American Building Standards and Wildfires

[Flyguy330]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Raw wood shingles have been illegal in California for a long time.

 

Ever been to Provincetown? They have wood shingles on every roof, and walls too.

Though I know their firestorm risk is lower I still wonder about their home fire insurance rates.

[Flyguy330]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

A few months before I left for Asia, I bought a vacant lot in a lake community in Texas for $350.  It was listed on EBay, and nobody was bidding.  So it was an impulse buy. 

 

 

You have a very appropriate name then Impulse! 😄

[In Full Agreement]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:33 PM, BritManToo said:

earthquake or volcanic areas of the world.

 

 

So does that mean Japan and areas like it should be left barren?           Take a look at the Ring of Fire on a map.

[bunnydrops]

Being a West Coast builder for many years, I have found it rare to see a house built with wood exteriors for over 20 years. Wood shingle roofs have been outlawed and most if not all siding is done in Hardyboard https://www.jameshardie.com/product-catalog/exterior-siding-products/hardie-plank-lap-siding/select-cedarmill/statement-collection-colors/,

A brush fire can get to 1100C, and concrete has a melting point of around 1500C so it is not going to melt but it surely will take some damage and maybe fail to support upper floors. The real problem with concrete walls is its low insulating properties so something has to be installed on the inside to keep the house warm in the winter and cold in the summer. There in  lies the problem. In a fire the concrete transfers the heat into the interior of the building quickly reaching the flash point of curtains, furniture, paper and plastics. The walls may be standing but the place is gutted. Once the fire starts inside the house you have built a nice enclosed incinerator. It might be cooler outside.

[connda]

43 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

Being a West Coast builder for many years, I have found it rare to see a house built with wood exteriors for over 20 years. Wood shingle roofs have been outlawed and most if not all siding is done in Hardyboard https://www.jameshardie.com/product-catalog/exterior-siding-products/hardie-plank-lap-siding/select-cedarmill/statement-collection-colors/,

A brush fire can get to 1100C, and concrete has a melting point of around 1500C so it is not going to melt but it surely will take some damage and maybe fail to support upper floors. The real problem with concrete walls is its low insulating properties so something has to be installed on the inside to keep the house warm in the winter and cold in the summer. There in  lies the problem. In a fire the concrete transfers the heat into the interior of the building quickly reaching the flash point of curtains, furniture, paper and plastics. The walls may be standing but the place is gutted. Once the fire starts inside the house you have built a nice enclosed incinerator. It might be cooler outside.

Stick build houses burn for sure.  I remember a whole lot of years back when a fire swept through the hills of Oakland and only one house remained: the house owned by an architect who build his house to withstand fire. It can be done.

[bunnydrops]

4 minutes ago, connda said:

Stick build houses burn for sure.  I remember a whole lot of years back when a fire swept through the hills of Oakland and only one house remained: the house owned by an architect who build his house to withstand fire. It can be done.

Yes, keep shrubs and trees around the house to a minimum.

[Yellowtail]

18 hours ago, Flyguy330 said:

 

Ever been to Provincetown? They have wood shingles on every roof, and walls too.

Though I know their firestorm risk is lower I still wonder about their home fire insurance rates.

No, but I've been to Foxboro and Springfield a few times, loved it. 

 

The idea that the size of the fire is due to roof material is almost as ridiculous as the climate change argument. 

[cdemundo]

 

The wildfires are God's punishment upon America for stealing the melody of "God Save the King" and using it in the song "America the Beautiful",

Really surprised the US haters on here didn't realize that.

[Yagoda]

On 1/11/2025 at 7:44 PM, Lacessit said:

In America and Canada, I have observed many houses have roofs made of pine or cypress shingles, which then have bitumen applied for water-proofing.

 

As a recipe for destruction by fire, it would be difficult to find conditions more ideal.

 

While a metal roof might not survive in high risk areas, it does have a much better chance of doing so.

Ive seen houses everywhere that are built like crap. You should go to places where there are building codes if you dont like the way things are built. Plenty of places to go, outside your one trip to the Florsheim store in a shopping mall 40 years ago, if you were ever in America, you would know that building codes are local.

[Yagoda]

2 hours ago, cdemundo said:

 

The wildfires are God's punishment upon America for stealing the melody of "God Save the King" and using it in the song "America the Beautiful",

Really surprised the US haters on here didn't realize that.

You ought to see the "Palestinian" hate comments on IG laughing and celebrating the fires. 

 

Like they did after 9/11.

