What exactly is a "facist"?

[swissie]

What exactly is a Facist. Tell me.

[Harrisfan]

Someone who likes faces

[Hellfire]

Umberto Eco, in his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism" (also known as "Eternal Fascism"), outlined 14 features or signs that define what he called "Ur-Fascism," or the foundational elements of fascism that can reappear in different forms over time. Here's a summarized version of those signs:

1. The cult of tradition – A belief in a primordial truth, revealed once and for all, often combining different religious or philosophical traditions.

2. The rejection of modernism – A distrust of Enlightenment rationalism, often accompanied by a rejection of progress and reason.

3. The cult of action for action’s sake – Believing action is inherently good and should be pursued without reflection.

4. Disagreement is treason – Critical thinking is viewed with suspicion; dissent is equated with betrayal.

5. Fear of difference – Racism or xenophobia; fear of outsiders and minorities.

6. Appeal to a frustrated middle class – Fascism often exploits the fears and insecurities of a struggling or declining middle class.

7. Obsession with a plot – Belief in conspiracies, often involving an "enemy" or scapegoat plotting against the nation.

8. The enemy is both strong and weak – The enemy is portrayed as overwhelmingly powerful, yet cowardly and weak at the same time.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy – Life is permanent warfare; peacefulness is seen as weakness.

10. Contempt for the weak – Elitism and disdain for the vulnerable or marginalized.

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero – Glorification of death, martyrdom, and militarism.

12. Machismo and weaponry – Exaggerated masculinity, violence, and control over women.

13. Selective populism – The “people” are represented by a leader who interprets their will, bypassing institutions and pluralism.

14. Newspeak – Use of impoverished, repetitive language to limit critical thinking and expression.

[KhunLA]

An image of everyone that lurks in the minds of mentally ill people that believe everyone they don't like ... are fascist  

 

 

[gargamon]

A pic is worth a thousand words.

[cdemundo]

Trumpism seems to meet most of Eco's criteria.

I think that in the historical perspective violence or the threat of violence against political opponents is seen as a big part of fascism.

[Magictoad]

36 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Umberto Eco, in his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism" (also known as "Eternal Fascism"), outlined 14 features or signs that define what he called "Ur-Fascism," or the foundational elements of fascism that can reappear in different forms over time. Here's a summarized version of those signs:

1. The cult of tradition – A belief in a primordial truth, revealed once and for all, often combining different religious or philosophical traditions.

2. The rejection of modernism – A distrust of Enlightenment rationalism, often accompanied by a rejection of progress and reason.

3. The cult of action for action’s sake – Believing action is inherently good and should be pursued without reflection.

4. Disagreement is treason – Critical thinking is viewed with suspicion; dissent is equated with betrayal.

5. Fear of difference – Racism or xenophobia; fear of outsiders and minorities.

6. Appeal to a frustrated middle class – Fascism often exploits the fears and insecurities of a struggling or declining middle class.

7. Obsession with a plot – Belief in conspiracies, often involving an "enemy" or scapegoat plotting against the nation.

8. The enemy is both strong and weak – The enemy is portrayed as overwhelmingly powerful, yet cowardly and weak at the same time.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy – Life is permanent warfare; peacefulness is seen as weakness.

10. Contempt for the weak – Elitism and disdain for the vulnerable or marginalized.

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero – Glorification of death, martyrdom, and militarism.

12. Machismo and weaponry – Exaggerated masculinity, violence, and control over women.

13. Selective populism – The “people” are represented by a leader who interprets their will, bypassing institutions and pluralism.

14. Newspeak – Use of impoverished, repetitive language to limit critical thinking and expression.

Anything else?

[Magictoad]

A fascist is a person who supports a far-right, authoritarian political ideology that emphasizes extreme nationalism, dictatorial leadership, and the suppression of opposition. Fascists often prioritize the interests of the nation or race over individual rights and advocate for a centralized autocratic government.

[CHdiver]

@Jingthing to the thread. He used this word very extensively in the last US election and after. He has to know it better then anybody else.

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Umberto Eco, in his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism" (also known as "Eternal Fascism"), outlined 14 features or signs that define what he called "Ur-Fascism," or the foundational elements of fascism that can reappear in different forms over time. Here's a summarized version of those signs:

1. The cult of tradition – A belief in a primordial truth, revealed once and for all, often combining different religious or philosophical traditions.

2. The rejection of modernism – A distrust of Enlightenment rationalism, often accompanied by a rejection of progress and reason.

