Getting UK HMRC to recognise my UK State Pension as not receiving the yearly increases.

[Jonnapat]

Surprised to see so many comments on this subject. FACT. UK pensions have always been frozen for ex pats living in Thailand.

Petitions have been raised and questions even asked in Parliament to no avail.

My pension is frozen at the 2009 rate. 

To make things even worse the spouse allowance was also taken away a few years ago. 

Nothing you can do about it I'm afraid.

It's called government savings ,while the super rich get away with everything nowadays 

 

 

[CFCol]

On 1/26/2025 at 6:50 AM, Pumpuynarak said:

Thanks guys for your help, i appreciate. I'll try the HMRC webchat first as ''Mutt Daeng'' suggests and hopefully i'll get the same positive result, if not i'll lodge a complaint as ''topt'' did as their piss poor response surely deserves. Final solution will be to write to them as ''Moonlover'' recco's.

 

I'll update thread in due course.

 

I can't for the life of me understand why this is continually happening year after year despite it being corrected in the past, as ''MartinL states ''its FROZEN'' all the time i am living in Thailand and i certainly have no intention of returning to the UK with my Thai wifey to live.

They really don't appear to GAF about us guys despite us being in some cases considerable tax payers, just the same as when ''i pop me clogs'' and wifey claims her 50% widows pension from my private company scheme. She's entitled to the personal allowance every year but has to claim it EVERY year when nothing changes from year to year !!!

 

Rant over lol, once again THANKS GUYS.

How long have you lived in Thailand.

If it's less than 15 years, you are still entitled to vote in general elections and therefore have an MP for your last UK address.

Write to your MP. That will get them moving.

[Pumpuynarak]

6 minutes ago, CFCol said:

How long have you lived in Thailand.

If it's less than 15 years, you are still entitled to vote in general elections and therefore have an MP for your last UK address.

Write to your MP. That will get them moving.

 

18 years. I think you will find that the 15 year has been abolished and you can now vote irrespective of how many years you have lived outside the UK.

I did consider contacting my MP but i think that would be a long winded way of addressing the issue.

[Pumpuynarak]

36 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So you are getting your annual increase? What are you worrying about. Tax will be minimal, if any.

 

I think you are missing the point, i'm NOT getting any annual increase but HMRC for whatever reason are assuming that i am and taxing me accordingly and at 40% !!!

 

£10 per week x 53 = £530 x 40% = £212 income tax per year that i am paying that i'm not liable for as i'm not receiving the £10 per week SP increase.

[helloagain]

On 1/25/2025 at 9:39 AM, Pumpuynarak said:

I'm having extreme difficulty in getting the UK HMRC to recognise that i don't receive the yearly increases to my state pension as i'm resident in Thailand. Now this problem has been evident every year for some inexplicable reason and i have to contact HMRC and the DWP and attempt to get it sorted which always proves difficult. This current year 2024-2025 is really proving difficult despite numerous telephone calls to the both of them.

 

Why oh why this is a problem is beyond me, neither of them appear to want to correct the problem, either now or in the future so the problem just continues.

 

Is anyone else suffering the same problems ? i can't believe i'm the only one !!!  

DWP ARE A WASTE OF TIME. i ENDED UP CONTACTING THE uk TAX OFFICE AND THEY WILL IGNOR WHAT DWP SENDS THEM. I GOT A NICE REBATE OF OVER TAX PAID.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

It's about HMRC failing to recognize that the state pension is frozen for expats such as ourselves. 

Shhhhh !

[KannikaP]

49 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

I think you are missing the point, i'm NOT getting any annual increase but HMRC for whatever reason are assuming that i am and taxing me accordingly and at 40% !!!

 

£10 per week x 53 = £530 x 40% = £212 income tax per year that i am paying that i'm not liable for as i'm not receiving the £10 per week SP increase.

Assume that your State Pension is the FIRST part of your Allowance of 12570, so it is at 0%.

It is the extra Pensions/Income bringing it over 50,270 which is being taxed at 40%.