 

Ill leave it at that

[Yagoda]

There are 35,000 local jusrisdictions in the USA with local building codes. Therefore this topic is mildly stupid. Anyone want to tell us what the building codes are in deep blue, Democrat controlled LA as opposed to  deep blue Malibu?

[ronster]

I'm not understanding why all the houses on the beach went on fire and all burnt apart from the odd one . They were saying all the hydrants were dry and there was no water . The sea is literally lapping on the steps of all these places , so how could they not use the water from it to extinguish all the flames on the beach property 🤔

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, ronster said:

I'm not understanding why all the houses on the beach went on fire and all burnt apart from the odd one . They were saying all the hydrants were dry and there was no water . The sea is literally lapping on the steps of all these places , so how could they not use the water from it to extinguish all the flames on the beach property 🤔

From what I read, seawater was used as a last-ditch option. Aerial firefighters were scooping up water from the Pacific Ocean to battle the Palisades fire. Cautious use of salt water as it is corrisve and harmful to the environment. 

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, ronster said:

I'm not understanding why all the houses on the beach went on fire and all burnt apart from the odd one . They were saying all the hydrants were dry and there was no water . The sea is literally lapping on the steps of all these places , so how could they not use the water from it to extinguish all the flames on the beach property 🤔

Because all the foliage is dry and catches fire.  

[ronster]

58 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

From what I read, seawater was used as a last-ditch option. Aerial firefighters were scooping up water from the Pacific Ocean to battle the Palisades fire. Cautious use of salt water as it is corrisve and harmful to the environment. 

Pretty sure insurance companies would rather a property soaked in salt water from a plane or hose Vs house razed to the ground in 10 minutes by fire .

[ronster]

53 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Because all the foliage is dry and catches fire.  

There was practically zero foliage on these beachfront properties as they were all glass and walls with zero space used for garden , plants etc.

Plus if soaked in water they wouldn't be likely to burn.

[ryxyz]

Well, I don't understand how houses built with wood costs so much. And that's not the only problem with the houses, but it's how they've been building and they're not going to change. 

[Surasak]

On 1/12/2025 at 9:29 AM, Yellowtail said:

Codes in the US are generally designed to save lives, not buildings. 

 

The Palisades fire:
Structures destroyed: 5,316
Acres burned: 17,234
Deaths: 2

 

Deaths 16!

[Njoku]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:04 PM, Flyguy330 said:

So, we've all seen the destruction in California caused by the wildfires. Whole neighbourhoods literally levelled. Not a brick standing on top of another - except for the bizarre sight of brick chimney breasts rising up out of the flattened ash vista.

 

They're all so shocked.

The houses in the neighbourhood cost Millions!

Did I say houses? Man - I mean MANSIONS!! CELEBRITY MANSIONS!

All evaporated. Atomised. Gone.

How could it happen?!? It's so SHOCKING!

 

Well, if you've ever seen a building being erected in the US (besides skyscrapers) you'll probably have gazed in wonder at how they're built. All they consist of is wood.

Wood frame.

Wood exterior cladding.

Wood roofs, often with wood shingles for tiling.

Cardboard interiors - they call 'sheet rock', which is NOT rock. It's plasterboard, and easily lit up.

 

So when you have hundreds of MANSIONS (lol) crammed together in dry forest areas, and a spark ignites one - the whole lot can quickly go up too.

And wood likes to burn. And when it burns it burns completely. And all that's left is ash. As we can see.

 

There's a pic floating around of the Malibu beachfront, with ONE house standing, and all the next door multi million dollar 'mansions' burned to ash.

A MIRACLE! they say....

 

No it's not. It's basic common sense. It's the only house in the row made of concrete.

 

Why do Americans build these 5hitty structures? How can the 'building code' allow WOOD structures to be built in high fire risk zones? How can a pile of matchwood be called a MANSION, and carry million dollar valuations?

All fake, like so much else about the USofA.

You dont know what you are talking about, Australia and the US build with timber frames, and these houses can be made fire proof, it would be the same in the US, they have a building code, once its established the area is a fire risk its reclassified then the building code is updated for fire risk, all new housing then must meet the criteria of the code or it wont be given a certificate to occupy  then we would get critics like yourself wanting to build a house in a fire risk area complaint how much his new house is going to cost because it needs to comply to that areas building code.

 

Add forestry not maintaining the forests throw in a dry winter add a hot summer then some residents not doing the right thing by keeping gardens etc clear, you obviously never lived in a dry country or area....