3. The cult of action for action’s sake – Believing action is inherently good and should be pursued without reflection.

4. Disagreement is treason – Critical thinking is viewed with suspicion; dissent is equated with betrayal.

5. Fear of difference – Racism or xenophobia; fear of outsiders and minorities.

6. Appeal to a frustrated middle class – Fascism often exploits the fears and insecurities of a struggling or declining middle class.

7. Obsession with a plot – Belief in conspiracies, often involving an "enemy" or scapegoat plotting against the nation.

8. The enemy is both strong and weak – The enemy is portrayed as overwhelmingly powerful, yet cowardly and weak at the same time.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy – Life is permanent warfare; peacefulness is seen as weakness.

10. Contempt for the weak – Elitism and disdain for the vulnerable or marginalized.

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero – Glorification of death, martyrdom, and militarism.

12. Machismo and weaponry – Exaggerated masculinity, violence, and control over women.

13. Selective populism – The “people” are represented by a leader who interprets their will, bypassing institutions and pluralism.

14. Newspeak – Use of impoverished, repetitive language to limit critical thinking and expression.

Thanks to you and Umberto Eco for killing my belief that I had any useful answer to offer.

[blaze master]

39 minutes ago, gargamon said:

A pic is worth a thousand words.

 

Good thing the Pic on the right isn't real eh. Rather someone's rendition of what they think is real.

 

Good one.

[blaze master]

53 minutes ago, swissie said:

What exactly is a Facist. Tell me.

 

Trump.

[Mike_Hunt]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

What exactly is a Facist. Tell me.

 

Anyone who disagrees with a leftie. 

[connda]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

What exactly is a Facist. Tell me.

Anyone you don't like.  Even if the person calling someone a "fascist" is themselves an actual fascist.  In common parlance, it's a pejorative to demean another person.  But that's not Fascism.

Do you really want to actually understand "Fascism?"  Read Mussolini's thesis on Fascism:
https://sjsu.edu/faculty/wooda/2B-HUM/Readings/The-Doctrine-of-Fascism.pdf

 

You can also study the writings of Giovanni Gentile.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, Hellfire said:

Umberto Eco, in his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism" (also known as "Eternal Fascism"), outlined 14 features or signs that define what he called "Ur-Fascism," or the foundational elements of fascism that can reappear in different forms over time. Here's a summarized version of those signs:

1. The cult of tradition – A belief in a primordial truth, revealed once and for all, often combining different religious or philosophical traditions.

2. The rejection of modernism – A distrust of Enlightenment rationalism, often accompanied by a rejection of progress and reason.

3. The cult of action for action’s sake – Believing action is inherently good and should be pursued without reflection.

4. Disagreement is treason – Critical thinking is viewed with suspicion; dissent is equated with betrayal.

5. Fear of difference – Racism or xenophobia; fear of outsiders and minorities.

6. Appeal to a frustrated middle class – Fascism often exploits the fears and insecurities of a struggling or declining middle class.

7. Obsession with a plot – Belief in conspiracies, often involving an "enemy" or scapegoat plotting against the nation.

8. The enemy is both strong and weak – The enemy is portrayed as overwhelmingly powerful, yet cowardly and weak at the same time.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy – Life is permanent warfare; peacefulness is seen as weakness.

10. Contempt for the weak – Elitism and disdain for the vulnerable or marginalized.

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero – Glorification of death, martyrdom, and militarism.

12. Machismo and weaponry – Exaggerated masculinity, violence, and control over women.

13. Selective populism – The “people” are represented by a leader who interprets their will, bypassing institutions and pluralism.

14. Newspeak – Use of impoverished, repetitive language to limit critical thinking and expression.

 

The funny thing is, I could imagine a lefty applying that to the right, but I think the right could just as easily apply it to the left. 

 

It all becomes a little meaningless after a while, especially since the only reason it is used is as a kind of linguistic weapon, never in an honest or well meaning way.

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Umberto Eco, in his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism" (also known as "Eternal Fascism"), outlined 14 features or signs that define what he called "Ur-Fascism," or the foundational elements of fascism that can reappear in different forms over time. Here's a summarized version of those signs:

1. The cult of tradition – A belief in a primordial truth, revealed once and for all, often combining different religious or philosophical traditions.

2. The rejection of modernism – A distrust of Enlightenment rationalism, often accompanied by a rejection of progress and reason.

3. The cult of action for action’s sake – Believing action is inherently good and should be pursued without reflection.

4. Disagreement is treason – Critical thinking is viewed with suspicion; dissent is equated with betrayal.

5. Fear of difference – Racism or xenophobia; fear of outsiders and minorities.

6. Appeal to a frustrated middle class – Fascism often exploits the fears and insecurities of a struggling or declining middle class.

