I thought the coverage of the summit was disgraceful. Far too many talking heads often talking utter fantastical nonsense. 

 

I share some of the distaste of how brown-nosey some of the comments were in front of Trump. 

 

On the other hand the format did give the leaders a chance to say - ceasefire now, a policy that Trump bodyswerved - so he didn't get it all his own way. 

 

However - I'm stunned at one genius turn by Trump which if it comes off will make all the haters look stupid. 

 

The proposed Zelensky and Putin face-to-face summit. If Trump arranges that it will destroy the entire "Putin won in Alaska" narrative. 

 

It puts the entire imbroglio exactly where it should be - between the Russian and Ukranian delegation. 

 

If it falls to pieces at the summit so be it. Just getting these two into the same room is a diplomatic miracle. 

 

We'll see. 

Sorry, you don't seem to follow the news.

 

Moscow has already indicated that a delegation could be sent for negotiations. Putin would not be personally available.

 

Putin has won against Trump - as always he made a TACO again. No consequences for Russia at all. The house has agreed to set up the sanctions against Putin. TACO.

Typical Trump creating a photo op with him as the centeral figure of importance. Putin is playing him and he's too stupid to see it because Putin is playing to trumps ego

Trump has made extraordinary concessions to Russia in exchange for nothing at all. Russia has repaid him by continuing the war in Ukraine and mocking him on state-controlled television.

 

What are those concessions? Just by meeting Putin in Alaska, Trump ended more than three years of Western diplomatic isolation of the Kremlin.

By shaking hands with an indicted war criminal, Trump signaled that the killings, the torture, the abductions in Ukraine do not matter.

Even the choice of Alaska was a concession, and an odd one. Russians, including major figures in state media, routinely claim Alaska for Russia

Inviting people who claim your territory inside your main military base on that territory to discuss a war of aggression they started without inviting anyone representing the country they invaded – well, that is just about as far as a foreign-policy fantasy can go.

 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kremlin-russia-ukraine-donald-trump-b2697943.html

 

 

18 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

Sorry, you don't seem to follow the news.

 

Moscow has already indicated that a delegation could be sent for negotiations. Putin would not be personally available.

 

Putin has won against Trump - as always he made a TACO again. No consequences for Russia at all. The house has agreed to set up the sanctions against Putin. TACO.

Are you sure! From what I read, Putin's participation has neither been officially confirmed nor rejected by Russia.

Unfortunatley the article isn't in english, so I post only a translation:

 

In contrast, Putin's foreign policy advisor, Yuri Ushakov, initially only stated that the current direct negotiations between Moscow and Kyiv should be conducted at a higher level than before. He did not speak of a meeting between the presidents, but rather of continuing to discuss delegations. Zelensky repeatedly criticized the Moscow negotiators for not having any say. He therefore called for a direct conversation with Putin.

 

Today, 19.08.25 00:19 CEST

If Ukraine agreed to Vladimir Putin’s demands, handing over a vast chunk of the Donetsk Oblast province - where Moscow currently controls about 70 per cent – it would hand the Russian president some of Ukraine’s finest redoubts and most doughty defenders.

 

It would include thousands of miles of pre-prepared trenches, tank traps that snake across the rolling landscape and pre-prepared ambush positions – a modern Maginot Line.

 

Britain’s ministry of defence has estimated it would take Russia “4.4 years” and nearly 2 million casualties to take the four provinces Putin wants to claim.

This map shows the extent of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, including Donetsk which Putin wants to take in any deal (PA)

 

 

An agreement to freeze the frontlines where they are, but for Russia to settle for the land it has taken plus the Donetsk bonus, would probably save a couple of years fighting. If the battle for Bakhmut is an indication of how hard won Russian advances are, then a pause in the killing is a huge result for Putin who has lost 60,000 soldiers there.

 

Kramatorsk, just to the north of Donetsk, would be a harder fight. So would nearby Slaviansk. Hundreds of thousands of Russians would die in fights for those fortress cities. Slaviansk was hit by missiles last night, but knowing its residents, they’d fight invading Russians with broomsticks if they have to.

 

But if Trump can get Ukraine to agree to hand over the land – then Putin saves men and arms to reuse another day.

 

Trump broke off his meetings with Europe’s leaders to call his friend in the Kremlin... why?

