Pension Tax Filing Report - Rejected

[Ben Zioner]

5 hours ago, Sophon said:

The new tax rules say that any assessable foreign income earned in 2024 and later, becomes taxable in Thailand in the tax year you transfer the money to Thailand. So you have a potential future tax burden hanging over you by not transferring the income.

The easy workaround about that is to organise a year where you stay only 179 days in Thailand during which you make that transfer.

[Ben Zioner]

5 hours ago, Sophon said:

and the quite generous annual deductions

Trifle amounts no decent allowance for families. I know a country where the household income is split by three for a family with two children.

 

Also cant you tell me when the brackets got readjusted for inflation, as they should.

[Sophon]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

Thanks for the report, I can follow your reasoning, and good example provided of regular transfer of income, yet remain no tax payable. You could also use other planning strategies such s gifts or remittance of original capital to achieve the same or arguably more optimal result.

 

Anyway, thanks again for providing your logic, although I don't share your perspective. I cannot agree with you having to inform/educate a Thai official of the 'rules' in order to proactively file. 

 

Additionally as another comment states, Thailand doesn't reward proactive compliance/doing things 'by the book', as you know the reality is often very different to the theory.

 

I'm interested, did you file previous years ( if you remitted your pension directly it was also technically assessable then) ?

 

If not, why this year?

 

I have filed every year since 2012, because I wanted to reclaim the tax withheld on interest on my bank deposits. I have been living off savings and haven't had any foreign income until 2022, when the first of my pensions started paying out. Since I didn't transfer any money to Thailand in 2022 and 2023, I haven't had any foreign income to include on my Thai tax return until 2024, and besides it wasn't until 2023 that the Thai government started talking about taxing foreign income transferred to Thailand. Until then it was always assumed that any transfers would be of savings from previous years, and the rules only allowed taxing of income transferred in the same year as it was earned.

[PomPolo]

14 hours ago, ukrules said:

Think of it as being similar to immigration making a mistake on your entry stamp.

It's your responsibility - not theirs. Same thing.

How could we make a mistake on our entry stamp? It is the IO that stamps it and has a record of you going through, but yes it is always wise do double check no mistakes have been made never happened to me

[Sigmund]

No matter what the lazy officer at the counter says, if the pension is paid abroad and is taxable...the Tax Man will catch up sooner and later and the arrears could end up in a huge amount. Better put the money aside as to not get into a financial distress when the tax man catches up. Better, if you can, either stay less then 180 days...or sell if you can and move to another country in Asia or even places in Europe like Malta, Portugal or Spain that have very low cost of living and far more decent treatment of foreigners.

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, offset said:

If he came from the UK his pensions should have been taxed so he do not need to pay tax on them in Thailand 

 

Better check the Thai-UK DTA.

 

I forgets the terminology, but if UK has primary taxation and Thailand has secondary, both countries may tax the same income, BUT the DTA ensures that it doesn't get double taxed.

 

One country gets to keep the tax, the other eats a tax credit.

 

If the UK tax is lower, he'll likely still have to pay some additional Thai tax.

[parallelman]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Better check the Thai-UK DTA.

 

I forgets the terminology, but if UK has primary taxation and Thailand has secondary, both countries may tax the same income, BUT the DTA ensures that it doesn't get double taxed.

 

One country gets to keep the tax, the other eats a tax credit.

 

If the UK tax is lower, he'll likely still have to pay some additional Thai tax.

The UK also has a form if one is taxed twice https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/taxed-twice...have other countries got similar?

[ukrules]

56 minutes ago, PomPolo said:

How could we make a mistake on our entry stamp? It is the IO that stamps it and has a record of you going through, but yes it is always wise do double check no mistakes have been made never happened to me

Didn't happen to me either but it does happen.

 

Imagine some local tax official filling out forms for years and doing them all wrong.

 

No problem until the auditors come knocking. It's not the tax official who has the problem then.

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

Up to you. I don't know what you're quoting - maybe you could let us all know, it might be interesting for me and others. I'm quoting the DTA for which I posted the URL. It's in English, German and Thai.