7. Obsession with a plot – Belief in conspiracies, often involving an "enemy" or scapegoat plotting against the nation.

8. The enemy is both strong and weak – The enemy is portrayed as overwhelmingly powerful, yet cowardly and weak at the same time.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy – Life is permanent warfare; peacefulness is seen as weakness.

10. Contempt for the weak – Elitism and disdain for the vulnerable or marginalized.

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero – Glorification of death, martyrdom, and militarism.

12. Machismo and weaponry – Exaggerated masculinity, violence, and control over women.

13. Selective populism – The “people” are represented by a leader who interprets their will, bypassing institutions and pluralism.

14. Newspeak – Use of impoverished, repetitive language to limit critical thinking and expression.

Funny that this post got 2 thumbs down.

Can't imagine what that would mean, they have an alternate description of fascism?

Are feeling attacked by fascism just being described?

 

[MicroB]

4 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

The funny thing is, I could imagine a lefty applying that to the right, but I think the right could just as easily apply it to the left. 

 

It all becomes a little meaningless after a while, especially since the only reason it is used is as a kind of linguistic weapon, never in an honest or well meaning way.

 

 

Same as over use of the terms "Leftist", "Socialist", "Communist", "Far Right" "Hard Right", "Marxist". "Liberal". Too many isms lose impact.

 

Its possible that the US President does not possess any sort of political ideology; he flip flops continuously.

 

He might fit various definitions of being a fascist, but might not actually subscribe to the ideology. At least John Kelly attempted to define the term when ascribing it to the man. Kelly described a fascist as:

 

Quote

"A far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterised by a dictatorial leader, centralised autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy"

 

That's a man who paid attention when attending the National War College.

 

An expert of the ideology agreed that the President is unlikely to be sophisticated enough to be a fascist:

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/we-asked-a-fascism-expert-if-donald-trump-is-a-fascist-124/

 

Quote

 

VICE: People are beginning to use the word “fascist” to describe Donald Trump. You seem like an expert in this area, so I thought you might be a good person to ask whether that label is correct.

Isabel Hull: My first reaction is that he is not principled enough to be a Fascist. He strikes me more as a nativist-populist. That is, some one from the right wing, angry about various aspects of the present, longing for a golden past, and focused primarily against his own government, but not equipped with a set of adamantine principles to be put into practice, no matter what, and no matter the cost.

 

 

Some argue that while fascism and popuism do share many features, fascism is a form of dictatorship while populism functions within the boundaries of democracy.

 

But populism can turn into something that more definitively fascism.  Some observers believe he moved closer to fascism after January 2020, showing increasing distaste for the levers of democracy. Others are less convinced. seeing how he equally praises communist and fascist dictators. inviting the suggestion that whatever 'ism he holds, it might be new and unique.

 

First time around, he was enjoined in cabinet by individuals generally holding high reputation; they likely agreed with his objectives but disagreed with the method, and hence were dubbed the "Adults in the Room". That all fell apart when he pushed back against people who didn't share his methodologies.

 

Second time around, the people he has surrounded himself with like his methodologies, but not his objectives, because ultimately, besides the banal MAGA slogan, which is amibguous and really doesn't mean anything,  he doesn't really have  any objectives. So they are taking advantage of his methodologies to further their objectives (the heritage 2025 mob).

 

These objectives are not conservative in nature. They are revolutionary. This whole nonsense about a "reset" is quite close to Pol Pot's Year Zero in some ways (arguably, Pol Pot was never a Maoist; his methods genuinely horrified the Chinese). They seem content to destroy parts of American society in order to further their oobjectivs of a reset.

 

I'm not sure the 47th President  is wholly convinced, hence his recent turn arounds. Who does he identify with in American society? he doesn't identify with the farmer; he has zero experience of farming culture. He was brought up entirely in a city, and like most city dwellers, scarcely thinks about where his food comes from. He doesn't identify with the working class man, because he's never been there, being born with a silver spoon. Sure, he knows what to say, because that's acting, and it helps the ratings to create a persona. And you know, given all the cameos, from those early appearances on The Jeffersons and The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, he's received acting coaching. What you see is not the real man, but a pastiche perfected on The Apprentice.

