Here's what happens when the world's richest man buys the presidency

[AndreasHG]

22 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Being the 1% pay 40% , and top 10% pay 76%, of the income tax, that does make sense.

 

Dig a bit deeper and you'll find that the top 1% is made almost exclusively by the top salary earners (taxable earnings from 680k USD upward).

Who Pays Federal Income Taxes? Latest Federal Income Tax Data

 

An analysis on the top 25 richest people gave a stark result: 'According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.'

'No one among the 25 wealthiest avoided as much tax as Buffett, the grandfatherly centibillionaire. That’s perhaps surprising, given his public stance as an advocate of higher taxes for the rich. According to Forbes, his riches rose $24.3 billion between 2014 and 2018. Over those years, the data shows, Buffett reported paying $23.7 million in taxes', i.e. less than 1‰. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/06/08/richest-americans-including-bezos-musk-and-buffett-paid-federal-income-taxes-equaling-just-34-of-401-billion-in-new-wealth-bombshell-report-shows/

 

The reason is that the Federal Income tax heavily penalizes salaries vs. capital gains. Capital gains are tax-free until they are realized.

If this is a good thing or a bad thing is debatable. But the result is that the middle class, making its living working and earning salaries, bear the brunt of the federal expenses. The ultra rich and the 50% at the bottom of the pyramid live in a tax-free heaven, and their only concern (provided they are concerned at all) is the size of the public debt.

 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

 

Dig a bit deeper and you'll find that the top 1% is made almost exclusively by the top salary earners (taxable earnings from 680k USD upward).

Who Pays Federal Income Taxes? Latest Federal Income Tax Data

 

An analysis on the top 25 richest people gave a stark result: 'According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.'

'No one among the 25 wealthiest avoided as much tax as Buffett, the grandfatherly centibillionaire. That’s perhaps surprising, given his public stance as an advocate of higher taxes for the rich. According to Forbes, his riches rose $24.3 billion between 2014 and 2018. Over those years, the data shows, Buffett reported paying $23.7 million in taxes', i.e. less than 1‰. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/06/08/richest-americans-including-bezos-musk-and-buffett-paid-federal-income-taxes-equaling-just-34-of-401-billion-in-new-wealth-bombshell-report-shows/

 

The reason is that the Federal Income tax heavily penalizes salaries vs. capital gains. Capital gains are tax-free until they are realized.

If this is a good thing or a bad thing is debatable. But the result is that the middle class, making its living working and earning salaries, bear the brunt of the federal expenses. The ultra rich and the 50% at the bottom of the pyramid live in a tax-free heaven, and their only concern (provided they are concerned at all) is the size of the public debt.

 

Their wealth rose.  That doesn't mean their income rose, especially if tied to stocks.  Some assets aren't taxed until sold, as it should be, as they have no value, until sold.

 

When you have money and assets, they grow very fast once established.

 

The tax cose (USA) is already bias to higher earners.  A fair tax is a flat tax ... everyone pays the same.  Nobody should be penalized for working longer, harder or smarter.

 

I earn, I keep.  You want more, earn more.  Because you won't earn more, I have to give you mine, because I have more ... in what world is that fair.

[AndreasHG]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Their wealth rose.  That doesn't mean their income rose, especially if tied to stocks.  Some assets aren't taxed until sold, as it should be, as they have no value, until sold.

 

When you have money and assets, they grow very fast once established.

 

The tax cose (USA) is already bias to higher earners.  A fair tax is a flat tax ... everyone pays the same.  Nobody should be penalized for working longer, harder or smarter.

 

I earn, I keep.  You want more, earn more.  Because you won't earn more, I have to give you mine, because I have more ... in what world is that fair.

 

It's debatable. Taxes in most countries are a mix of progressive taxes and flat taxes. The US is no exception.

 

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 12/16/2024 at 3:02 PM, simple1 said:

Interesting opinion piece...

 

GOP legislators are toying with reducing payouts under the system, including raising the retirement age and other benefit cuts. As one GOP representative recently told Fox Business Network, “we're going to have to have some hard decisions” on Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare.