 

Perhaps you've found another Article in it and could let me know which part of the DTA you are quoting. It is most certainly what will be applied if it comes to legal consequences.

 

I'm obviously happily unaware of your legal tax status and happy to remain so. But generally speaking 'Wohnsitz' (presumably 'erste') is tax residence. If you've declared your official tax residence to be in Thailand to the German Finanzamt then they won't tax you. Obviously. They could theoretically reduce your entitlement though I've never heard of that happening.

 

But like I said I'm not going to get into legal complexities that are beyond me. I merely wanted to point out the actual text of the German-Thai DTA. It says nothing at all about taxing German pensions in Thailand under any circumstances.

 

Anyway, I wasn't wanting to challenge or squabble, merely add some information I hoped might be helpful in the form of the actual DTA. (Which I notice uses a totally different font to your quote.) 

 

Article 18.

 

Para 1 is irrelevant if you're not offsetting profits/losses from businesses.

 

Para.3 relates to state compensatory payments (also not liable to tax in Thailand).

 

Para 2 says in its entirety:

 

These are the only paragraphs I could find in the DTA referring to pensions. If you have found any others please let me know - I'd like to check them out, and also where you got that quote from.

 

Thanks.

 

(Mods: sorry about the font, I've transferred it via J.Peg as the only means I could copy it by from the original.)

Well thanks for that........I wasn't trying to be argumentative, it was just something I found on the web which was easier to understand than civil service speak. So the Tax officer would know this?

[TigerandDog]

Once again for the aussies in this forum 

"Some online tax accountants are advising the Australian/Thailand DTA does not protect an Australian account based superannuation pension from taxation when the payments are brought into Thailand, however the aged pension is exempt from Thailand tax."

 

I have had this confirmed by my District Revenue Office, CM Revenue Office and CM have sought confirmation from BKK and the response was that as the aussie aged pension is actually a social security  payment it is NOT assessable income under Thai Tax law.

[BusyB]

42 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Well thanks for that........I wasn't trying to be argumentative, it was just something I found on the web which was easier to understand than civil service speak. So the Tax officer would know this?

 

Looking at the posts of the last few months I suspect no tax office in Thailand would have any idea about this 555. The Finanzamt would.

 

But I'm not going to bother them because I'm keeping my tax residency in Germany.

 

I'll probably be resident in Thailand for 179 days next year. But I won't be ruffling the Thai revenue service's feathers as long as they don't ruffle mine.

 

I'm pretty sure they aren't interested in farangs who are only drawing a pension anyway.

 

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

No problem until the auditors come knocking.

That is a wet dream. If there is one single report of average Joe foreigner being audited and penalized because he's remitted few millions THB to buy a property or just maintain his lifestyle in Thailand, a massive exodus of these middle to high spenders residents is to be expected.

[redwood1]

15 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

says who? do you have that in writing from the TRD? no, of course not!

 

what we do have is an official document from the TRD that clearly explains who is required to file a tax return. that is a fact. everything else is simply not a fact!

 

 

Hey I have a metal trashcan and some matches were you can file this document......Give it about 30 seconds and it will be filed good.....Real good....

[redwood1]

13 hours ago, federicoP said:

Since the Swiss pension, unless it is a state pension, is taxable in Thailand, I would strongly suggest you do the calculations and check if your friend has to pay anything.

This is to avoid possible future problems, an official who says that the tax would be "very small" and that "other things that could be deducted are likely higher",  only shows his superficiality and incompetence

 

Wrong.....This guy sounds right on the money to me...

[redwood1]

11 hours ago, Sophon said:

Two weeks ago I went to the local Revenue Department office here in Lamphun where I live. I showed the clerk/officer the document from the Revenue Department head office (pasted above in motdaeng's post), and explained to her that I wanted to file a tax return including my foreign pension. Unsurprisingly she had no idea how to do that, as they had received no guidance from Bangkok on the matter. Consequently, I was handed off to her boss who also knew nothing about this, but could see from the official document that I was in fact expected to file a tax return for my foreign pension.

 

Over the next hour or so, I explained my circumstances (through translation by my wife) to the boss-lady, we looked at all my documentation and together managed to file my tax return electronically.  Everything was conducted in a very cordial and service minded fashion. I have just checked my tax return online, and it has been accepted and finalized by whoever does the post-file processing.