There are only 52 weeks in my year.

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, Jonnapat said:

Surprised to see so many comments on this subject. FACT. UK pensions have always been frozen for ex pats living in Thailand.

Petitions have been raised and questions even asked in Parliament to no avail.

My pension is frozen at the 2009 rate. 

To make things even worse the spouse allowance was also taken away a few years ago. 

Nothing you can do about it I'm afraid.

It's called government savings ,while the super rich get away with everything nowadays 

 

 

I suggest you read the OP carefully. The guy's saying that although his pension is frozen, he's still being taxed by HMRC as though he's receiving the annual increase. 

[Burma Bill]

6 hours ago, petertucker48 said:

Can I use my brother's UK address to get a yearly increase?

 

If your State Pension is paid into a UK bank account, should be no problem.

If your State Pension is paid into a Thai bank account, then problem.

[Freddy42OZ]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

You are indeed confused. This conversation has nothing to do with the unfounded rumour that Thailand intend to tax our pensions. It's about HMRC failing to recognize that the state pension is frozen for expats such as ourselves. 

 

It's a problem that's been running for many years.

 

I had no idea that the UK Government taxed pensions.  Surely people living here are not liable for UK tax anyway.
 

[topt]

17 minutes ago, Freddy42OZ said:

 

I had no idea that the UK Government taxed pensions.  Surely people living here are not liable for UK tax anyway.
 

Most income that arises in the UK is taxed by the UK after the £12,570 single persons allowance.

So you would pay tax on pension income over that figure, interest on cash, dividends, bond coupons etc.

However if officially non-resident for tax you don't pay any capital gains other than on property so profit from share sales for example are not taxed.

 

If you have income offshore and are non resident then that income is not taxable by HMRC.

[theoldgit]

22 minutes ago, topt said:

Most income that arises in the UK is taxed by the UK after the £12,570 single persons allowance.

So you would pay tax on pension income over that figure, interest on cash, dividends, bond coupons etc.

However if officially non-resident for tax you don't pay any capital gains other than on property so profit from share sales for example are not taxed.

 

If you have income offshore and are non resident then that income is not taxable by HMRC.

Just to add that HMRC reduce the Personal Allowance by the amount of the State Pension to ensure that any further income, private pensions for instance, are fully taxed.

 

It’s surprising just how many people are being dragged into the 40% tax band by the fiscal drag caused by the freezing of the PA bands.

[Burma Bill]

2 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

 

I had no idea that the UK Government taxed pensions.  Surely people living here are not liable for UK tax anyway.
 

 

As others have stated, yes, UK pensions are taxed. In my case, I get three UK pensions, the State OAP (frozen from day one) and two other pensions that are index linked on final salary. When these three pensions are added together and credited to my Cambodian bank account,  the amount in excess of my 12,570 GBP personal allowance is subject to UK Income Tax debited at source in the UK. I currently pay around 800 GBP in tax per year on the excess. I do not have to pay tax in Cambodia.

[Pumpuynarak]

18 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Assume that your State Pension is the FIRST part of your Allowance of 12570, so it is at 0%.

It is the extra Pensions/Income bringing it over 50,270 which is being taxed at 40%.

There are only 52 weeks in my year.

 

Your total pension income from whatever sources be it state pension, company pensions is TAXED once it exceeds the personal allowance of £12570.

Your state pension is paid 4 weekly not monthly so you receive 53 weeks payments in a year.

[KannikaP]

41 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

Your total pension income from whatever sources be it state pension, company pensions is TAXED once it exceeds the personal allowance of £12570.

Your state pension is paid 4 weekly not monthly so you receive 53 weeks payments in a year.

Thank you. I was only trying to make you feel better that your State Pension was in the first part of your taxable income at 0%. Haha. 

Believe it or not, I get my State Pension WEEKLY. 

[Pumpuynarak]

50 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

Your total pension income from whatever sources be it state pension, company pensions is TAXED once it exceeds the personal allowance of £12570.

Your state pension is paid 4 weekly not monthly so you receive 53 weeks payments in a year.

