On 11/18/2024 at 5:44 AM, spidermike007 said:

I don't make the kind of errors that result in bad accidents, much less fatalities. Why? Because I am very, very careful on the road,

no understanding of human error - just smug

Anyone from Europe or the US knows it is training that is most lacking for drivers and regular maintenance for vehicles that is the biggest cause of the continued slaughter on Thai roads.

On 11/18/2024 at 3:06 PM, cardinalblue said:

You are comparing apples and oranges and cherry picking one particular bad example to a culture that goes completely unregulated and unenforced on their roads..Targeted and practical enforcement needs to start. You can also throw in an improved road infrastructure like eliminating face to face u-turns and putting smart signals instead of u turns on heavy volume road with speed limits of 90 Km...craziness.....Thai road infrastructure today mirrors the 1950's...It has nothing to do with being a nanny state but rather Thai authorities don't want to spend/invest the money necessary to reduce accidents/near accidents. 

Im not comapring apples n oranges because this is EXACTLY what you will get in Thailand in 20 years or so, over the top regulation , you completely missed my point.

On 11/19/2024 at 5:09 PM, kwilco said:

Road Safety Misconceptions; here are some myths that need exploding

 

A Public Health Perspective on Road Safety

Thailand’s road safety crisis stems from rapid industrialization, increased vehicle ownership, and a lack of informed policymaking. To address this, a paradigm shift is needed: viewing road safety as a public health issue and adopting a "Safe System" approach, which has proven effective globally.

 

Here are some of the most common misconceptions about road safety in Thailand

Commentators overestimate their own driving skills
Most drivers, especially foreigners in Thailand, overestimate their own abilities while criticizing others. This phenomenon, highlighted by the Dunning-Kruger effect, reveals widespread misjudgement of personal competence.

 

Foreign Drivers and Cultural Bias
Foreigners often blame Thai drivers for road safety issues, perceiving themselves as superior. This reflects a global tendency for drivers to see themselves as "above average," exacerbating stereotypes and ignoring shared responsibilities.

 

Self-Centred Judgments
Many drivers consider slower vehicles as "idiots" and faster ones as "maniacs," demonstrating subjective perceptions rather than objective assessments of driving behaviour.

 

Misplaced Arrogance
Some foreign drivers view campaigns and road safety measures as unnecessary for themselves, believing accidents are caused solely by others. This mindset hinders collective progress in improving road safety.

 

Human Universality in Driving Errors
Thai drivers are no less capable than drivers in other nations. Historical data shows high death rates during phases of increased vehicle ownership in Europe and the U.S., illustrating that Thailand's situation is part of a broader global pattern.

 

Accidents Aren’t Random
Most crashes result from minor human errors, not reckless behaviour. The aftermath of such errors—determined by road design, emergency response, and vehicle safety—significantly influences survival rates.

 

Driving Doesn’t Equal Expertise
Road safety is a broader concept encompassing road user behaviour and infrastructure. Being a skilled driver (or not!) doesn’t necessarily translate to an understanding of systemic safety issues.

 

Anger on the Road Signals Risk
Persistent anger or frustration with other road users may indicate that someone is unfit to drive safely.

 

Comparative Risk Perceptions
Driving a car in Thailand is statistically as safe as in the U.S., with vulnerable road users like motorcyclists and pedestrians accounting for 80% of fatalities.

 

The plural of Anecdote isn’t Data
Individual experiences can’t substitute for robust data analysis when forming opinions about road safety.

 

Beware of Confirmation Bias
Many drivers interpret information to confirm their existing beliefs, leading to distorted perceptions of road safety issues.

 

Avoid False Logic – e.g. false syllogisms
Misinterpreting connections between unrelated facts undermines rational understanding. Logical fallacies often distort discussions around road safety.

 

Statistics Need Context
Data on road safety, such as fatalities or crash rates, require careful analysis to derive meaningful insights. Misinterpretation of numbers can lead to flawed conclusions.

