33 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

 Others might have been forced fed God as children by abusive parents an turned away. I just see things as common sense, that there had to be a creator as anything else is just ridiculous.

 

I am sorry - but "common Sense" is not something that belongs in this thread!

Any religion is not 'common sense' , but a learned (or accepted) belief system.  

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

 

 

Hard to take something like a Satanic cult "founded in Shropshire" seriously.............555

now - the Truth

 

 

3 minutes ago, G Rex said:

 

I am sorry - but "common Sense" is not something that belongs in this thread!

Any religion is not 'common sense' , but a learned (or accepted) belief system.  

Believing in God is common sense. Religions are man made. Thinking the universe and everything in it just happened without a creator is foolish.That's also a learned behavior.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Believing in God is common sense. Religions are man made. Thinking the universe and everything in it just happened without a creator is foolish.That's also a learned behavior.

 

On this matter I think we will have to agree to disagree. 

43 minutes ago, connda said:

I'm sorry.  Not everyone is born with a three digit IQ.  
 

Proselytizing refers to the act of attempting to convert individuals from one religion, belief system, or ideology to another, typically through active persuasion, preaching, or dissemination of doctrine. It is derived from the Greek term *prosēlytos*, meaning "convert" or "newcomer," and is most commonly associated with religious contexts, such as missionary work in Christianity, Islam, or other faiths.

Dictionaries are your friend.  So is spell-check. For the dyslexic like myself (look in the dictionary if you need to: Dyslexia), spell-check is invaluable. 

 

Religion. OK. Never heard Dave Allen use the word so it isn't true.🙃🙃

4 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Well our physicists, cosmologists & mathematicians are all in uproar at the moment as 3I/Atlas hovers nearby and does things (apparently) that our current sciences of all descriptions believe impossible.

What are these?

 

4 hours ago, mfd101 said:

In the circumstances I think it behoves any rational human being to maintain an open mind on what the cosmos (or multiple cosmoi) has/have to offer that we haven't begun to imagine.

One of the ways science makes progress is by proving itself wrong (validation of observations of phenomena without a scientific explanation), then modifying itself to account for these phenomena. These phenomena are crucial to the advancement of the body of scientific knowledge. It's neatly summed up by Karl Popper's idea that science proceeds by falsifying ideas. Some go so far as to state that any statement cannot be scientific unless it is falsifiable. This property is the main difference between science and  organised religious dogmatism, where apparently there is some book that, despite its age, contains no errors, is the Word of <insert name of your favourite invisible friend> and completely explains all of Creation including, presumably, the antics of 3I/Atlas.

1 minute ago, BeastOfBodmin said:

What are these?

 

One of the ways science makes progress is by proving itself wrong (validation of observations of phenomena without a scientific explanation), then modifying itself to account for these phenomena. These phenomena are crucial to the advancement of the body of scientific knowledge. It's neatly summed up by Karl Popper's idea that science proceeds by falsifying ideas. Some go so far as to state that any statement cannot be scientific unless it is falsifiable. This property is the main difference between science and  organised religious dogmatism, where apparently there is some book that, despite its age, contains no errors, is the Word of <insert name of your favourite invisible friend> and completely explains all of Creation including, presumably, the antics of 3I/Atlas.

Ha-Ha. Anutin was correct to legalise Woopy Weed.😘🙃

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

It's not "popular demand"... You realised your world view, your "overton window" was more than a bit too narrow 😉

And, in non-dogmatic fashion, altered the poll to suit instead of starting a Holy War.

48 minutes ago, JAG said:

Rather a shame, but perhaps inevitable, the thread descends into this sort of imagery.

 

It is easy to mock others beliefs, as easy as it is to mock, for example, the asceticism of the Budhist Faith

 

 

 

Fat Buddhas are a dime a dozen.  There is so much cross-over with other Eastern religions. Chinese in this case.

