8 hours ago, uncletiger said:

 

The only thing I question about your assertion is that the responsibility lies in: "Trumps childish and narcissistic inability to ever admit having being wrong on anything".

 

I suspect the truth goes much, much deeper than this. Trump withstood his entire support base boo'ing him at his own rallies when he pushed this. And It happened every single time. A true narcissist would have stopped talking about it long ago. Narcissists crave public adulation, and he definitely doesn't get it on this. Whatever the purpose of these jabs was, it is intimately connected to the larger espionage warfare that Trump has been engaged in and that we have been living through these last several years. If Trump is still speaking about this, it means that he's doing it for a strategic purpose. Possibly to expose whatever malevolent force is truly behind it.

 

I consider the jabs to be a crime against humanity. And for the life of me I can't understand why Trump took it down this path.  But there is a bigger war at play here, and until we get full disclosure and all the facts of everything that has been hidden from us, I am not going to rush to a snap judgement. But that said, yes. I too want to see Trump be forced to explain how he could condemn so many people to suffering and death, no matter his true goal and the larger war he has been fighting.

 

Trump is just one of the faces of a deep, global paradigm shift which has happened over the last decade (from globalism to national sovereignty).

 

It's all about the result. If the desired result is achieved (i.e. complete dismantling and/or neutralisation of the pharmaceutical and banking cartels), then it means the people at the helm (and that includes Trump and many other people) did the right thing at the right moment. Whether people understand it or not is secondary and, ultimately, irrelevant.

Why am I unable to quote anything from page 1?

Obviously I can on page 2.

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Trump is just one of the faces of a deep, global paradigm shift which has happened over the last decade (from globalism to national sovereignty).

 

It's all about the result. If the desired result is achieved (i.e. complete dismantling and/or neutralisation of the pharmaceutical and banking cartels), then it means the people at the helm (and that includes Trump and many other people) did the right thing at the right moment. Whether people understand it or not is secondary and, ultimately, irrelevant.

 

Not sure if I can agree with a Machiavellian "the ends justify the means" approach, but I can appreciate your argument.

 

For me though, the manner in which the end of the criminal syndicate is achieved is also a very important consideration. If there were better ways to have accomplished the goal which could have resulted in less suffering to people, that is very relevant to the discussion, and Trump doesn't get a free pass just because the way he chose might have been easier for him than others. There has to be a strong reason why there was no other way, and he is going to have to explain and justify that.

11 hours ago, Dan O said:

How was it forced on you? Did they have a gun to your head or hold you down and jab you?

I guess you don't remember things like mandatory vaccine requirements to enter countries.

11 hours ago, Dan O said:

How was it forced on you? Did they have a gun to your head or hold you down and jab you?

Countless companies forced their employees to take it… after a period of severe economic stress. I personally know several people in Thailand who were faced with that prospect, including an English guy, married with two kids, who would have been on the streets with his family if he had refused. Yes, it was forced on him (and he didn't want to take it).

 

Indirect coercion is coercion. "You're free to not take it but you will lose everything", that's coercion.

57 minutes ago, uncletiger said:

 

Not sure if I can agree with a Machiavellian "the ends justify the means" approach, but I can appreciate your argument.

 

For me though, the manner in which the end of the criminal syndicate is achieved is also a very important consideration. If there were better ways to have accomplished the goal which could have resulted in less suffering to people, that is very relevant to the discussion, and Trump doesn't get a free pass just because the way he chose might have been easier for him than others. There has to be a strong reason why there was no other way, and he is going to have to explain and justify that.

 

I agree that there should be (and hope there will be) light shone on those years and what went down behind the scenes.

 

Covid was a declaration of war on mankind, and Trump, in his own words in March 2020, was "a wartime president". If you look at history, leaders in times of war are rarely faced with good choice/bad choice dichotomies, they make the least bad choice in extremely difficult circumstances.

51 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Countless companies forced their employees to take it… after a period of severe economic stress. I personally know several people in Thailand who were faced with that prospect, including an English guy, married with two kids, who would have been on the streets with his family if he had refused. Yes, it was forced on him (and he didn't want to take it).

 

Indirect coercion is coercion. "You're free to not take it but you will lose everything", that's coercion.

There was still a choice to be made. Coercion yes but not forced. 

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

I guess you don't remember things like mandatory vaccine requirements to enter countries.

I traveled numerous times to Thailand during that time and the only requirement was to prove your didn't have covid via a pretravel test. There was still a choice to be made, so you were not forced

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I understand Dr, Stillwagon was predicting a major airline catastrophe, caused by aircraft staff having compulsory vaccinations.