The Financial Times reported that Ukraine had offered Trump a European-funded $100bn arms deal as part of a pact.

 

Trump has every incentive to hold Putin’s feet to a fire and demand he get out of Ukraine – or burn.

 

The US could join its allies in Ukraine to defend Europe, it could back its legal demands for territorial integrity, its accession to Nato and celebrate that it is a democracy not a dictatorship. It could also make money by selling weapons and exploiting Ukraine’s vast mineral deposits.

 

Trump broke off his meetings with Europe’s leaders to call his friend in the Kremlin... why?

Trump could show the Kremlin that it could lose this war – not offer Putin a war bonus of the best defended territory currently in Ukrainian hands.

 

But as he sat hanging on the telephone in a call to a man he much admires, it is clear that he’ll do nothing of that kind.

 

He’s figuring out how to betray what his country once stood for, for a man who is everything it once stood against. And he probably called that man for help to do it.

 

Trump broke off his meetings with Europe’s leaders to call his friend in the Kremlin... why?

8 minutes ago, bannork said:

Trump could show the Kremlin that it could lose this war

 

Except Russia could never lose this war of course. It's simply impossible.

 

Leaving aside that the Ukraine's economy is even smaller than Russia's, that it has even less manpower than Russia, if, unlike the actual situation now, Ukraine were to ever start winning conventional warfare the Russians would simply deploy a tactical nuclear weapon on Ukraine, which is not a  NATO member.

 

So no matter what happens, Russia is guaranteed to win this war. Which is why the limited demand for Donbass was so reaosnable. No doubt on account of the great affection Putin has for Trump.

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

Except Russia could never lose this war of course. It's simply impossible.

 

Leaving aside that the Ukraine's economy is even smaller than Russia's, that it has even less manpower than Russia, if, unlike the actual situation now, Ukraine were to ever start winning conventional warfare the Russians would simply deploy a tactical nuclear weapon on Ukraine, which is not a  NATO member.

 

So no matter what happens, Russia is guaranteed to win this war. Which is why the limited demand for Donbass was so reaosnable. No doubt on account of the great affection Putin has for Trump.

I don't accept your premise that Ukraine will lose this war. 

This is Putin's war and his removal or demise, further collapse of the Russian economy, increased disruption of Russian infrastructure, Russian airports closed, bombed, etc could easily fuel desire to cease the war.

If Russia did employ a tactical nuclear weapon on Ukraine, well, let's see what happens after that.

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

simply deploy a tactical nuclear weapon on Ukraine, which is not a  NATO member.

 

So no matter what happens, Russia is guaranteed to win this war. Which is why the limited demand for Donbass was so reaosnable.

Spoken like a true mafia boss thug, not a Russian are you by chance?

43 minutes ago, bannork said:

An agreement to freeze the frontlines where they are, but for Russia to settle for the land it has taken plus the Donetsk bonus, would probably save a couple of years fighting. If the battle for Bakhmut is an indication of how hard won Russian advances are, then a pause in the killing is a huge result for Putin who has lost 60,000 soldiers there.

 

Kramatorsk, just to the north of Donetsk, would be a harder fight. So would nearby Slaviansk. Hundreds of thousands of Russians would die in fights for those fortress cities. Slaviansk was hit by missiles last night, but knowing its residents, they’d fight invading Russians with broomsticks if they have to.

 

But if Trump can get Ukraine to agree to hand over the land – then Putin saves men and arms to reuse another day.

 

Trump broke off his meetings with Europe’s leaders to call his friend in the Kremlin... why?

There are thousands of voluntary fighters waiting in Korea to fill the gaps. So the war can go on.

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Except Russia could never lose this war of course. It's simply impossible.

It is hard for some to understand, that Russia alreay has lost.

The 3-day "special operation" is so far on day 1273.

 

In european Forums russian trolls said this from the beginning, that Ukraine is lost.

3 and a half years later, the democracy of Ukaine is still alive. And will survive the terroristic assaults from the "oh so fantastic and unbeatable russian army".

 

Forget it. Russia will sink for a very long time in to a deep dark hole.

 

Or as the orange narcisst in the White House would name it - a sh..-hole country. 

 

 

3 hours ago, bannork said:

I don't accept your premise that Ukraine will lose this war. 