 

Obviously a lot of the houses where built before the more stringent building codes came in, then you get a one in a 50 year fire, sometimes you cant stop nature, as for solid brick house still standing, the heat can affect them too, might still be standing but may need to be demolished, and why build with timber frame? starts with plenty of timber, AU and US have/had so much timber they supply the rest of the world, easier to work with, easier to modify as well, win win.

[Hardcastle P]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:15 PM, marin said:

They are safer during an earthquake. Hope you feel better now after your America clueless USA bashing. 

Chimneys?

[Iron Tongue]

On 1/11/2025 at 6:35 PM, Yellowtail said:

Raw wood shingles have been illegal in California for a long time. 

 

All roofing materials must be fire rated. 

 

California has some of the strongest fire codes in the world. 

Yep.

Wooden shingles, actually called shake, have been banned for at least 3 decades.  Those tiles are made from terra cotta and newer concrete-steel composites.

But we have all these genius' commenting on things they know absolutely shi* about.

In the real world, there isn't much that can be done when a FIRESTORM with flames up to 80' high and over 1000°F sweeps through a neighborhood.  Did anyone notice the melted cars?

 

Separately, wood framing is an excellent material for building houses as they "breathe" with the weather and expand or contract as necessary.  Wood frames bolted to concrete foundations are also the best design to flex and handle settling as well as earthquakes.

In Europe, wooden framed homes have lasted 500-years and longer.

So much for the AseanNow brain trust.

[Grumpy one]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:47 PM, dingdongrb said:

...or floods....hurricanes.....tornados....blizzards....arid areas....   LOL, are you for real?

Maybe those in Japan should start migrating to the UK soon?

Best if we live on the moon, no floods no fires no air to pollute

[Regyai]

[PETERTHEEATER]

On 1/11/2025 at 6:04 AM, Flyguy330 said:

How could it happen?!? It's so SHOCKING!

Er.....wildfire?

[dingdongrb]

53 minutes ago, Grumpy one said:

Best if we live on the moon, no floods no fires no air to pollute

My good buddy Elon would say Mars...  😃

[mikebike]

On 1/12/2025 at 1:28 PM, Flyguy330 said:

 

Ever been to Provincetown? They have wood shingles on every roof, and walls too.

Though I know their firestorm risk is lower I still wonder about their home fire insurance rates.

Cedar shakes.

[mikebike]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

From what I read, seawater was used as a last-ditch option. Aerial firefighters were scooping up water from the Pacific Ocean to battle the Palisades fire. Cautious use of salt water as it is corrisve and harmful to the environment. 

Salt water floods the south all the time. <deleted> dies, then grows back. Same as after a fire. What's the difference?

[atpeace]

On 1/12/2025 at 7:23 PM, bunnydrops said:

Being a West Coast builder for many years, I have found it rare to see a house built with wood exteriors for over 20 years. Wood shingle roofs have been outlawed and most if not all siding is done in Hardyboard https://www.jameshardie.com/product-catalog/exterior-siding-products/hardie-plank-lap-siding/select-cedarmill/statement-collection-colors/,

A brush fire can get to 1100C, and concrete has a melting point of around 1500C so it is not going to melt but it surely will take some damage and maybe fail to support upper floors. The real problem with concrete walls is its low insulating properties so something has to be installed on the inside to keep the house warm in the winter and cold in the summer. There in  lies the problem. In a fire the concrete transfers the heat into the interior of the building quickly reaching the flash point of curtains, furniture, paper and plastics. The walls may be standing but the place is gutted. Once the fire starts inside the house you have built a nice enclosed incinerator. It might be cooler outside.

Sounds logical but have my serous doubts in reality it holds up. 

 

If houses were cement, wouldn't there be less to burn in a neighborhood?  Also, I would bet in most cases brush fires that as you state reach 1100c don't cause the furniture within the home to combust.  My bet is a neighbor hood with cement homes would be MUCH better off than wood.  Insurance actuaries already have grasped this...

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Sounds logical but have my serous doubts in reality it holds up. 

 

If houses were cement, wouldn't there be less to burn in a neighborhood?  Also, I would bet in most cases brush fires that as you state reach 1100c don't cause the furniture within the home to combust.  My bet is a neighbor hood with cement homes would be MUCH better off than wood.  Insurance actuaries already have grasped this...

Yes, that why all the homes in Thailand are cement, because all Thais care about is safety, they would not own a frame house even if it cost a tenth of what a cement house costs. It the same in India and China. price is not object when it comes to fire safety.  

[snowgard]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:15 PM, marin said:

They are safer during an earthquake. Hope you feel better now after your America clueless USA bashing. 

They are not safer in earthquake zones. About this modern houses in Japan are build with concrete now.