 

He might admire, from a distance, the Tech Bros, but probably doesn't understand a thing they say but wishes he could. He identifies with business. He is probably wuite well acquainted with the realities of a supply chain, understanding why his MAGA hats, ties, and sneakers came from China. He knows full well the watches weren't American made, but were Chinese. When a business person goes on TV and explains reshoring is all very well, but he doesn't have the $400k for tooling for the CMO that might or might not exist, and the tooling has to come from overseas anyhow, and even if he had all that, its takes 3-6 months to set up, and by then, the business has gone; the American leader likely understands that, and may even identify with it (or comes close to identifying with it)

 

He doesn't believe in the rule of law, because from his perspective, the law have been an embuggerance in business. Its not a disagreement born of revolutionary zeal, but basically ignorance. Those controlling him do understand it, which is evidenced by the numerous, on the fsce of it, small things happening. Where it all falls apart for them is Him; hs love of Ratings, or being liked. Plus he can fire them. And he will, like last time, ultimately doing a half arsed job.

 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

it's a term used by some internet moron that also uses the terms, resist, masoginist and Devine. 

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

it's a term used by some internet moron that also uses the terms, resist, masoginist and Devine. 

Some intellecx

 

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

 

 

Same as over use of the terms "Leftist", "Socialist", "Communist", "Far Right" "Hard Right", "Marxist". "Liberal". Too many isms lose impact.

 

Its possible that the US President does not possess any sort of political ideology; he flip flops continuously.

 

He might fit various definitions of being a fascist, but might not actually subscribe to the ideology. At least John Kelly attempted to define the term when ascribing it to the man. Kelly described a fascist as:

 

 

That's a man who paid attention when attending the National War College.

 

An expert of the ideology agreed that the President is unlikely to be sophisticated enough to be a fascist:

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/we-asked-a-fascism-expert-if-donald-trump-is-a-fascist-124/

 

 

Some argue that while fascism and popuism do share many features, fascism is a form of dictatorship while populism functions within the boundaries of democracy.

 

But populism can turn into something that more definitively fascism.  Some observers believe he moved closer to fascism after January 2020, showing increasing distaste for the levers of democracy. Others are less convinced. seeing how he equally praises communist and fascist dictators. inviting the suggestion that whatever 'ism he holds, it might be new and unique.

 

First time around, he was enjoined in cabinet by individuals generally holding high reputation; they likely agreed with his objectives but disagreed with the method, and hence were dubbed the "Adults in the Room". That all fell apart when he pushed back against people who didn't share his methodologies.

 

Second time around, the people he has surrounded himself with like his methodologies, but not his objectives, because ultimately, besides the banal MAGA slogan, which is amibguous and really doesn't mean anything,  he doesn't really have  any objectives. So they are taking advantage of his methodologies to further their objectives (the heritage 2025 mob).

 

These objectives are not conservative in nature. They are revolutionary. This whole nonsense about a "reset" is quite close to Pol Pot's Year Zero in some ways (arguably, Pol Pot was never a Maoist; his methods genuinely horrified the Chinese). They seem content to destroy parts of American society in order to further their oobjectivs of a reset.

 

I'm not sure the 47th President  is wholly convinced, hence his recent turn arounds. Who does he identify with in American society? he doesn't identify with the farmer; he has zero experience of farming culture. He was brought up entirely in a city, and like most city dwellers, scarcely thinks about where his food comes from. He doesn't identify with the working class man, because he's never been there, being born with a silver spoon. Sure, he knows what to say, because that's acting, and it helps the ratings to create a persona. And you know, given all the cameos, from those early appearances on The Jeffersons and The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, he's received acting coaching. What you see is not the real man, but a pastiche perfected on The Apprentice.

 

He might admire, from a distance, the Tech Bros, but probably doesn't understand a thing they say but wishes he could. He identifies with business. He is probably wuite well acquainted with the realities of a supply chain, understanding why his MAGA hats, ties, and sneakers came from China. He knows full well the watches weren't American made, but were Chinese. When a business person goes on TV and explains reshoring is all very well, but he doesn't have the $400k for tooling for the CMO that might or might not exist, and the tooling has to come from overseas anyhow, and even if he had all that, its takes 3-6 months to set up, and by then, the business has gone; the American leader likely understands that, and may even identify with it (or comes close to identifying with it)

 

He doesn't believe in the rule of law, because from his perspective, the law have been an embuggerance in business. Its not a disagreement born of revolutionary zeal, but basically ignorance. Those controlling him do understand it, which is evidenced by the numerous, on the fsce of it, small things happening. Where it all falls apart for them is Him; hs love of Ratings, or being liked. Plus he can fire them. And he will, like last time, ultimately doing a half arsed job.

