President Zelensky sees the light?

[0ffshore360]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

What is this based on? 

 

Apparently about 1.5% of Americans visit the UK each year, while almost 6% of Britons visit the US. 

 

 

60 percent of Americans never leave home state or see the ocean in a lifetime. Apparently

[Lacessit]

On 3/5/2025 at 7:02 AM, KhunLA said:

Pretty simple ... Peace, no more loss of life, a ceasefire, end of aggressions on both sides, and should last for at least 4 years 

 

Pres. Trump will simply ask Pres Putin to stop, keep what you have accomplished.   State UA will not become another NATO member.   That's all Putin wanted to begin with.  The west to honor the deal made long ago, and for UA to stop killing Russians that don't want to be part of UA any more, since the coup of 2014.

Peace will last as long as it takes for Russia to rearm. Anything Putin signs on to is not worth the paper it is written on, he has proven that repeatedly.

 

The Budapest Memorandum guaranteed the sovereignty of Ukraine in return for surrendering its nuclear arsenal. Putin did not honor that deal.

 

There was no coup in 2014. Russia illegally annexed Crimea, then held a sham referendum, supervised by Russian soldiers.

 

I guess there's a few ASEAN posters who like rewriting history.

 

As an ally, IMO America is now more dangerous to its friends, than it is to its enemies.

[jas007]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Peace will last as long as it takes for Russia to rearm. Anything Putin signs on to is not worth the paper it is written on, he has proven that repeatedly.

 

The Budapest Memorandum guaranteed the sovereignty of Ukraine in return for surrendering its nuclear arsenal. Putin did not honor that deal.

 

There was no coup in 2014. Russia illegally annexed Crimea, then held a sham referendum, supervised by Russian soldiers.

 

I guess there's a few ASEAN posters who like rewriting history.

 

As an ally, IMO America is now more dangerous to its friends, than it is to its enemies.

Another person who has no connection to reality!  So the EU should work relentlessly to end humanity? Makes no sense. 

[rough diamond]

39 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

60 percent of Americans never leave home state or see the ocean in a lifetime. Apparently

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/

The abo e link is 5 YO but the best I can find in a short time;

 

Eleven percent of survey respondents have never traveled outside of the state where they were born.

-- Over half of those surveyed (54 percent) say they’ve visited 10 states or fewer.

-- As many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane.

-- Forty percent of those questioned said they’ve never left the country.

-- Over half of respondents have never owned a passport. (For years U.S. citizens did not need one to travel to Mexico, Canada and on many cruises, which may clarify the previous stat.)

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Another person who has no connection to reality!  So the EU should work relentlessly to end humanity? Makes no sense. 

Attacking the poster is the sign of someone with no other argument.

 

The objective should be to bleed Russia until it is no longer capable of aggression. Preferably with regime change.

 

How many American and EU lives have been lost in Ukraine? The Ukrainians are doing all the work for you.

 

 

[BangkokReady]

On 3/5/2025 at 6:53 AM, 0ffshore360 said:

I am still trying to understand what Zelensky gains for Ukraine by signing away mineral rights with no indication that Trump will provide further military assistance, will block eligibility  for NATO to satisfy Putin.

 

The inference that the minerals deal makes the US and the Ukraine's fate intertwined is fairly clear.

[Cameroni]

22 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Peace will last as long as it takes for Russia to rearm. Anything Putin signs on to is not worth the paper it is written on, he has proven that repeatedly.

 

The Budapest Memorandum guaranteed the sovereignty of Ukraine in return for surrendering its nuclear arsenal. Putin did not honor that deal.

 

There was no coup in 2014. Russia illegally annexed Crimea, then held a sham referendum, supervised by Russian soldiers.

 

I guess there's a few ASEAN posters who like rewriting history.

 

As an ally, IMO America is now more dangerous to its friends, than it is to its enemies.

 

Russia has been one of the most reliable treaty signatories of all time. The SALT treaties are a prime example.

 

The Budapest Memorandum was signed on the clear understanding that NATO would not expand eastwards and would not incorporate Ukraine into NATO. Once it became clear that NATO had lied and openly stated that Ukraine would join NATO the Budapest Memorandum had lost any basis or meaning. It was the West that broke the Budapest Memorandum by expanding eastwards and thus making Russia HAVE to focus on securing the great European plain, ie Ukraine, so it can defend itself.