This is Putin's war and his removal or demise, further collapse of the Russian economy, increased disruption of Russian infrastructure, Russian airports closed, bombed, etc could easily fuel desire to cease the war.

If Russia did employ a tactical nuclear weapon on Ukraine, well, let's see what happens after that.

 

This is what Hitler was hoping in his bunker, that Stalin would die. If that's you're best hope, then I don't think Ukraine has much hope.

 

This notion that the Russians would roll over if Putin were to die is based on ignorance of the Russian Psyche. They would see things through to the end. 

 

If Russia were forced to deploy a nuclear device on Ukraine, the West would not retaliate with nuclear weapons. Because it knows that would be the end of the world, including their world.

3 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Spoken like a true mafia boss thug, not a Russian are you by chance?

 

Thank you . You can call me Don Cameroni.

 

Who's to say where I'm from? Or where I'm going? Many have speculated and paid a high price.

7 hours ago, theblether said:

However - I'm stunned at one genius turn by Trump which if it comes off will make all the haters look stupid. 

 

again. you forgot the word again.

36 minutes ago, Schoggibueb said:

the democracy of Ukaine is still alive.

They have freedom and elections there?

4 hours ago, Schoggibueb said:

Trump has made extraordinary concessions to Russia in exchange for nothing at all. Russia has repaid him by continuing the war in Ukraine and mocking him on state-controlled television.

 

What are those concessions? Just by meeting Putin in Alaska, Trump ended more than three years of Western diplomatic isolation of the Kremlin.

By shaking hands with an indicted war criminal, Trump signaled that the killings, the torture, the abductions in Ukraine do not matter.

Even the choice of Alaska was a concession, and an odd one. Russians, including major figures in state media, routinely claim Alaska for Russia

Inviting people who claim your territory inside your main military base on that territory to discuss a war of aggression they started without inviting anyone representing the country they invaded – well, that is just about as far as a foreign-policy fantasy can go.

 

 

 

Trump has tryed his very best to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in my view.we have gone from a nation using less than 5% of our defense budget supporting a nation fighting an invasion of looting murdering raping apartment bombing animals.Now we have a (president) who try’s to humiliate the leader of a nation under siege by putins killers does everything he can to get them to surrender shives our allies in the guts at every opportunity……sorry I’m not buying it trumps a tool and a liability to democracy and trade in my view.personally I think trump and Putin are birds of a feather except putin is smarter and alot more vicious,trumps more interested in power and money.its going to be an interesting few days that’s for sure.

8 hours ago, theblether said:

The proposed Zelensky and Putin face-to-face summit. If Trump arranges that it will destroy the entire "Putin won in Alaska" narrative. 

 

It puts the entire imbroglio exactly where it should be - between the Russian and Ukranian delegation. 

 

I stand with Ukraine and support the Ukrainian people's right to free themselves from the slavery imposed on them first by the Mongols, then by the tsars, the communists, and now by Putin.

I'm also not a Trump fan. Frankly, I think he lacks the moral standing necessary to represent the American people and hold the highest office in the country.

However, judging by the reactions of Zelensky and European leaders, Trump seems to be close to a major achievement. Probably not a just peace, but something he can be proud of, and so can we.

. 

 

I'm tired of seeing young Ukrainians die for a piece of land. In the West, land has lost much of its value. People are the main resource of developed countries. People, their knowledge, their potential for innovation, their ability to generate value as individual contributors and as part of a team.

Land is the only precious resource of miserable countries like Russia. Their only exports are oil and gas, minerals, raw materials, more raw materials, and commodities, as well as weapons of mass destruction, the only things Russian industry excels at.

My message to Ukrainians after three years of war is: "Hang on, young people, build a future together with your Western friends, and let Russia shag the land where the sun never shines... Russia has paid a staggering price (1,000,000 victims) to increase its land mass by less than 1%. It's a price only an underdeveloped country like Russia would be willing to pay for such a paltry reward."

I can't help but appreciate Trump's sincere and unwavering efforts to reach a peace agreement. And I wish him success.

 

But I disagree that the whole "imbroglio" is just a matter between Russia and Ukraine. There was a time, not long ago, that Ukraine hold the third largest nuclear arsenal after Russia and the US.