 

 

 

Whether or not the label applies to Trump, why should it  matter what  someone believes  so long as their actions fit the description?

[Cryingdick]

Just now, placeholder said:

Some intellecx

 

Whether or not the label applies to Trump, why should it  matter what  someone believes  so long as their actions fit the description?

the intelekt is one of yours.

[Jim Blue]

8 hours ago, swissie said:

What exactly is a Facist. Tell me.

Someone who ate their  half of  the pie then  started on mine .

[Tug]

8 hours ago, blaze master said:

 

Trump.

Yup glad you are starting to understand (sarcasm alert) tho unfortunately the shoe does indeed fit.

[bamnutsak]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

and Devine. 

 

trump's drag queen stage name.

[dinsdale]

9 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Umberto Eco, in his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism" (also known as "Eternal Fascism"), outlined 14 features or signs that define what he called "Ur-Fascism," or the foundational elements of fascism that can reappear in different forms over time. Here's a summarized version of those signs:

1. The cult of tradition – A belief in a primordial truth, revealed once and for all, often combining different religious or philosophical traditions.

2. The rejection of modernism – A distrust of Enlightenment rationalism, often accompanied by a rejection of progress and reason.

3. The cult of action for action’s sake – Believing action is inherently good and should be pursued without reflection.

4. Disagreement is treason – Critical thinking is viewed with suspicion; dissent is equated with betrayal.

5. Fear of difference – Racism or xenophobia; fear of outsiders and minorities.

6. Appeal to a frustrated middle class – Fascism often exploits the fears and insecurities of a struggling or declining middle class.

7. Obsession with a plot – Belief in conspiracies, often involving an "enemy" or scapegoat plotting against the nation.

8. The enemy is both strong and weak – The enemy is portrayed as overwhelmingly powerful, yet cowardly and weak at the same time.

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy – Life is permanent warfare; peacefulness is seen as weakness.

10. Contempt for the weak – Elitism and disdain for the vulnerable or marginalized.

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero – Glorification of death, martyrdom, and militarism.

12. Machismo and weaponry – Exaggerated masculinity, violence, and control over women.

13. Selective populism – The “people” are represented by a leader who interprets their will, bypassing institutions and pluralism.

14. Newspeak – Use of impoverished, repetitive language to limit critical thinking and expression.

One person's definition from a novelist who amongst other things wrote children's books. Not exactly a scholar in political theory.

 

Umberto Eco^[a] OMRI (5 January 1932 – 19 February 2016) was an Italian medievalist, philosopher, semiotician, novelist, cultural critic, and political and social commentator. In English, he is best known for his popular 1980 novel The Name of the Rose, a historical mystery combining semiotics in fiction with biblical analysis, medieval studies and literary theory, as well as Foucault's Pendulum, his 1988 novel, which touches on similar themes.^[3]

Eco wrote prolifically throughout his life, with his output including children's books, translations from French and English, in addition to a twice-monthly newspaper column "La Bustina di Minerva" (Minerva's Matchbook) in the magazine L'Espresso beginning in 1985, with his last column (a critical appraisal of the Romantic paintings of Francesco Hayez) appearing 27 January 2016.^[4][5] At the time of his death, he was an Emeritus professor at the University of Bologna, where he taught for much of his life.^[6] In the 21st century, he has continued to gain recognition for his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism", where Eco lists fourteen general properties he believes comprise fascist ideologies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberto_Eco

[Gottfrid]

That is the definition of a Trump supporter.

[roo860]

6 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

That is the definition of a Trump supporter.

Judging by most of your posts concerning foreigners here in Thailand, it seems your a bit a Anti Foreigner Facist.

[Harrisfan]

9 hours ago, Magictoad said:

A fascist is a person who supports a far-right, authoritarian political ideology that emphasizes extreme nationalism, dictatorial leadership, and the suppression of opposition. Fascists often prioritize the interests of the nation or race over individual rights and advocate for a centralized autocratic government.

Central gov is left wing 

[baansgr]

Keir starmer has continually proven himself to be the ultimate fascist 

[Gsxrnz]

Fascism exists on both ends of the political spectrum. Denying this defines you as a fascist. 

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, Magictoad said:

A fascist is a person who supports a far-right, authoritarian political ideology that emphasizes extreme nationalism, dictatorial leadership, and the suppression of opposition. Fascists often prioritize the interests of the nation or race over individual rights and advocate for a centralized autocratic government.

Agreed, but imo missing is that they feel themselves above the law. Or maybe better, they feel they are the law.