3 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Right. White guilt explains why Europeans are unhappy with Trump's economic policies? How does that work?

Huh? I dont understand your posts. White guilt explains why the west is self destructing

2 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Huh? I dont understand your posts. White guilt explains why the west is self destructing

So, economic sabotage by Trump isn't the reason?

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

So, economic sabotage by Trump isn't the reason?

Thats your wish mr soros

Forcing China's hand?

Here's the more likely outcome.  This will have the same affect as EU sanctions did against Russia - in an attempt to "punish" Russia the EU has ended up de-industrializing itself and blowing up the EU economy.  The 100% tariffs levied against China on top of existing tariffs will ultimately end up crashing the US economy.  

I won't argue this opinion, especially on this forum.  Wait for 2 years and watch the 2026 Mid-Term elections to get a feel of how effective tariffs were.  As Jim Carville so aptly stated during the Bill Clinton campaign, "It's the economy stupid."  In 2026 and 2028 - it WILL be the economy.

2 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Thats your wish mr soros

In other words, you have no rational reply to offer.

12 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Thank you for sharing with us the alternative reality you inhabit:

 

"Zebra mussels probably arrived in the Great Lakes in the 1980s via ballast water that was discharged by large ships from Europe. They have spread rapidly throughout the Great Lakes region and into the large rivers of the eastern Mississippi drainage. They have also been found in Texas, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and California."

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-zebra-mussels-and-why-should-we-care-about-them

 

The Southern Pine Beetle: The Tree Killer

The southern pine beetle was first recorded in the southeastern United States in the late 1700s. Though they are originally native to the southeast, warming winter temperatures have allowed the beetle's range to expand up the east coast in recent decades. 

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/the-southern-pine-beetle-the-tree-killer.htm

 

As a rule, Chinese solar panels are as good as any others on the market. China produces around 80% of all solar panels, so like any product, there are cheaper offerings from less well-known companies.

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/sourcing-solar-are-chinese-solar-panels-any-good

 

My sloppiness in referencing the incorrect beetles that were from China and found in Chinese imported wood products and pallets;

- Brown fir beetles- aka the Douglas Fir killers

- Brown Marmorated Stink Bug - destroys soybeans, fruit trees, corn and grape vines.

- Japanese pine sawyer beetle (Monochamus alternatus): Suspected infestations in furniture  imports from China. Intercepted and stopped by Canadian Food Inspection Agency (which is tasked with intercepting invasive insects in Canada) in conjunction with USDA at Port of Vancouver, and Los Angeles. It is dangerous and deadly because it  is the reservoir and carrier for roundworms which destroy  pine trees.

- Emerald ash borer: It has decimated the ash trees of North America.

Khapra beetles: destroy grain. Even a simple infestation can result in destruction of an entire inventory because of the toxic byproduct that they create.

- Chinese variety of gypsy moth - destroys trees by defoliation.

- Asian longhorned beetle: First discovered in Ontario in 2003,it has laid waste to Canada's valuable hardwood forests.

-Spotted lanternfly:  USDA has identified multiple infestations which destroys food crops.

-Velvet longhorned beetle 

- Longhorned beetle

 

 

Feel free to critique these. 🙂

 

Do you want to know some of the  awful invasive Chinese plant species that have been sent to North America  in Chinese origin consumer goods? Chinese privet, Tree of Heaven, kudzu, Chinese silver grass, and Chinese wisteria are invasive species that have pushed out disease and fire resistant local species and destroyed North American  pastureland and meadowlands.

 

Yes, the Zebra mussel is  native to Russian and Ukrainian aquatic systems. However, the bilge water of Chinese cargo vessels is now associated with the transport of zebra mussels. Initial infestations were indeed associated with European  transatlantic  ships, but there were measures introduced to prohibit the dumping of bilge water. European vessels followed the protocols. Chinese vessels did not. Chinese vessels which are a major marne carrier still dump untreated raw sewage from their vessels into international waters. There is a reason why Canada has been rushing to build arctic patrol vessels and one of them t is to keep Chinese vessels and their contaminated bilge water from  pushing their way into the Northern arctic passage and destroying the  sensitive local ecosystem.