 

Crimea was GIFTED to Ukraine by Russia. It was Russian to start with, and once Ukraine made clear it would switch allegiance to the West and join NATO clearly Russia HAD to annex Crimea for security reasons. Any fool can see the strategic military signficance of the Crimea.

 

You are in fact rewriting history, though you're probably not aware that you're spouting Western propaganda.

[johng]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The objective should be to bleed Russia until it is no longer capable of aggression. Preferably with regime change.

 

The objective is not to "save democracy" ??  seems the objective has changed,

well not really because you are right the objective from the start was to mess with Russia  with absolutely no care about the lost lives of Ukrainian citizens or the infrastructure and economy of Ukraine as well as trying to keep natural resources away from Russia  which has failed  cos they took the eastern 20% of the country.

 

Strange how I was called a Putin apologist for stating this  not very long ago.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Russia has been one of the most reliable treaty signatories of all time. The SALT treaties are a prime example.

 

The Budapest Memorandum was signed on the clear understanding that NATO would not expand eastwards and would not incorporate Ukraine into NATO. Once it became clear that NATO had lied and openly stated that Ukraine would join NATO the Budapest Memorandum had lost any basis or meaning. It was the West that broke the Budapest Memorandum by expanding eastwards and thus making Russia HAVE to focus on securing the great European plain, ie Ukraine, so it can defend itself.

 

Crimea was GIFTED to Ukraine by Russia. It was Russian to start with, and once Ukraine made clear it would switch allegiance to the West and join NATO clearly Russia HAD to annex Crimea for security reasons. Any fool can see the strategic military signficance of the Crimea.

 

You are in fact rewriting history, though you're probably not aware that you're spouting Western propaganda.

Do you write Russian fiction novels on the side too................🤭

[rough diamond]

41 minutes ago, transam said:

Do you write Russian fiction novels on the side too................🤭

Not even as novels, they would never be classed as believable and as such put in the science fiction/fantasy category!

He Just writes Putin's speeches and reprints them here.

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Russia has been one of the most reliable treaty signatories of all time. The SALT treaties are a prime example.

 

The Budapest Memorandum was signed on the clear understanding that NATO would not expand eastwards and would not incorporate Ukraine into NATO. Once it became clear that NATO had lied and openly stated that Ukraine would join NATO the Budapest Memorandum had lost any basis or meaning. It was the West that broke the Budapest Memorandum by expanding eastwards and thus making Russia HAVE to focus on securing the great European plain, ie Ukraine, so it can defend itself.

 

Crimea was GIFTED to Ukraine by Russia. It was Russian to start with, and once Ukraine made clear it would switch allegiance to the West and join NATO clearly Russia HAD to annex Crimea for security reasons. Any fool can see the strategic military signficance of the Crimea.

 

You are in fact rewriting history, though you're probably not aware that you're spouting Western propaganda.

IIRC Putin has signed into law first strike capability for Russia's nuclear arsenal.

 

Who has attempted to invade Russia since the Nazis? IMO Putin would be far better advised to be looking eastwards.

 

Russia ( or should I say Putin ) was making a motza out of selling oil and gas to Europe. Nobody wanted to upset that balance except Putin, who crapped in his own nest by invading Ukraine - again.

 

You are spouting Russian propaganda.

[rough diamond]

26 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

The inference that the minerals deal makes the US and the Ukraine's fate intertwined is fairly clear.

To who?

Have you read it?

By that I mean the one that Z has reportedly said he will sign.

 

[Lacessit]

25 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

The inference that the minerals deal makes the US and the Ukraine's fate intertwined is fairly clear.

Trump won't care if he is dealing with Ukraine or Russia for the minerals.

 

Any security assurances he offers Ukraine are worthless. Not that any have seen the light of day thus far.

[Cameroni]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IIRC Putin has signed into law first strike capability for Russia's nuclear arsenal.

 

Who has attempted to invade Russia since the Nazis? IMO Putin would be far better advised to be looking eastwards.

 

Russia ( or should I say Putin ) was making a motza out of selling oil and gas to Europe. Nobody wanted to upset that balance except Putin, who crapped in his own nest by invading Ukraine - again.

 

You are spouting Russian propaganda.

 

Putin used the nuclear strike option as a deterrant, to stop Western support for Ukraine, as you well know.