 

The problem people have had when trying to file their tax return, is that the provincial offices have received no guidance from Bangkok, and culturally when Thai people don't know how to handle a situation, they often revert to the "no need" response, even when that is not true.

 

Some people here ask, why on earth anyone would voluntarily go to the Revenue Department and file a tax return. Everyone's situation is different, but personally I have several reasons for filing:

 

Firstly, living in a foreign country where I have no absolute right to live, I try to do things by the book, which includes filing a tax return when i am obligated to do so. I don't want any risk of being accused of tax evasion (however small that risk might be) and jeopardize my future here. Especially since I don't actually have to pay any tax on my pension. The tax I pay at source is far more than any tax Thailand would potentially be entitled to, and I would get a credit for the tax paid at source.

 

Secondly, I am entitled to claim back the 15% withholding tax on my bank interest. It is not a fortune, but I still want it back. It's a nice little bonus to get the annual check from the Revenue Department.

 

Thirdly, avoiding having to file a tax return in Thailand by not transferring your foreign income, or simply ignoring the obligation to file for income you have transferred, could be counterproductive. The new tax rules say that any assessable foreign income earned in 2024 and later, becomes taxable in Thailand in the tax year you transfer the money to Thailand. So you have a potential future tax burden hanging over you by not transferring the income. By filing a tax return for that income, you clear that potential future tax burden. And because of the progressive nature of the Thai tax system, and the quite generous annual deductions, it's generally better to get the taxes out of the way annually, than to wait and combine income from several years into the same transfer.
Example:
A fictional foreigner (65 years old) living in Thailand, has an annual foreign pension of THB 1 million and pays tax in his home country to the tune of THB 100k. The double taxation agreement between his home country and Thailand allows both countries to tax that pension.

 

In scenario one, this fictional foreigner transferred the full amount of the pension to Thailand in 2024, and will do the same in the future.

Tax in Thailand on a pension of THB 1 million is THB 50k, but because he will receive credit for the tax paid in his home country, he doesn't actually have to pay any tax in Thailand.

 

In scenario 2, the same person decided not to transfer any money to Thailand in 2024, because he first wanted to see how things developed. However, in 2025 he for whatever reason wants/needs to transfer his pension from both 2024 and 2025 to Thailand. Because he transfers the money in 2025, the income becomes taxable in Thailand in 2025. 

Tax in Thailand on THB 2 million is THB 277,500, from which he can deduct the tax he paid in his home country in 2024 and 2025. That still leaves him having to pay THB 77,500 in Thailand.

 

But as i said, everyone's circumstances and reasoning is different, these are just the reasons why I have decided to file. You do you, and I will do me. 

 

 

 

Well I certainty hope you also filed for all the back years when you did not file because those years could also come back to bite you......And you do want to stay on the up and up...

 

The current tax requirements have been on books for a long time....Many years....  

[offset]

17 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Well I certainty hope you also filed for all the back years when you did not file because those years could also come back to bite you......And you do want to stay on the up and up...

 

The current tax requirements have been on books for a long time....Many years....  

Any saving you have before 2024 is non taxable, that is why they brought in the new rule to stop people using it as a loop hole not to pay tax

[federicoP]

8 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

Wrong.....This guy sounds right on the money to me...

What did I write "wrong"  ?

[soalbundy]

9 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Well I certainty hope you also filed for all the back years when you did not file because those years could also come back to bite you......And you do want to stay on the up and up...

 

The current tax requirements have been on books for a long time....Many years....  

but the new interpretation hasn't. It's like years ago when the 90 day reporting was ignored by the IO and then suddenly became necessary, nobody was fined for years of not reporting.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, Unamerican said:

No, it is not as simple as that: it depends also on your total UK income and taxes paid, with the exact details of the necessary calculation being somewhat complex. 

What is not simple is making a comment regarding comments on an original post that was incomplete.

The original post said it was only source of income but didn't say what type of pension or if recipient was tax resident in UK or not.