 

Trump is doing both Mexico and Canada and EU a service if he reduces or slows down Chinese exports. The Chinese cargo vessels bring the fentanyl to Mexico. And the Chinese cargo vessels are bringing their environmental destruction to Canada. Please don't tell me that Chinese vessels have the same pollution reduction systems that Western vessels have. China, India, Russia, Pakistan and others all dump their crap at see and have engine exhausts that taint the air,

1 hour ago, angryguy said:

Its an alternate reality that china makes inferior products? Maybe youve been living in thailand so long you wouldnt know what makes for quality anymore

 

Do you understand how this international commerce thing works?

 

China has tens of thousands of factories.

US corporation sends buyers to China to find cheap stuff to stock dollar and bigly box stores.

Buyer visits multiple factories.

Factory owners offer range of products.

Buyer says too expensive, goes to next factory for cheaper product.

Next factory offers cheaper goods, but still not cheap enough.

Buyer continues visiting factories until one found that will produce cheapest product with cheapest materials with cheapest packaging.

Want better product?  Costs more.

 

You get what you ask for.

 

EDIT......i was off by a few orders of MAGAtude:

 

China operates more factories than any other country, with estimates suggesting over 1 million factories across various industries. This extensive manufacturing network is a key factor in China's status as the world's largest manufacturer.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

My sloppiness in referencing the incorrect beetles that were from China and found in Chinese imported wood products and pallets;

- Brown fir beetles- aka the Douglas Fir killers

- Brown Marmorated Stink Bug - destroys soybeans, fruit trees, corn and grape vines.

- Japanese pine sawyer beetle (Monochamus alternatus): Suspected infestations in furniture  imports from China. Intercepted and stopped by Canadian Food Inspection Agency (which is tasked with intercepting invasive insects in Canada) in conjunction with USDA at Port of Vancouver, and Los Angeles. It is dangerous and deadly because it  is the reservoir and carrier for roundworms which destroy  pine trees.

- Emerald ash borer: It has decimated the ash trees of North America.

Khapra beetles: destroy grain. Even a simple infestation can result in destruction of an entire inventory because of the toxic byproduct that they create.

- Chinese variety of gypsy moth - destroys trees by defoliation.

- Asian longhorned beetle: First discovered in Ontario in 2003,it has laid waste to Canada's valuable hardwood forests.

-Spotted lanternfly:  USDA has identified multiple infestations which destroys food crops.

-Velvet longhorned beetle 

- Longhorned beetle

 

 

Feel free to critique these. 🙂

 

Do you want to know some of the  awful invasive Chinese plant species that have been sent to North America  in Chinese origin consumer goods? Chinese privet, Tree of Heaven, kudzu, Chinese silver grass, and Chinese wisteria are invasive species that have pushed out disease and fire resistant local species and destroyed North American  pastureland and meadowlands.

 

Yes, the Zebra mussel is  native to Russian and Ukrainian aquatic systems. However, the bilge water of Chinese cargo vessels is now associated with the transport of zebra mussels. Initial infestations were indeed associated with European  transatlantic  ships, but there were measures introduced to prohibit the dumping of bilge water. European vessels followed the protocols. Chinese vessels did not. Chinese vessels which are a major marne carrier still dump untreated raw sewage from their vessels into international waters. There is a reason why Canada has been rushing to build arctic patrol vessels and one of them t is to keep Chinese vessels and their contaminated bilge water from  pushing their way into the Northern arctic passage and destroying the  sensitive local ecosystem.

 

Trump is doing both Mexico and Canada and EU a service if he reduces or slows down Chinese exports. The Chinese cargo vessels bring the fentanyl to Mexico. And the Chinese cargo vessels are bringing their environmental destruction to Canada. Please don't tell me that Chinese vessels have the same pollution reduction systems that Western vessels have. China, India, Russia, Pakistan and others all dump their crap at see and have engine exhausts that taint the air,

 

15 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

My sloppiness in referencing the incorrect beetles that were from China and found in Chinese imported wood products and pallets;

- Brown fir beetles- aka the Douglas Fir killers

- Brown Marmorated Stink Bug - destroys soybeans, fruit trees, corn and grape vines.

- Japanese pine sawyer beetle (Monochamus alternatus): Suspected infestations in furniture  imports from China. Intercepted and stopped by Canadian Food Inspection Agency (which is tasked with intercepting invasive insects in Canada) in conjunction with USDA at Port of Vancouver, and Los Angeles. It is dangerous and deadly because it  is the reservoir and carrier for roundworms which destroy  pine trees.

