1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Exactly. 

Thank you.

Posts with derogatory nicknames, intentional misspellings, or personal remarks will be removed. Spell names correctly for all sides of the debate.

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

News flash: Who pushed it.

 

Trump

39 minutes ago, mogandave said:

You are truly clueless 

Nope its fact, easy to look up. sorry if it hurt your fragile ego. 

36 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Exactly. He made a political point blaming MAGA. Obviously from your post you either don't understand this or it's deliberate diversion.

Or it's actually accurate 

4 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Or it's actually accurate 

Ok. A MAGA man dating a man who wants to be a women and is into trans rights and furries is MAGA.  There's a bit of a contradiction in this wouldn't you think? 

Some posts and replies have been removed as per the following:

 

28. You will not make changes to messages quoted from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. Do not shorten any post in a way that alters the context of the original post. Do not change the formatting of the post you are quoting.

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

You seem to have a misunderstanding of "sheeple". It was people from the right that pushed agaist the vaccine mandates and propoganda from the left. The sheeple went out and got several jabs, wore masks and stood 6 feet apart as the MSM. CDC etc. told them to. SAFE and EFFECTIVE.

And those who were sheeple of antivax nutters died disproportionately....🙂

10 minutes ago, candide said:

And those who were sheeple of antivax nutters died disproportionately....🙂

Really? And by anti-vax I assume you still can't differentiate between anti-vax and anti mRNA jabs. I understand. MSM never differentiated either. Take the mRNA jab or you're an evil asnti-vaxxer putting everyone at risk. This was the message and it's undeniable.

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

he sheeple did what they were told to do.

Since you are totally incapable of answering a question I will ask it again in a very simple format that even you might just possibly understand;

What is your definition/explanation of the term "sheeple"?

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

News flash: Who pushed it.

 

The Branch Covidians were quite something during the COVID era.

1 minute ago, DezLez said:

Since you are totally incapable of answering a question I will ask it again in a very simple format that even you might just possibly understand;

What is your definition/explanation of the term "sheeple"?

People that believe a narritive pushed by governents and organisations that is also pushed by the Main Stream Media.

Here's an example:

 

42 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Ok. A MAGA man dating a man who wants to be a women and is into trans rights and furries is MAGA.  There's a bit of a contradiction in this wouldn't you think? 

You obviously aren't up on the facts of the case. You bought the whole bs news propaganda on this issue didn't you. 

3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

You obviously aren't up on the facts of the case. You bought the whole bs news propaganda on this issue didn't you. 

You are truly clueless 

1 minute ago, Dan O said:

You obviously aren't up on the facts of the case. You bought the whole bs news propaganda on this issue didn't you. 

Why don't you update me then? Sourced of course. Eagely awaiting this new info to bring me up to date. I'm hoping it will be something of substance.

1 hour ago, Mike_Hunt said:

 

Here are some of the methodological issues and criticisms that have been raised (or that one could raise) with the paper “Excess Death Rates for Republicans and Democrats During the COVID-19 Pandemic” by Wallace, Goldsmith-Pinkham & Schwartz, NBER / JAMA etc. (NBER)

---

What the paper does

Before talking about limitations, just a quick recap so we know what is being done:

• Uses linked data from voter registration or primary-participation (to infer party affiliation) from Florida and Ohio in 2017. (NBER)

• Mortality data from 2018-2021. (NBER)

• Compares “excess deaths” (deaths above baseline, adjusting for age, seasonality etc.), for registered Republicans vs Democrats. (JAMA Network)

• Finds that after vaccines were widely available, excess death rates for Republicans are significantly higher than for Democrats. (JAMA Network)

---

Key criticisms / methodological issues

Here are issues raised in commentaries, plus additional ones that logically follow.

1. Ecological fallacy and use of aggregate / area-level vaccination rates

   • Although the study uses individual-level voter registration data, for vaccination status it does not have individual vaccination data. Rather, it uses county-level vaccination rates as a contextual variable. (JAMA Network)

   • This can lead to ecological fallacy: attributing to individuals something inferred from the average in their county. In this case, one can’t be sure that the individuals who died (or whose excess death is being counted) are unvaccinated, just because their county has low vaccination rates. There might be compositional differences, etc.