 

Diverse Metrics of Road Safety
Measuring road safety involves multiple statistics: vehicle kilometres travelled (VKT), deaths per 100,000 vehicles, crash types, weather impacts, and more. Focusing on the usual single measure (deaths per 100k pop) gives an incomplete picture.

 

Economic Impact of Crashes
Road traffic crashes cost Thailand 3–5% of its GDP annually, underlining the need for systemic reform.

 

Incomplete Data Reporting
Road death statistics in Thailand come from diverse sources like hospitals, police, and insurers. Inconsistent reporting hampers accurate analysis, while crash investigations remain inadequate.

 

Key Data Sources
Multiple agencies contribute to crash data in Thailand, including the Royal Thai Police, Ministry of Transport, and Ministry of Public Health. Integration and transparency in data sharing are critical for improvement.

 

The Safe System’s “5 Es”
Effective road safety strategies require a comprehensive approach, encompassing:

Education: Raising awareness among road users.

Enforcement: Strengthening laws and their application.

Engineering: Designing safer roads and vehicles.

Emergency: Improving response systems.

Evaluation: Continuously assessing interventions.

 

Shared Responsibility
Blaming drivers alone ignores systemic flaws. Viewing roads as workplaces highlights the need for preventive measures, emphasizing that crashes are avoidable.

Cultural Context and Solutions
Discussions of "Thai driving culture" often border on stereotyping. A better metaphor is likening road behaviour to navigating a river, where adaptability and shared responsibility ensure safety.

 

To conclude…

Thailand must adopt evidence-based reforms to align with global best practices in road safety. Key actions include:

• Implementing the Safe System's "5 Es."
• Strengthening governance, including a separation of legislative, executive, and judicial powers.
• Reinvesting in road infrastructure and safety measures.
• Not listening to the nape of the neck arguments of ageing expats, uninformed media and politicians

 

To build political will, citizens must demand safer roads and reject the "blame and shame" approach. A Safe System recognizes that human errors are inevitable but preventable deaths and serious injuries are not acceptable. Creating safer environments requires a societal commitment to shared responsibility, systemic reforms, and prioritizing public health over punitive measures.

 

exactly ott BS, Id bet you love writing up reports, can drone on for hours etc

3 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

exactly ott BS, Id bet you love writing up reports, can drone on for hours etc

So what do you not agree with? Apparently you have no counter argument....but no surprise there.

I have been writing on road safety in Thailand for about 20 years and have something to say...apparently you don't 

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

So what do you not agree with? Apparently you have no counter argument....but no surprise there.

I have been writing on road safety in Thailand for about 20 years and have something to say...apparently you don't 

You have, well it has made absolutely no difference to Thai road carnage and behaviour, try another subject..............😬

Lax laws is a stretch, and more like simply stupid drivers.  

 

Would like to see the breakdown of fatal MVA before & after 1800 hrs.   That might be telling if lax law enforcement is contributory  

16 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Anyone from Europe or the US knows it is training that is most lacking for drivers and regular maintenance for vehicles that is the biggest cause of the continued slaughter on Thai roads.

I am one of the people you mention, but I didn't know this. 

And I am not sure at all whether it's true.

Can you somehow support this statement or do you just "know"?

 

I see many other reasons for road deaths in Thailand:

- poor planning and maintenance of roads

- poor enforcement of the laws,  including poor enforcement of traffic rules,  especially with farang (BTW I still  have to see a farang who knows Thai traffic rules - just  read the hilarious discussions about specific rules on AN sometimes, where people living here for decades can't agree)

- too many motorcycles,  maybe the most important reason

- drug usage (esp. yaba, alcohol, cannabis, mobile phones)

...

7 hours ago, transam said:

You have, well it has made absolutely no difference to Thai road carnage and behaviour, try another subject..............😬

So not only do you not have an argument, nothing new there - you're still totally uninformed about the history of road safety in Thailand - up to your usually standard again.

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

So not only do you not have an argument, nothing new there - you're still totally uninformed about the history of road safety in Thailand - up to your usually standard again.

History, we all know the history of road safety here, it is STILL diabolical, I have been driving here to witness it daily for a VERY long time..........🤕