- Emerald ash borer: It has decimated the ash trees of North America.

Khapra beetles: destroy grain. Even a simple infestation can result in destruction of an entire inventory because of the toxic byproduct that they create.

- Chinese variety of gypsy moth - destroys trees by defoliation.

- Asian longhorned beetle: First discovered in Ontario in 2003,it has laid waste to Canada's valuable hardwood forests.

-Spotted lanternfly:  USDA has identified multiple infestations which destroys food crops.

-Velvet longhorned beetle 

- Longhorned beetle

 

 

Feel free to critique these. 🙂

 

Do you want to know some of the  awful invasive Chinese plant species that have been sent to North America  in Chinese origin consumer goods? Chinese privet, Tree of Heaven, kudzu, Chinese silver grass, and Chinese wisteria are invasive species that have pushed out disease and fire resistant local species and destroyed North American  pastureland and meadowlands.

 

Yes, the Zebra mussel is  native to Russian and Ukrainian aquatic systems. However, the bilge water of Chinese cargo vessels is now associated with the transport of zebra mussels. Initial infestations were indeed associated with European  transatlantic  ships, but there were measures introduced to prohibit the dumping of bilge water. European vessels followed the protocols. Chinese vessels did not. Chinese vessels which are a major marne carrier still dump untreated raw sewage from their vessels into international waters. There is a reason why Canada has been rushing to build arctic patrol vessels and one of them t is to keep Chinese vessels and their contaminated bilge water from  pushing their way into the Northern arctic passage and destroying the  sensitive local ecosystem.

 

Trump is doing both Mexico and Canada and EU a service if he reduces or slows down Chinese exports. The Chinese cargo vessels bring the fentanyl to Mexico. And the Chinese cargo vessels are bringing their environmental destruction to Canada. Please don't tell me that Chinese vessels have the same pollution reduction systems that Western vessels have. China, India, Russia, Pakistan and others all dump their crap at see and have engine exhausts that taint the air,

How many of these pests predate the advent of modern trade with China?

Does China have pests imported from North America

I know at least some of those plant pests were purposely imported into America

Isn't it a fact that invasive species are a worldwide problem with nations from all over the world infecting, so to speak, each other?

And finally, has the Trump administration increased funding to protect against invasive species, or cut funding?

2 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

 

How many of these pests predate the advent of modern trade with China?

Does China have pests imported from North America

I know at least some of those plant pests were purposely imported into America

Isn't it a fact that invasive species are a worldwide problem with nations from all over the world infecting, so to speak, each other?

And finally, has the Trump administration increased funding to protect against invasive species, or cut funding?

 

What plant or insect pests from Canada and the USA infest  China today? I am open to learn something news.

5 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

What plant or insect pests from Canada and the USA infest  China today? I am open to learn something news.

Here's a link:

https://apfisn.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/China.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

3 are listed starting on page 7

130% tariff on Chinese goods.  
MAGA and the Right cheers.   🎉
In the meanwhile, US stocks and crypto-currency puke at the news.  🤮
MAGA and the Right (and the Left and every one else) wakes up Monday Eastern Time and looks at their stock portfolios  

 

 

"Today is historic. For decades, American international economic policy has been subordinated to the industrial and trade policies of other countries. America had pursued a principle of economic efficiency at all costs – even where it meant the American industrial base was off-shored and our workers had to compete against unfair trade. Our trade deficit in goods ballooned to a massive $1.2 trillion in 2024, which reflected a dangerous decline in U.S. manufacturing and manufacturing jobs.

President Trump is reversing all of that. Over the past few months, the President’s tariff program and the ensuing 'Trump Round' of trade negotiations have accomplished what the World Trade Organization and multilateral negotiations have not been able to achieve at scale: expansive new market access for U.S. exporters, increased tariffs to defend critical American industries, and trillions of new manufacturing investments and purchases of goods that will create great American jobs and help reassert American leadership in key strategic sectors. Many trading partners have been constructive, bold, and visionary in their commitment to this fundamental change initiated by the President. Global trade is now being organized around the principles of fair and balanced trade – all pursued in support of countries’ economic and national security. This new trading system will lower the U.S. trade deficit and lead to better outcomes for American workers, their families, and their communities. In the coming weeks, this new system will begin to take shape, as the Trump Administration works with trading partners on a common path to shared prosperity."