The Budapest Memorandum is a series of political agreements signed in Budapest, Hungary, on December 5, 1994, by Ukraine, Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom among the others. These agreements provided security assurances to Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan in connection with their decisions to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as non-nuclear-weapon states. In exchange for these assurances, the three countries agreed to transfer their inherited Soviet nuclear weapons to Russia for dismantling.

Now we know that whatever assurance Russia gives is just a joke. What it is not yet clear is if also the US is a clown on the same level as Russia. My opinion is no, the US is no clown. Rather, just like Winstons Churchill said, "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing, after they have tried everything else".

And I think Trump is genuinely trying to do the right thing here.

 

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

This is what Hitler was hoping in his bunker, that Stalin would die. If that's you're best hope, then I don't think Ukraine has much hope.

 

This notion that the Russians would roll over if Putin were to die is based on ignorance of the Russian Psyche. They would see things through to the end. 

 

If Russia were forced to deploy a nuclear device on Ukraine, the West would not retaliate with nuclear weapons. Because it knows that would be the end of the world, including their world.

Wait and see. 

What's this nonsense about Russia being forced to deploy a nuclear device!

1 minute ago, bannork said:

Wait and see. 

What's this nonsense about Russia being forced to deploy a nuclear device!

 

It's  just a theoretical, if Ukraine would start winning on the battlefield, which is not the case now. Just as a "what if", then Russia always has that option to deploy a nuclear device.

 

So there is no way Ukraine could win this war.

14 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

Ukrainian people's

Russians with an extra letter in their alphabet. 

52 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

They have freedom and elections there?

 I usually ignore your comments which add zero value to the convesration. This one is no exception, but it is so short it caught my eye.

 

Your lack of knowledge of the world is embarrassing.
There are countless constitutions of democratic countries that suspend elections during wartime.
And the war between Russia and Ukraine is a war, despite the Russian press's inane efforts to call it a "special operation."
 

I would also add that no political opponents have died in Ukrainian prisons. And the only Ukrainian politicians poisoned (one with cyanide and the other with dioxin) were poisoned by Russians: Stepan Andriyovich Bandera (1959) and Viktor Yushchenko (2004).

 

Only a poor soul educated by the Soviets could ignore this reality.
And to paraphrase what they say about bargirls in Thailand, it was easy to take the Russians out of the Soviets. The difficult thing is to remove the Soviets from within the Russians. 

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It's  just a theoretical, if Ukraine would start winning on the battlefield, which is not the case now. Just as a "what if", then Russia always has that option to deploy a nuclear device.

 

So there is no way Ukraine could win this war.

Once again I disagree. Once Russia use a nuclear weapon, they'll have the world against them. Perhaps, yes perhaps even the great appeaser and Putin lover, Donald himself.

Then the proverbial might really hit the fan.

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

they'll have the world against them. Perhaps, yes perhaps even the great appeaser and Putin lover, Donald himself.

Then the proverbial might really hit the fan.

 

No, because even Donald Trump is not crazy enough to risk a nuclear war with Russia.

 

It would never happen.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

...then Russia always has that option to deploy a nuclear device.

 

So there is no way Ukraine could win this war.

Yeah, this fairy tale is now told since over 3.5 years. 

 

The last thing that Russia would do is to "deploy a nuclear device". After that Russia would be dematerialized. Immediatly. GB and France also have "big red buttons". USA can then join or not, doesen't matter.

 

Nobody in Europe cares anymore about this over and over repeated "menace". A worn out and meanwhile useless speach of russian trolls.

 

Bring a newer one than that empty threat. 

4 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

 I usually ignore your comments which add zero value to the convesration. This one is no exception, but it is so short it caught my eye.

 

Your lack of knowledge of the world is embarrassing.
There are countless constitutions of democratic countries that suspend elections during wartime.
And the war between Russia and Ukraine is a war, despite the Russian press's inane efforts to call it a "special operation."
 

I would also add that no political opponents have died in Ukrainian prisons. And the only Ukrainian politicians poisoned (one with cyanide and the other with dioxin) were poisoned by Russians: Stepan Andriyovich Bandera (1959) and Viktor Yushchenko (2004).

 

Only a poor soul educated by the Soviets could ignore this reality.
And to paraphrase what they say about bargirls in Thailand, it was easy to take the Russians out of the Soviets. The difficult thing is to remove the Soviets from within the Russians. 

So you acknowledge that there are no elections. Got it. Just like Russia.