 

It's very easy to say "ah nobody invaded Russia since 1945", but in reality NATO's continous expansion eastwards into the great European plains put Russia in an almost impossible strategic position. The great plain is almost impossible to defend, or at least very difficult. It makes a lot of sense for Russia to control Ukraine, it is in fact a vital defence for Russia.

 

As for energy, Russia made more money during the Ukraine war with energy than ever before and the Russian economy was doing better than ever. In fact it was the Europeans who crapped in their own nest, making their own energy vastly more expensive and we can all see the economic consequences for Germany today.

 

You are spouting NATO propaganda.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Putin used the nuclear strike option as a deterrant, to stop Western support for Ukraine, as you well know.

 

It's very easy to say "ah nobody invaded Russia since 1945", but in reality NATO's continous expansion eastwards into the great European plains put Russia in an almost impossible strategic position. The great plain is almost impossible to defend, or at least very difficult. It makes a lot of sense for Russia to control Ukraine, it is in fact a vital defence for Russia.

 

As for energy, Russia made more money during the Ukraine war with energy than ever before and the Russian economy was doing better than ever. In fact it was the Europeans who crapped in their own nest, making their own energy vastly more expensive and we can all see the economic consequences for Germany today.

 

You are spouting NATO propaganda.

Tell us why NATO members "asked" to join NATO, not forced, asked to join NATO..........?  🤔

[johng]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Tell us why NATO members "asked" to join NATO

 

Because they thought they would get "protection" from big daddy America on the cheap + it is also cheaper to share the costs over many different countries so it does  make sense to join the club..until you figure in the antagonising Russia bit  which I don't think they thought about at all  until recently.

 

There are probably other behind closed doors incentives like maybe intelligence sharing and pathway to EU membership  trade deals etc etc

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Tell us why NATO members "asked" to join NATO, not forced, asked to join NATO..........?  🤔

 

Well, let's confine it to Ukraine, to retain a semblrance of relevance. Ukraine had developed ambitions to be an energy provider herself. This put her in direct competition with Russia. When the Russian friendly Ukrainian government was overthrown, with the aid of American intelligence but quite clearly also with broad popular support for switching allegiance from Russia to the West among a portion of Ukrainians, this was the key moment that Ukraine was set on a clear collision course with Russia.

 

The Ukrainians, like any cheating gf, knew that when she hops into bed with the West this would have unpleasant consequences due to her boyfriend Russia.

 

As a result the Ukrainians decided to seek the protection of the new boyfriend, NATO. However, as we can now see, cheating never pays.

[0ffshore360]

2 hours ago, rough diamond said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/

The abo e link is 5 YO but the best I can find in a short time;

 

Eleven percent of survey respondents have never traveled outside of the state where they were born.

-- Over half of those surveyed (54 percent) say they’ve visited 10 states or fewer.

-- As many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane.

-- Forty percent of those questioned said they’ve never left the country.

-- Over half of respondents have never owned a passport. (For years U.S. citizens did not need one to travel to Mexico, Canada and on many cruises, which may clarify the previous stat.)

Well done Trigger ! Apparently.

[0ffshore360]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

The inference that the minerals deal makes the US and the Ukraine's fate intertwined is fairly clear.

Not ! What basis  does it make it so? Does Zelensky surrendering to Trump  inhibit Putin  how?

Trump has  declared  no assistance in exchange .

 

[rough diamond]

1 minute ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Well done Trigger ! Apparently.

I like being told I have done well but I do not understand  "Trigger ! Apparently".

Please explain.

[0ffshore360]

Just now, rough diamond said:

I like being told I have done well but I do not understand  "Trigger ! Apparently".

Please explain.

Oh !  Never mind.

 

[jas007]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Attacking the poster is the sign of someone with no other argument.

 

The objective should be to bleed Russia until it is no longer capable of aggression. Preferably with regime change.

 

How many American and EU lives have been lost in Ukraine? The Ukrainians are doing all the work for you.

 

 

What part of "The war is already over" don't you understand? Maybe you are too brainwashed to realize that that's the case, but some people  see reality. 

[tjintx]

On 3/5/2025 at 1:26 AM, Hanaguma said:

It took a few days, but it seems that he has either come to the right conclusion or taken some good advice from smart people around him.  Pres Zelensky is now rather contrite, and willing to sign the deal he originally rejected last week. 

