY MANY other options around the world[...]

Such as? I am all ears.

[Surasak]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:16 PM, Pouatchee said:

happy days... not

so now the nightmare begins

 

 

so now they will have access to our home records... big brother... reallyyyy. 

 

double taxation? these matters really need to be cleared up and imho double taxation is just plain wrong... hope tere will be provisions blocking this.

 

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!

“Taxation is just a sophisticated way of demanding money with menaces”

- Terry Pratchett

[CharlesHolzhauer]

1 hour ago, Expat Tom said:

How to they propose that they discover my overseas income...????

An agreement called Common Reporting Standards which is adopted by many countries.

[Presnock]

47 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

There was a form I could download and fill out? yeah I'm not doing that and neither should anyone else. If when I do my extension in December they ask for it I'll do it then.

 

The rule is, never preemptively try to comply with laws unless you need to. This is how Thai people operate too and normal here.

The immigration folks shouldn't question you in Dec since one would not be required to file income taxes until the 1st quarter of 2025.  Funny how the expats jump on the Thais for the way they respond to laws yet those expats are just like the Thais in my opinion. 

[AndreasHG]

2 minutes ago, malt25 said:

I have little understanding of this subject. One question I would ask. Doesn't the taxation agreement between Thailand and 60 other countries contradict the new legislation ?

It doesn't. Take as an example the Article 20, paragraph 2. of the Treaty between Thailand and the USA: "[...] social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State".

It's clear that the social security income is only taxable in the US (and, unless the Treaty is terminated by one of the parties, which is very unlikely, it will not be taxable in Thailand in the future).

 

Paragraph 2. on the other end states: "Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State." Thailand always had the right to tax the US pensions (except those specified in Article 21, paragraph 2 of said Treaty). Up to now however Thailand did not levy any tax.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Shmo said:

Globalist tax regimes are being changed everywhere. Something fishy going on!

Good Morning Vietnam,  or Cambodia, or Laos!

Absolutely, too many people not paying income taxes to any country...so 138 countries signed onto the OECD agreement...US already has FATCA and CRS to share banking data to catch the non-payers...l that is what all this about, not something dreamed up by the Thais.

[Aussie999]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

It depends on the tax rates... E.g. if you earned $10,000 & were taxed at 10% in AUS you would pay $1,000 however if that income was taxed at 15% in Thailand you would need to pay the additional 5% ($500). 

wish I only paid 10% tax, in Australia... it's more like 33%.. Thailand would also depend on Australia informing them, of your income, it is not automatically given.

 

Article 18

Pensions and annuities

 

1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State.

 

2. The term "annuity" means a stated sum payable periodically at stated times during life or during a specified or ascertainable period of time under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration in money or money's worth.

 

[WoodyKenny]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:51 PM, Kinnock said:

Thailand can't tax its own people, so they want to tax foreigners.

 

Can't wait to see this Implode on them. Hubris of them to start, Great way to hault foreigners building dreams. Greed 

[shackleton]

I will wait until they come out with who will pay retired ect

how much of your pension or money transferred  in your bank account here 

It's all still up  in the air 

If its introduced you can make up your mind to stay and pay

Or depart to other shores

Majority will stay not much choice 

[Aussie999]

More info for Aussies, this is a copy of the agreement, between Australia, and Thailand.
https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1989/36.html

[WoodyKenny]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Absolutely, too many people not paying income taxes to any country...so 138 countries signed onto the OECD agreement...US already has FATCA and CRS to share banking data to catch the non-payers...l that is what all this about, not something dreamed up by the Thais.

Feel free to send all your money to them if that's how you how you feel. Since when is it right to take what's not yours.

 Remove all the foreigners that feeds this country and watch it implode.  Must be a true liberal...not paying fair share.

  What a joke.. 

[AndreasHG]

 

8 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

 

Article 18

Pensions and annuities

 

1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State.

 

 

This means that, if you are resident of Thailand, your pension and annuities are only taxed in Thailand. They are not taxable in Thailand (it's possible there are exceptions such as pensions paid to public servants).