2. Measurement of political affiliation differences between states

   • The way “party affiliation” is measured differs between Ohio and Florida:

     • In Florida, it’s from party registration. (CIDRAP)

     • In Ohio, it’s based on participation in a party primary election in recent years. That’s a different type of measure: it reflects both registration/affiliation and whether someone voted in primaries. That could introduce bias (e.g. by voter participation, by interest, by health etc.). (CIDRAP)

3. Confounding variables and omitted variable bias

   • There are many potential confounders that might differ by political affiliation and also relate to mortality (or excess deaths). For example: baseline health status (comorbidities), socioeconomic status, race/ethnicity, access to health care, health behavior (beyond vaccination), occupation, urban/rural differences etc. If these are not fully controlled for, then part (or all) of the observed difference might be due to these other factors.

   • The authors do adjust for age, seasonality, state, county, etc. But some critics argue that residual confounding remains. (JAMA Network)

4. Causality vs association

   • The design is observational / cross-sectional for much of the analysis. Therefore, the results show associations, not causal effects. E.g., we can’t definitively say that being Republican caused higher excess death; it may be correlated with behaviors or other risk factors (including vaccination, but also non-COVID causes of death) that are themselves the direct cause.

   • The paper suggests that vaccination differences might explain a lot of the gap ‒ but they do not have individual vaccination status, so that mechanism remains speculative. (JAMA Network)

5. Biases in the baseline / estimation of “expected deaths”

   • Estimation of “excess deaths” requires a model of what would have been expected absent the pandemic. How that baseline is built (which years included, how seasonality is modeled, how demographic changes are accounted for) can strongly affect the estimated excess.

   • If Republicans vs Democrats differ in demographic trends over time, or in migration, or in age structure changes, etc., and those are not fully accounted, the baseline itself might misrepresent what would have been expected.

6. Generalizability / selection bias

   • The study is for only two U.S. states (Florida and Ohio). The patterns there may not generalize to other states. Floridian and Ohioan populations, their political makeup, health systems etc. are specific.

   • Also, the study is limited to registered voters / primary participation lists. Some portion of the population is unregistered, or does not vote, or votes in ways not recorded / tracked, etc. So results apply only to those with measurable party affiliation in the data.

7. Temporal issues and vaccination rollout timing

   • The timing of vaccine availability, rollout, variant waves, public health policies etc. differ by location and over time. The study divides before and after “all adults eligible for vaccine” (May 1, 2021) in this case, but there may be lags in uptake, availability, policy restrictions, supply, etc. So “after vaccines available” does not mean “everyone who wanted one got it” or “vaccination coverage is high”.

8. Potential bias from missing data or misclassification

   • Death causes are not separated; some excess deaths may be non-COVID causes (e.g. delayed care, overdose, etc.), which may be differentially distributed by political affiliation, geography, economic status etc. If Republicans and Democrats differ in health care access or non-COVID mortality risk, differences in excess deaths could reflect those differences rather than COVID or vaccination per se.

   • Also, misclassification of party affiliation: people might have changed affiliation, might be misregistered, or participation (Ohio primary vote) may be a noisy signal of affiliation.

9. Heterogeneity across subgroups

   • The effect size appears to vary significantly by age group, state, and county vaccination rate. Some critics point out that in Florida the differences are smaller / not statistically significant than in Ohio. (JAMA Network)

   • Also, for some age groups the differences are non-significant. (JAMA Network)

10. Interpretation / attribution

    • The study sometimes suggests that vaccination differences may be explanatory, but it’s tempting to over-interpret. Especially in media coverage, there’s risk of inferring stronger causal claims than the data supports.

    • Also, other public health measures, masking, social distancing, local policies, individual behaviors, access to health care etc., may mediate or confound the observed associations.

---

Specific criticisms raised in published commentaries

One commentary in JAMA Internal Medicine, Discrepancies in Estimating Excess Death by Political Party Affiliation During the COVID-19 Pandemic by O’Mahen etc. raises some points: (JAMA Network)

They list 5 limitations; among them:

• The ecological fallacy via use of aggregated vaccination rates instead of individual data. (JAMA Network)

• Potential underestimation or mismeasurement of true differences due to differences in how party affiliation is measured in Ohio vs Florida. (JAMA Network)

---

I

There are other studies, for example this one:

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12432-x

 

Of course, no methodology is 100% reliable, but these two studies have been considered good enough to be published in peer-reviwed journals. Since they have not been contradicted by other studies, they are not yet in the graveyard of dead theories.

 

It also makes sense as vaccines reduced death rates and vaccination rates were lower among Republican than Democrats.