 

Airline safety continues to improve, except in Russia.

 

I also understand during the height of the COVID pandemic, unvaccinated COVID patients were 6-7 times more likely to need ICU admission than vaccinated patients.

 

Ho-hum, another anti-vaxxer thread. It reminds me of Einstein's comment about the Universe and human stupidity.

 

What would a day be on here without you calling people dumb and stupid. 

21 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Exactly. I dont like the vaccines, vaccine mandates (I was FORCED) and I think they could be harmful (like any other drug), but then the OP ruins the whole topic with silliness.

well I  during my 78 years of life have had numerous vacinations - especially for military and then for career being assigned around the world including underveloped Africa.  BUT, the COVID vacinations are an entirely different brand of medicine, from what I have read that actually can alter one's DNA and thus the big problem - especially in the autoimmunity parts of a person's body.  I know that it has affected mine, allergies that previously were "ignored" by my system now are affected regularly and it isn't age related.  I think there should definitely be a class action suit against the manufacturers (many of whom got rich off this), the pharmas and the govt that "forced" this on the public without knowing all the facts.  This is my honest opinion based on experiencing the after effects.

Regardless of the subject of vaccines the real fact is that Trump is a serial liar and has been his whole fake life.

1 minute ago, Andycoops said:

Regardless of the subject of vaccines the real fact is that Trump is a serial liar and has been his whole fake life.

76 million Americans disagree.

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

I traveled numerous times to Thailand during that time and the only requirement was to prove your didn't have covid via a pretravel test. There was still a choice to be made, so you were not forced

There are other countries than Thailand. You know that right?

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

I traveled numerous times to Thailand during that time and the only requirement was to prove your didn't have covid via a pretravel test. There was still a choice to be made, so you were not forced

Did you know that COVID-jabs are STILL required when applying for a Visa to visit the US? 

And that - besides the perks, help and support you receive - it is NOT required when entering the US illegally. 

23 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

All you gotta do is take a look at countries that had very little vaccine administration and they did not have excess mortality.

If you don't disburse the vaccine and you don't track the impact of the disease on the population, the result is a perceived low mortality from the disease and/or misdiagnosis of the impact of the disease.

45th POTUS Trump faced a conundrum: On the one hand 45th POTUS Trump correctly took credit for producing the covid vaccine at "warp speed" to save lives, but on the other hand 45th POTUS Trump denied Am,erican deaths from covid and wouldn't put resources into tracking the extent of spread of the disease because the vaccine proved successful.

But there was a considerable time lapse before the vaccine was available and the spread of covid.

"How Trump's Denial and Misinformation led to the covid pandemic's dark winter," by Yesmeen, Abutableb, Ashley Parker, Josh Dawsey, and Philip Rucker, Dec. 19, 2020

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115611/documents/HHRG-118-FD00-20230330-SD005.pdf

"Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated," by Christie Aschwanden, Oct. 20, 2020 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-false-claim-that-covid-death-counts-are-inflated1/

"In August, President Donald Trump retweeted a post claiming that only 6 percent of these reported deaths were actually from COVID-19." vs "94 percent of COVID-19 deaths reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention “were the result of 2-3 additional serious illnesses and were of advanced age.”

"The Trump Administration and the COVID‐19 crisis: Exploring the warning‐response problems and missed opportunities of a public health emergency," by Charles F Parker and Eric K Stern

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9115435/

 

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

There was still a choice to be made. Coercion yes but not forced. 

 

oh boy .............

21 hours ago, mokwit said:

If you give enough people a biologically active molecule, some are going to die from it. Top down public health knows this and balances the expected lives saved vs losses, it is a tradeoff. What was wrong was the way eople were coerced into a novel therapeutic (MRNA vaccines) which had not undergone the normal FDA approval process. There is an argument that accelerated approval may have been right under the circumstances, especially if the vaccine actually did 'stop the spread'/provide immunity* but people screamed at "deniers" that it was FDA approved, when it was not FDA approved in they way that normally means. It was not a vaccine as vaccines were understood prior to the definition being changed*.

 

 

The only vaccine I can think of given to reduce infection not prevent is the Polio vaccine which is given after someone has contracted polio, but that is because it may have benefit due to the way Polio spreads - BUT the vaccine is normally given to PREVENT infection.

You could be Kennedy's assistant or at least Janitor.

What you write is without any lack of knowledge. But how could you? You're not a doctor.

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why am I unable to quote anything from page 1?

Obviously I can on page 2.