 

Trump’s GOP will be making “hard” choices, meaning they will be cutting benefits, in order to fund tax cuts for wealthy donors.

 

Here's what happens when the world's richest man buys the presidency | Opinion

Absolute BS!  And besides, Trump and the GOP did not buy the US presidency.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Absolute BS!  And besides, Trump and the GOP did not buy the US presidency.

 

You've totally missed the thrust of the article. The world's richest man refers to Musk. Musk has been nominated by trump to a major influencer Cabinet level role to cut costs, plus of course Musk will have the inside running for relevant trump admin contracts

[SanSaiExPat]

On 12/16/2024 at 3:02 AM, simple1 said:

Interesting opinion piece...

 

GOP legislators are toying with reducing payouts under the system, including raising the retirement age and other benefit cuts. As one GOP representative recently told Fox Business Network, “we're going to have to have some hard decisions” on Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare.

 

Trump’s GOP will be making “hard” choices, meaning they will be cutting benefits, in order to fund tax cuts for wealthy donors.

 

Here's what happens when the world's richest man buys the presidency | Opinion

You're entitled to your opinion as screwed up, biased and wrong as it is.  If you look at both major parties, Democrat and Republican in the USA they both spent about 7 Billion.   The outcome?  President-elect Donald Trump is the first Republican presidential candidate to win the popular vote in 20 years with 76.9 million votes compared with 74.4 million for Harris . Additionally, Trump won 312 electoral votes to Vice President Kamala Harris’ 226 votes. The American people want president Trump to reduce the size and reach of government and stop our involvement and entanglement in foreign wars.  Your claim that President  Trump will cut social security is false.  https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/bidens-false-attacks-on-trumps-social-security-plan/

[simple1]

4 hours ago, Bruce1054 said:

For God sake go to a mental hospital and seek help we are over you and your ridiculous claims 

 

Engage the brain, I didn't write the opinion piece. In any case it's actually referring to Musk and his brief to reduce Fed expenditure. Plus of course conflict of interests.

[simple1]

4 minutes ago, SanSaiExPat said:

You're entitled to your opinion as screwed up, biased and wrong as it is.  If you look at both major parties, Democrat and Republican in the USA they both spent about 7 Billion.   The outcome?  President-elect Donald Trump is the first Republican presidential candidate to win the popular vote in 20 years with 76.9 million votes compared with 74.4 million for Harris . Additionally, Trump won 312 electoral votes to Vice President Kamala Harris’ 226 votes. The American people want president Trump to reduce the size and reach of government and stop our involvement and entanglement in foreign wars.  Your claim that President  Trump will cut social security is false.  https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/bidens-false-attacks-on-trumps-social-security-plan/

Another one - Lol I did not write the article

[cdemundo]

On 12/16/2024 at 4:18 PM, paddypower said:

there is a saying...the  Democrats know how to lose an election - the Republicans know how to win it. 

 

Wow, great saying.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/16/2024 at 9:19 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

The USA is the most expensive democracy money can buy. That is no secret.

Nobody should be surprised that the rich get what the rich pay for.

Correct. No one is going to donate millions without some expectation of a return.

 

Does the OP think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Correct. No one is going to donate millions without some expectation of a return.

 

Does the OP think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

When you have a few billion, a million is pocket money.  I think it's more, 'sorry for being an Ahole in the past' than expecting something in the future.

 

They realize they picked the wrong side in the past, and making amends, beside a tax write off 

[herfiehandbag]

14 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

With you writing the script anything is probable.

Far from writing the script, merely an interested observer.

 

One must recognise, surely, the very significant element of self interest involved, in putting a multi billionaire ( some would say the world's richest man) into such a pivitol role in an administration one of whose primary intents is to dramatically reduce federal expenditure, and another intent is to find large tax cuts for the very wealthy.

 

The self interest I refer to is both on the part of Musk, who stands to benefit from those tax cuts, and Trump who already has benefitted from Musks wealth, and no doubt wishes to continue to do so.

 

Far from writing the script, you and others did that when you voted him in. You own the script; I'm just not sure that many, perhaps most, recognise the implications, or perhaps care very much!