@Dan O? Where's the update. You posted "You obviously aren't up on the facts of the case. You bought the whole bs news propaganda on this issue didn't you." Can you back this? My guess is you can't.

On 10/1/2025 at 6:20 PM, blaze master said:

 

I see nasty mocking vids pics and  comments on here daily by people on the left. 

 

OMG....we are talking about the 'leader' of free world behaving the same way as the morons on here.......can you not for one moment grasp that? Dear God!!

On 10/1/2025 at 7:31 PM, Fact said:

Yet, we are still better than the UK. 

 

Wow....The master of razor sharp wit and ready repartee......guess with that scything response above you are a redcap Yank.

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

OMG....we are talking about the 'leader' of free world behaving the same way as the morons on here.......can you not for one moment grasp that? Dear God!!

 What? Maybe you could tease this out a bit. Morons I've seen on here support Hamas and call someone who was elected to office that said he'd close the borders, deport illegals, get men out of womens sports, crack down on crime that the "progressive" left judges don't etc. Hitler. One wonders who the morons are.

15 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Wow....The master of razor sharp wit and ready repartee......guess with that scything response above you are a redcap Yank.

You're welcome.  

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

 What? Maybe you could tease this out a bit. Morons I've seen on here support Hamas and call someone who was elected to office that said he'd close the borders, deport illegals, get men out of womens sports, crack down on crime that the "progressive" left judges don't etc. Hitler. One wonders who the morons are.

Odd I haven’t seen anyone supporting hammas not a one are you conflating a bit?furthermore you might keep in mind Benito Mussolini did pretty much the same thing and look what that got Italy……your pidepiper is all theater and anti democracy to boot it is what it is …..he’s also cognitively fading fast.(never was that smart to begin with just borne into wealth)

6 minutes ago, Tug said:

Odd I haven’t seen anyone supporting hammas not a one are you conflating a bit?furthermore you might keep in mind Benito Mussolini did pretty much the same thing and look what that got Italy……your pidepiper is all theater and anti democracy to boot it is what it is …..he’s also cognitively fading fast.(never was that smart to begin with just borne into wealth)

25 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

 What? Maybe you could tease this out a bit. Morons I've seen on here support Hamas and call someone who was elected to office that said he'd close the borders, deport illegals, get men out of womens sports, crack down on crime that the "progressive" left judges don't etc. Hitler. One wonders who the morons are.

 

Immaterial..........you have totally missed the point of my post.

 

The original poster attempted to justify Trump's atrocious behaviour by saying it was no different to people who post on here.....ridiculous defense.

On 10/1/2025 at 5:52 AM, riclag said:

He mastered the art of AI. Nobody markets Dem  follie  better than Trump !

The Dem /Gop  boring discourse of blaming each other for the Shutdown  put into a AI mock muse,with the Dem crying foul .     Priceless.

The video went viral.

Oh I dono know about that old Gavin newsome is got your deity tied up in an knot probably enraged throwing things and just spazzing out lmao 🤣 personally I’d love to see some AI videos of trump being interrogated by real hero’s of our history on some of his more famous betrayals like John Basalone interrogating him on his disparaging remarks about Jhon McCain,or perhaps President Eisenhower could interrogate him on his stance on NATO and his betrayal of Ukraine….Id love to see some well done AI responses along those lines.kinda keep drawing attention to the pidpiper you guys are following.

1 hour ago, candide said:

There are other studies, for example this one:

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12432-x

 

Of course, no methodology is 100% reliable, but these two studies have been considered good enough to be published in peer-reviwed journals. Since they have not been contradicted by other studies, they are not yet in the graveyard of dead theories.

 

It also makes sense as vaccines reduced death rates and vaccination rates were lower among Republican than Democrats.

Did they have the vac and political affiliation on the death certificate?

13 minutes ago, Tug said:

Oh I dono know about that old Gavin newsome is got your deity tied up in an knot probably

I'd like to see Gavin run for POTUS so he can defend his dismal record. 

36 minutes ago, Tug said:

Odd I haven’t seen anyone supporting hammas not a one are you conflating a bit?furthermore you might keep in mind Benito Mussolini did pretty much the same thing and look what that got Italy……your pidepiper is all theater and anti democracy to boot it is what it is …..he’s also cognitively fading fast.(never was that smart to begin with just borne into wealth)

If you support Palestine you support Hamas. 

7 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

If you support Palestine you support Hamas. 

Bull<deleted>.