On page 1 only nonsense

3 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Countless companies forced their employees to take it… after a period of severe economic stress. I personally know several people in Thailand who were faced with that prospect, including an English guy, married with two kids, who would have been on the streets with his family if he had refused. Yes, it was forced on him (and he didn't want to take it).

 

Indirect coercion is coercion. "You're free to not take it but you will lose everything", that's coercion.

Sounds like this English guy was poor, made poor decisions in life. Nobody forced them to get the jab. I guess living the life in Thailand was a better decision than life planning. I made it thru with a wife and two kids. But then again I prepare myself for life events. Have a job that pays me enough I can save for life events like a pandemic. Guess being an adult and making good decisions is not the norm. Next your gonna say he paid his UK taxes and should have the government look after him with a pension. How about saving money from 18 and building one's own pension.

 

The only person to blame is oneself if you think that people were forced to take the vaccine or risk being on the street. I would love to know how much money this English guy has on hand at this moment. If he, of she, does not have on hand enough money to live for a year without working (I do) their problem was not being forced to take the vaccine, their problem is not being prepared for life events.

2 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

What would a day be on here without you calling people dumb and stupid. 

I just wish there was a vaccine that made people smarter, then Darwinian selection would really take off.

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I just wish there was a vaccine that made people smarter, then Darwinian selection would really take off.

 

You would be a great candidate for first shot. 

10 minutes ago, blaze master said:

 

You would be a great candidate for first shot. 

I can see my post went straight through to the wicket-keeper.

 

Looks like I am living rent-free in your head.

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I can see my post went straight through to the wicket-keeper.

 

Looks like I am living rent-free in your head.

 

Na you just reek. Banging on about how much smarter you are than others yet so wrong about the political landscape. 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, blaze master said:

 

Na you just reek. Banging on about how much smarter you are than others yet so wrong about the political landscape. 

 

 

 

 

My mistake, I thought the subject was vaccinations.

 

Which one of my posts has a political reference?

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

76 million Americans disagree.

No one ever agreed to that. 76 million people never voted on the fact that he is a serial liar, nor did they vote he was not a fraud or a sex offender or charity fraud or tax fraud or housing rental cheat or employee abuser. Non of those issues were on the ballot. They voted for him against his opponent. Stop twisting information 

3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

No one ever agreed to that. 76 million people never voted on the fact that he is a serial liar, nor did they vote he was not a fraud or a sex offender or charity fraud or tax fraud or housing rental cheat or employee abuser. Non of those issues were on the ballot. They voted for him against his opponent. Stop twisting information 

 

I'm surprised you didn't fit in convicted felon and weird into that frothy rant. 

 

Maybe get a vaccine. 

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

You could be Kennedy's assistant or at least Janitor.

What you write is without any lack of knowledge. But how could you? You're not a doctor.

In studied Immunology as an undergraduate. I admit i didn't get into spike proteins etc because having studied Immunology I was well aware how much effort would be required to genuinely understand and I was not prepared to put in that effort. Others without this foundation knowledge clearly regarded themselves as experts, arguing with Immunology Professors about spike proteins etc, and telling them they were wrong.

 

I really can't decipher what you meant by what you wrote. I assume you were being snidey/negative about what I wrote. If that is the case please tell me on what knowledge base you are judging what I wrote i.e. how are you qualified to judge?

 

 

Trump obviously has never had any medical training or knowledge, and had to depend on advisors. I am disappointed that he has not admitted that he was bamboozled by Anthony Fauci, Rochelle Walensky, and other so-called medical experts into recommending the COVID jabs. At this point, he should apologize, and I believe that most reasonable people would find that acceptable. The evidence is out there that these mRNA injections do not prevent people from catching or spreading COVID, and are potentially very harmful. I am heartened that he has chosen RFK, Jr. to address the issue, and this hopefully will help straighten things out.   

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

In studied Immunology as an undergraduate. I admit i didn't get into spike proteins etc because having studied Immunology I was well aware how much effort would be required to genuinely understand and I was not prepared to put in that effort. Others without this foundation knowledge clearly regarded themselves as experts, arguing with Immunology Professors about spike proteins etc, and telling them they were wrong.

 

I really can't decipher what you meant by what you wrote. I assume you were being snidey/negative about what I wrote. If that is the case please tell me on what knowledge base you are judging what I wrote i.e. how are you qualified to judge?

 

 

As a medical doctor I am

4 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

What would a day be on here without you calling people dumb and stupid. 

A day free of posts from science challenged posters.  A day free from posts claiming that all but the MAGAtized scientists and doctors are as corrupt as the next president.