-U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer

https://ustr.gov/about/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2025/july/ambassador-greer-issues-statement-president-trumps-vision-new-system-international-trade

22 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

What plant or insect pests from Canada and the USA infest  China today? I am open to learn something news.

 

Google is your "pengyou"!

 

Of the 403 invasive plant species in China, most are from North America (237 species) and South America (201 species), then from Asia (65 species), Africa (62 species), Europe (58 species), and Oceania (6 species).

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468265922001226

3 hours ago, angryguy said:

That means alot of people should be celebrating in my thread seeing as the majority here seem to be anti west

No, it does not mean that at all. The only thing it means, is that most of us can hear/see and after compare, examining, draw conclusions and see things in a wider lens. You, on the hand, only have that small on-eyed monocular that gives you a distorted and very narrow view of the world.
 

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

And now.............

 

China hits US ships with retaliatory port fees before trade talks

 

China has hit U.S.-owned vessels docking in the country with tit-for-tat port fees, in response to the American government’s planned port fees on Chinese ships, expanding a string of retaliatory measures before trade talks between U.S. President Donald Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping.

....

They would take effect on Oct. 14, the same day when the United States is due to start imposing port fees on Chinese vessels.

 

https://apnews.com/article/china-us-port-fees-a67996522d4705e663e37515fa45baf5

 

 

Hey!

 

That's not fair!

 

We're supposed to be winning!

 

The bigliest winning!

 

This is a meaningless action by the Chinese. There are hardly any US flagged ships anywhere in the world. Most fly under a foreign registry such as Panama.

1 hour ago, OutofLondon said:

Yes really. Trump is crapping himself because you yanks need China's rare earth metals way more than they need your trade.

 

You might want to do some reading there sport, America has plenty of access to REM without dealing with china. 

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Why China Built 162 Square Miles of Solar Panels on the World’s Highest Plateau

https://archive.ph/vuOYu

 

How much fossil fuels was used in manufacturing those solar panels? What happens when the solar panels are destroyed through time or weather? Where do you dispose of 162 square miles of solar panels with their content of hazardous and toxic materials?

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

This is a meaningless action by the Chinese. There are hardly any US flagged ships anywhere in the world. Most fly under a foreign registry such as Panama.

 

Flagged ships refer to vessels registered under a specific country's flag, which determines the legal jurisdiction and regulations they must follow. Ownership of a ship can be separate from the flag it flies, often leading to practices like "flags of convenience," where owners register their ships in countries with more favorable regulations or lower costs.https://duckduckgo.com/assets/icons/favicons/wikipedia.white.2x.png

 

 

I suppose it's just retaliatory optics, but it shirley won't improve Trump's chances of bringing shipbuilding back.

 

The US Merchant Marine now makes up just 0.2% of the world's vessels. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-america-quietly-lost-2700-ships-maritime-dominance-2021-6?op=1

 

 

38 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

This is a meaningless action by the Chinese. There are hardly any US flagged ships anywhere in the world. Most fly under a foreign registry such as Panama.

Not really meaningless. From your link.

 

"Vessels owned or operated by American companies or individuals, and ships built in the U.S. or flying the American flag, would be subjected to a 400 yuan ($56) per net ton fee per voyage if they dock in China, China’s Ministry of Transport said on Friday."

3 minutes ago, Slowhand225 said:

 

You might want to do some reading there sport, America has plenty of access to REM without dealing with china. 

You might want to do some posting there, sport — to support your disingenuous argument.
Otherwise, someone might consider it to be what it looks like — BS.

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Not really meaningless. From your link.

 

"Vessels owned or operated by American companies or individuals, and ships built in the U.S. or flying the American flag, would be subjected to a 400 yuan ($56) per net ton fee per voyage if they dock in China, China’s Ministry of Transport said on Friday."

 

What are you talking about? I didn't provide a link. But the quote you provide above is still pertinent "ships built in the US or flying the American flag" are miniscule in number. So essentially a meaningless action on the part of the Chinese.

3 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

You might want to do some posting there, sport — to support your disingenuous argument.
Otherwise, someone might consider it to be what it looks like — BS.

 

He's right. You're wrong. The US has vast reserves of raw earths. What it lacks is refining capacity.

3 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

If you're saying that Trump has staged a hold-up against most nations in the west, I'm sure that they would agree with you. But as for sustaining the west, how exactly?