 

To quote in part from his authentic Twitter account:

 

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively.

 

 

 

President Zelensky sees the light....

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, jas007 said:

What part of "The war is already over" don't you understand? Maybe you are too brainwashed to realize that that's the case, but some people  see reality. 

Well, I guess the drones, missiles, artillery shells and bombs the two sides are exchanging just didn't get your memo.

[rickudon]

Zelensky never refused to sign the deal (which was actually the 3rd version drawn up, which gave better terms to Ukraine). It was Trump and Vance who picked the fight with Zelensky. Bully boy tactics at work.

 

Strange that your so called alley tries to dictate a Versailles reparations deal on you, not the enemy! 

[bannork]

5 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well, let's confine it to Ukraine, to retain a semblrance of relevance. Ukraine had developed ambitions to be an energy provider herself. This put her in direct competition with Russia. When the Russian friendly Ukrainian government was overthrown, with the aid of American intelligence but quite clearly also with broad popular support for switching allegiance from Russia to the West among a portion of Ukrainians, this was the key moment that Ukraine was set on a clear collision course with Russia.

 

The Ukrainians, like any cheating gf, knew that when she hops into bed with the West this would have unpleasant consequences due to her boyfriend Russia.

 

As a result the Ukrainians decided to seek the protection of the new boyfriend, NATO. However, as we can now see, cheating never pays.

The Ukrainians want national sovereignty, freedom and the opportunity to join the EU. Not be under Russian subjugation. The same aspirations as all the other  Eastern European countries once suppressed under the Iron Curtain.

And Putin's scared the Russians will want the same freedoms.

[bannork]

Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform: ‘Based on the fact that Russia is absolutely ‘pounding’ Ukraine on the battlefield right now, I am strongly considering large scale Banking Sanctions, Sanctions, and Tariffs on Russia until a Cease Fire and FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT ON PEACE IS REACHED.

‘To Russia and Ukraine, get to the table right now, before it is too late.’

Donald Trump threatens new sanctions on Russia after latest missile onslaught

 

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

The Ukrainians want national sovereignty, freedom and the opportunity to join the EU. Not be under Russian subjugation. The same aspirations as all the other  Eastern European countries once suppressed under the Iron Curtain.

And Putin's scared the Russians will want the same freedoms.

 

That's caca de toro though, isn't it? What the Ukrainians really wanted was cash, they thought joining the Western camp they'd get BMWs and could escape the drudgery and grayness of depressing Ukraine, it was an economic dream. Nothing to do with freedom from "Russian subjugation". Russia wasn't subjugating them for years when the revolution happened. In fact Russia had built and made Ukraine, even gifted them the Crimea.

 

Ukraine was like the ungrateful girlfriend who had a poorer boyfriend who did everything for her, but jumped into bed with the handsome, flashy stranger.

 

Now they have the freedom to die. Not a smart decision. Cheating never pays.

[bannork]

15 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

That's caca de toro though, isn't it? What the Ukrainians really wanted was cash, they thought joining the Western camp they'd get BMWs and could escape the drudgery and grayness of depressing Ukraine, it was an economic dream. Nothing to do with freedom from "Russian subjugation". Russia wasn't subjugating them for years when the revolution happened. In fact Russia had built and made Ukraine, even gifted them the Crimea.

 

Ukraine was like the ungrateful girlfriend who had a poorer boyfriend who did everything for her, but jumped into bed with the handsome, flashy stranger.

 

Now they have the freedom to die. Not a smart decision. Cheating never pays.

 Khrushchev saw the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine as a way of fortifying and perpetuating Soviet control over Ukraine.  Some 860,000 ethnic Russians would be joining the already large Russian minority in Ukraine.

No gift there.

The Ukrainians voted for Zelensky with 73 percent of the vote, the largest tally in the country's history,

with a pro-Western and pro-European foreign policy. Even now his popularity is high, higher after Trump and Vance's despicable behaviour last Friday.

 

 

 

[Yagoda]

On 3/5/2025 at 4:59 PM, Harrisfan said:

Some believe Putin wants to invade 3 or 4 nations next year. Given his 20 year record that's unlikely. He is 72yo and would have done it 10 years if he really wanted to.

Putin's not invading anything anymore. It's like being an old man ina go-go pick the best one cuz you're only getting one shot