 

 

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

Far from writing the script, merely an interested observer.

 

One must recognise, surely, the very significant element of self interest involved, in putting a multi billionaire ( some would say the world's richest man) into such a pivitol role in an administration one of whose primary intents is to dramatically reduce federal expenditure, and another intent is to find large tax cuts for the very wealthy.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1346345-heres-what-happens-when-the-worlds-richest-man-buys-the-presidency/page/5/

The self interest I refer to is both on the part of Musk, who stands to benefit from those tax cuts, and Trump who already has benefitted from Musks wealth, and no doubt wishes to continue to do so.

 

Far from writing the script, you and others did that when you voted him in. You own the script; I'm just not sure that many, perhaps most, recognise the implications, or perhaps care very much!

 

 

I was making light of your use of the word "probably" in describing Musk's motivations and intentions.

Just because Musk exerts a lot of influence doesn't necessarily mean he will get his way.  We will have to wait and see how accurate your description is.

 

[RocketDog]

On 12/16/2024 at 4:18 PM, paddypower said:

there is a saying...the  Democrats know how to lose an election - the Republicans know how to win it. 

 

There is a saying?

Hmmm. Never heard it.

 

Is this the recent election or all past elections? I could swear I remember some Democrat presidents in the past.

 

 

Trump edged by, hardly a mandate.

 

But by all means carry on with your fantasy ride.

[frank83628]

16 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

You've totally missed the thrust of the article. The world's richest man refers to Musk. Musk has been nominated by trump to a major influencer Cabinet level role to cut costs, plus of course Musk will have the inside running for relevant trump admin contracts

And?

[SunnyinBangrak]

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

There is a saying?

Hmmm. Never heard it.

 

Is this the recent election or all past elections? I could swear I remember some Democrat presidents in the past.

 

 

Trump edged by, hardly a mandate.

 

But by all means carry on with your fantasy ride.

Quote "Trump edged by, hardly a mandate"

 Who told you this? Msnbc? Cnn? Have you even seen the map showing how America(away from coastal elite bubbles) voted? It was a crushing landslide and he has a mandate to do anything he wants, regardless of the heads up screaming left.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/map-trump-red-blue-counties-2024/

[Hawaiian]

8 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Quote "Trump edged by, hardly a mandate"

 Who told you this? Msnbc? Cnn? Have you even seen the map showing how America(away from coastal elite bubbles) voted? It was a crushing landslide and he has a mandate to do anything he wants, regardless of the heads up screaming left.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/map-trump-red-blue-counties-2024/

Mandate or not, there is a limit to what he can do.  That is the purpose of having three branches of government.

[Lacessit]

On 12/17/2024 at 5:44 PM, KhunLA said:

Their wealth rose.  That doesn't mean their income rose, especially if tied to stocks.  Some assets aren't taxed until sold, as it should be, as they have no value, until sold.

 

When you have money and assets, they grow very fast once established.

 

The tax cose (USA) is already bias to higher earners.  A fair tax is a flat tax ... everyone pays the same.  Nobody should be penalized for working longer, harder or smarter.

 

I earn, I keep.  You want more, earn more.  Because you won't earn more, I have to give you mine, because I have more ... in what world is that fair.

The average person files their tax returns, and pays their taxes. Some may employ a tax accountant.

 

OTOH, a billionaire has a platoon of lawyers and accountants shuffling money between companies under an umbrella aimed at creating losses, and minimizing tax. Sometimes legally, sometimes not.

 

In 2016 and 2017, Trump paid $750 in federal tax.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

 

You seem to have difficulty in distinguishing between what is fair, and what is obscene.

[RocketDog]

16 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Quote "Trump edged by, hardly a mandate"

 Who told you this? Msnbc? Cnn? Have you even seen the map showing how America(away from coastal elite bubbles) voted? It was a crushing landslide and he has a mandate to do anything he wants, regardless of the heads up screaming left.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/map-trump-red-blue-counties-2024/

I'm talking about the difference in the vote counts not colored dots on a map.