It was just a blind statement that wasn't thought out very well, if anything Trump is diminishing the West and the US, on a dozen different levels. 

40 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Flagged ships refer to vessels registered under a specific country's flag, which determines the legal jurisdiction and regulations they must follow. Ownership of a ship can be separate from the flag it flies, often leading to practices like "flags of convenience," where owners register their ships in countries with more favorable regulations or lower costs.https://duckduckgo.com/assets/icons/favicons/wikipedia.white.2x.png

 

 

I suppose it's just retaliatory optics, but it shirley won't improve Trump's chances of bringing shipbuilding back.

 

The US Merchant Marine now makes up just 0.2% of the world's vessels. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-america-quietly-lost-2700-ships-maritime-dominance-2021-6?op=1

 

 

American shipbuilding has been declining for decades now, and these super dumb tariffs are certainly not going to help, when it results in an increase in the cost of steel and other commodities necessary to build ships. 

7 hours ago, angryguy said:

So he's calling out China for doing exactly what he did. Interesting. His cult followers are too ignorant or blind to see the hypocritical nature of the buffoon.... Hmmmm now thats interesting

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

American shipbuilding has been declining for decades now, and these super dumb tariffs are certainly not going to help, when it results in an increase in the cost of steel and other commodities necessary to build ships. 

 

Oh, yeah?  Well, what about this?

 

President Trump on Thursday hosted Finnish President Alexander Stubb, where the two leaders announced an agreement for the U.S. to add 11 icebreaker ships to its fleet.

 

Trump said as part of the agreement, the U.S. would purchase four icebreakers built in Finland, while seven additional ships would be constructed in the United States.

....

Stubb said Finland would deliver the first ship it is building for the U.S. in 2028. The ships are expected to be used in the Arctic to counter Russian and Chinese influence.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5547900-trump-finland-icebreakers-deal/

 

Shirley, the following Democrat regime wouldn't cancel Trump's plan to Make Finnish Shipbuilding Great Again!

21 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

You might want to do some posting there, sport — to support your disingenuous argument.
Otherwise, someone might consider it to be what it looks like — BS.

 

So you're admitting that you made it up. Noted

2 hours ago, Yagoda said:

1. China is on the brink of collapse.

2. China cannot defeat the USA in war.

3. Life can go on without cheap chinese garbage

 

 

Hard to tell about #1, because totalitarian regimes appear intact and can collapse overnight, as the USSR demonstrated. China has one advantage the USSR didn't, it's not an empire in the traditional sense and most of its population is ethnically homogenous and will respond to nationalistic appeals. For #2 all China need do is maintain a war of attrition on its home field--the Far East and Southeast Asia. It could suffer more casualties and damage and still win. Still Three Gorges is an awful juicy target. Number 3 is very true and where China is most vulnerable. How many Americans are willing to weigh their future security against purchasing cheap electronics and house goods today?

Once you're reliant on what someone else is making or a service they provide you have already lost the game. They will eventually keep squeezing you for more so they profit more. China makes almost everything now.

35 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

What are you talking about? I didn't provide a link. But the quote you provide above is still pertinent "ships built in the US or flying the American flag" are miniscule in number. So essentially a meaningless action on the part of the Chinese.

You're right in that someone else provided the link.

You're totally wrong it's meaningless, since you're omitting a major part of the text "Vessels owned or operated by American companies or individuals".

 

"Vessels owned or operated by American companies or individuals, and ships built in the U.S. or flying the American flag, would be subjected to a 400 yuan ($56) per net ton fee per voyage if they dock in China, China’s Ministry of Transport said on Friday."

18 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Hard to tell about #1, because totalitarian regimes appear intact and can collapse overnight, as the USSR demonstrated. China has one advantage the USSR didn't, it's not an empire in the traditional sense and most of its population is ethnically homogenous and will respond to nationalistic appeals. For #2 all China need do is maintain a war of attrition on its home field--the Far East and Southeast Asia. It could suffer more casualties and damage and still win. Still Three Gorges is an awful juicy target. Number 3 is very true and where China is most vulnerable. How many Americans are willing to weigh their future security against purchasing cheap electronics and house goods today?

China has burned its bridges with the American public. Folks try not to buy Chinese goods and the companies know it.

 

An ideological military force dependent on patronage and adherence to the "line" cant beat a fighting force devoid of politics. Thats why we won WW2 and "lost" in Vietnam. Thats why China will lose