[sometimewoodworker]

11 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Well I certainty hope you also filed for all the back years when you did not file because those years could also come back to bite you.

FWIW you can only file for a very limited number of years (probably 3) in the past

[offset]

16 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Well I certainty hope you also filed for all the back years when you did not file because those years could also come back to bite you......And you do want to stay on the up and up...

 

The current tax requirements have been on books for a long time....Many years....  

Just filed my tax in the tax office no mention of previous tax years even though i was claiming back with holding tax for 2 years back year's 

 

Many falangs in the office

 

[Yumthai]

14 minutes ago, offset said:

Many falangs in the office

Yes Thais don't worry about taxes, it's a farang hobby.

[offset]

4 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Yes Thais don't worry about taxes, it's a farang hobby.

Not many Thais have to pay tax

[Yumthai]

22 minutes ago, offset said:

Not many Thais have to pay tax

In absolute more Thais are eligible to pay taxes than foreigners.

[offset]

7 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In absolute more Thais are eligible to pay taxes than foreigners.

True because there are many more of them than us

But most Thais will do online and not need to go to the tax office

The other thing most Thais would need to earn more than 20000 baht a month not many of the population will earn that much

 

[ukrules]

On 3/26/2025 at 3:53 PM, offset said:

I think you will find that Thailand as agreed to not double tax pensions

 

I wouldn't go that far, it seem like they can't be bothered with the hassle - at the moment.

 

[ukrules]

18 hours ago, offset said:

Any saving you have before 2024 is non taxable, that is why they brought in the new rule to stop people using it as a loop hole not to pay tax

 

Describing it as a loop hole is not correct. The previous system where no tax was due on prior years earnings was very deliberately introduced with a 'memo' issued way back in the 1980s.

Suddenly out of nowhere a new memo was issued some 40 years later which reversed the 1980s memo.

Which brings us to where we are now.

 

So it was never a 'loop hole' - which is an unintentional consequence of something which wasn't thought through properly - it was a very deliberate and meticulous act when introduced and a very deliberate act when removed.

 

[offset]

15 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Describing it as a loop hole is not correct. The previous system where no tax was due on prior years earnings was very deliberately introduced with a 'memo' issued way back in the 1980s.

Suddenly out of nowhere a new memo was issued some 40 years later which reversed the 1980s memo.

Which brings us to where we are now.

 

So it was never a 'loop hole' - which is an unintentional consequence of something which wasn't thought through properly - it was a very deliberate and meticulous act when introduced and a very deliberate act when removed.

 

Call it what you want but it was a way of avoiding tax (which is legal) and most probably used by many rich Thais that have overseas connections 

[bogozy]

On 3/25/2025 at 9:57 PM, patrickl said:

I am helping someone file taxes for their Swiss pension. Most of the funds (90-95%) are transferred every month from Switzerland to Thailand via wire transfer. It doesn't come from savings but straight from the pension (pension -> bank account in Switzerland -> bank account in Thailand). We went to the tax office in one of the major cities today and the officer said there's no need to file for taxes as pensions from outside of Thailand, only if there is income from a job or earnings from rentals, etc. and that pensions are not taxed plus there is a double tax agreement with Thailand and Switzerland. We informed them that no taxes are paid in Switzerland because the person lives here all year and the officer said still there's no need to pay taxes, as the amount of tax would be in her own words "very small" (around 30,000 Baht, after deduction of allowances) and the medical bills and other things that could be deducted are likely higher (the officer didn't even want to see those and we didn't mention any or bring any). I hope they will not come knocking at the door one day but they basically refused to even allow filing taxes or get a tax number.

I was in the local tax office at Phetchabun, with the bank statement, and copies of passport first and visa pages.

The officer helped to register on the internet surface, filled the electronic form of pnd91, and give the login name, and password for next Time.

All happened within 20 minutes.

Next year just 10 minutes.

[Yumthai]

4 hours ago, offset said:

But most Thais will do online and not need to go to the tax office

The other thing most Thais would need to earn more than 20000 baht a month not many of the population will earn that much

You're underestimating the weight of the informal economy that remains totally untaxed. There's certainly a substantial number of Thais that should pay taxes all income considered but don't (declare).