Normal people don't require colored pictures to understand issues

[GypsyT]

On 12/16/2024 at 3:19 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

The USA is the most expensive democracy money can buy.

We also have "The best judges money can buy".

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

We also have "The best judges money can buy".

But unfortunately, few good politicians.

Instead, they have the politicians money can buy.

[cdemundo]

News reports that Musk pressured Trump, who pressured Republicans to renege on budget deal, putting Federal Govt at risk of shutdown.

So is Trump gonna be Musk's puppet gong forward?

[cdemundo]

17 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Quote "Trump edged by, hardly a mandate"

 Who told you this? Msnbc? Cnn? Have you even seen the map showing how America(away from coastal elite bubbles) voted? It was a crushing landslide and he has a mandate to do anything he wants, regardless of the heads up screaming left.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/map-trump-red-blue-counties-2024/

Map proves conclusively that Trump got a lot of counties where nobody lives.

It isn't a question of coastal elites, the blue counties are the populated counties.

 

[john donson]

something wrong with a man wanting to clean up useless big government ?

 

start by jailing fauci

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Trump edged by, hardly a mandate.

Still crying that Harris lost, apparently. 😪

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The average person files their tax returns, and pays their taxes. Some may employ a tax accountant.

 

OTOH, a billionaire has a platoon of lawyers and accountants shuffling money between companies under an umbrella aimed at creating losses, and minimizing tax. Sometimes legally, sometimes not.

 

In 2016 and 2017, Trump paid $750 in federal tax.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

 

You seem to have difficulty in distinguishing between what is fair, and what is obscene.

You seem to miss, everyone has the same rights to file the same, using the same tax laws.

 

The higher income earners pay more ... that's not fair.  A flat tax is fair, and anything else is BS.  

[Lacessit]

26 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You seem to miss, everyone has the same rights to file the same, using the same tax laws.

 

The higher income earners pay more ... that's not fair.  A flat tax is fair, and anything else is BS.  

The system is not fair, as it stands.

 

Think about it. When you get a salary or wage, you are taxed on it. You don't get to deduct the cost of the food you put on the table, or the cost of running the car you drive.

 

OTOH. the money multinational companies and their owners earn has all expenses deducted before a tax is levied on their net profit. That's why corporations have corporate boxes at sporting venues for top management, and it is deducted from their income as a legitimate business expense, labeled as advertising.

 

If you want fair, put a tax on revenue instead. Revenue cannot be shuffled off to a tax shelter, or reduced by deducting expenses.

 

Revenue does not have to be a big tax. IIRC a bean counter calculated for Australia, it only had to be 1% of revenue to achieve a balanced budget. Probably even less for America, with greater turnover.

 

It's a win - win. The only losers are tax lawyers and tax accountants, who in reality are not productive members of society.

 

Wouldn't you like to only pay tax of 1% on your income? I know I would.

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Wouldn't you like to only pay tax of 1% on your income? I know I would.

Left the silly taxation world decades ago.  -0- income tax now.  Research & planning is everything.  Only got hit 2X since retiring, and lied through my teeth to get the 37% rate down to 27%, which was bad enough 

 

Now I get to invest, nice ROI @ 100+% profits and pay no taxes, except the minimum land transfer tax.  We let them tell use what that is, and never volunteer any real sale prices  

 

I LOVE TH  ❤️

 

Off topic ... chit chattin with my brother this morning, retired years ago & doing fine, financially, but USA, what an overpriced sh!thole, if a working stiff just starting out.

 

USA is done, unfixable, and will turn into the same silly socialism of Europe.  Kind of sad really, and only taking <250 yrs.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

USA is done, unfixable, and will turn into the same silly socialism of Europe. 

Only rich people think socialism is silly. The rest of us, which is most of us, like a spot of socialism as long as it's not the dictator style socialist.

[GypsyT]

I like flat tax, like in Romania 10%, Hungary 15%, Estonia 20% etc

 

- It'll never come to the US because 10 000 000 been counters, many are Jews,  would loose jobs

- I learned to do my own taxes after "Pro" fkd up my $ 600 Covid return by filing wrong and didn't make it up