 

6 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Thank you. I was only trying to make you feel better that your State Pension was in the first part of your taxable income at 0%. Haha. 

Believe it or not, I get my State Pension WEEKLY. 

 

Thankyou, perhaps i should have indicated that our UK state pension is paid 13 times a year not 12 times (monthly) thats why we receive 2 payments in one month of the year.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

 

Thankyou, perhaps i should have indicated that our UK state pension is paid 13 times a year not 12 times (monthly) thats why we receive 2 payments in one month of the year.

Typical UK stupidity eh? Mine arriving every Monday is much easier. 

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

I was not aware that people in the UK paid tax on their pensions!!! 

You pay tax on your income and the state pension is part of your income.

If the state pension was your only income and below the tax threshold, there wouldn't be any tax to be paid.

In some countries there is a low tax rate for low incomes, in the UK there is no tax liability on income subject to basic rate up to £12,570PA.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

18 years. I think you will find that the 15 year has been abolished and you can now vote irrespective of how many years you have lived outside the UK.

I did consider contacting my MP but i think that would be a long winded way of addressing the issue.

Not as straightforward as that. In order to vote, and have an MP, you have to register and that only lasts for a year.

I am not aware that abolishing the 15 year rule changed the registration process but would be happy to hear that it had.

I registered to vote against brexit and a year later got a reminder to re-register, didn't bother. Registration is at your last UK registered address which is now some distance from anyone I know, I travelled myself for the brexit vote.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Your state pension is paid 4 weekly not monthly so you receive 53 weeks payments in a year.

Indeed, You get 13 x 4 week payments, which was 52 weeks when i went to school.

What many do not realise is that every 21 years there is a 14th payment. This is dependant on when your pension started, I got mine after about 10 years.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Believe it or not, I get my State Pension WEEKLY. 

A weekly option is not available to overseas applicants, only 4 weeks or 13 weeks.

[OJAS]

On 1/25/2025 at 10:47 AM, topt said:

Do you do a tax return? If yes then you could just claim back the (what seems to be small) overpaid tax on that once a year.

 

Or alternatively do what I do and check the 2 items in the SA100 form stating that I don't want HMRC to recover through my tax code any extra tax due because of the State Pension, but instead make direct on-account and balancing payments to them based on the SP figure which I reported at item 8 under the Income heading.

[Burma Bill]

3 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

 

Thankyou, perhaps i should have indicated that our UK state pension is paid 13 times a year not 12 times (monthly) thats why we receive 2 payments in one month of the year.

 

For reference for UK State Pensioners living abroad with a foreign bank account:

 

 

When you’ll get paid

You can choose to be paid every 4 or 13 weeks.

If your State Pension is under £5 per week, you’ll be paid once a year in December.

Delays to payments around US federal holidays

If you live abroad and your payment is due in the same week as a US federal holiday, it could arrive one day late. This is because a US company processes these payments.

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad

[OJAS]

On 1/27/2025 at 9:17 AM, Freddy42OZ said:

I'm a bit confused as to what the actual issue is. 

I'm aware that UK pensions are frozen for people who choose to live in Thailand, but what is the issue with Tax? 

Thailand is only going to tax you (if they even do it at all) on the money that you bring into Thailand. 

What difference does it make what the UK Pension is for people in the UK? You won't be bringing that amount into Thailand so you won't be taxed on the current UK pension amount.

 

The issues here are that we have one part of HMG (in the form of the DWP) unfairly denying State Pensioners living in Thailand entitlement to annual "triple-lock" increases, and another (in the form of HMRC) rubbing salt into the wound by seeking to tax some of them as if they were in receipt of these increases.

 

Clear evidence, I think, that the concept of "joined-up government" back in the UK (such as this ever existed even in the Tony Blair era) is nowadays completely dead in the water - with each component part of HMG now seemingly acting under strict orders to confine its activities to matters which fall strictly within the purview of its particular silo, with blinkers firmly attached so as to prevent any "undesirable" sideways glances into adjoining areas.