1 hour ago, connda said:

I've had many of my Christian friends tell me these horror stories.  All sorts of nonsense. Then they try to convince you to "let Jesus Christ be your one and only personal savior and God with a Big "G"."  So, he was unconscious and had a bad dream.  Or - he was dead and encountered one of the "terrifying gods" which are outlined in depth in The Tibetan Book of the Dead and then misinterpreted his vision.  And the conditions that created the dream or the vision are essentially identical.  If the story is even true.  I tend the think they are just that - scary stories.

Yep. For me the main take away is these experiences are subjective. They are not repeatable. It might as well be Yuri Geller bending spoons.

1 hour ago, connda said:

What I find amazing are that those who would check "Atheism" or "None" put more energy into proselytizing and rationalizing their un-religiousness then do Evangelical Christians proselytizing and rationalizing the existence of Christ and The Holy Trinity.  Now there is a paradox, 'eh?

I don't agree. There are plenty of "lay" atheists, agnostics and non-theists. Probably more than the "evangelical" type you imply are the majority.

8 minutes ago, BeastOfBodmin said:

And, in non-dogmatic fashion, altered the poll to suit instead of starting a Holy War.

Heck - I aim to please! 

1 hour ago, connda said:

Dictionaries are your friend.  So is spell-check. For the dyslexic like myself (look in the dictionary if you need to: Dyslexia), spell-check is invaluable. 

Then there was the dyslexic, agnostic insomniac who lay awake at night wondering if there was a Dog.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, the one and only. The others are just false gods. 

So you're down to believing in only one God, which is only on more than me. Keep working on it.

51 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Hard to take something like a Satanic cult "founded in Shropshire" seriously.............555

Not 666? 

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Believing in God is common sense. Religions are man made. Thinking the universe and everything in it just happened without a creator is foolish.That's also a learned behavior.

Then surely believing a creator just happened to exist is also foolish. A better hypothesis is that matter has always existed and the universe is infinite, both internally and externally.

 

Maybe creation doesn't exist. Everything we see in the known world comes from something else. It just transforms, it's not created anew. 

 

Man just seems to want to have something higher than himself for whatever reason, but the only thing that we can prove fits that bill is nature. And certainly not an assumed creator god.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

People, no matter what they've been taught, grow into adults that can look at what they've learned and see if it feels right still.

once brainwashing has taken place its not that simple, professional help is required, Plus note how without exception "born again" types are either nutters or victims of trauma (nutters)

 

7 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

If a person chooses not to believe in God, they shouldn't argue with those that do, as they aren't going to change minds, especially as adults. and arguing over this doesn't help either side. We will all see the truth when we pass.

and the same goes for those who do believe in one of the numerous  fairy stories, 

 

7 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

There is only one God, because if there were more, we would obviously see them fighting for our votes. faith is how we believe, and again, it's a personal choice and no one else's business.

That assumes that these all powerful beings give a damn about our votes,  The notion of there only being one is just what you have been told and a result of a lack of imagination.  Millions of Hindus would disagree with you

 

7 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

some can't believe a God would allow such misery to happen, but this short life is nothing compared to forever, so that's why we believe. 

A sadistic god would certainly allow misery to happen, perhaps even orchestrate it.  Or perhaps the god is not as blessed with the all the powers you think it is,  Maybe it is simply incapable of preventing tragedy and misery

 

Religion is a purely man made concept,  the purpose of which is to exert control,  through fear (of the unknown)

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Thinking the universe and everything in it just happened without a creator is foolish.

Well considering that the universe and time are supposed to be infinite in every sense of the word then surely everything is theoretically capable of occurring spontaneously, in fact everything  is all bound to happen eventually with no need for any outside intervention at all

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

Hard to take something like a Satanic cult "founded in Shropshire" seriously.............555

Especially with the constant accusations of "Nazi-ism" mentioned in Wikipedia     Those right-wing extremists get everywhere 

I quite like the quote I heard in the drama series "Peaky Blinders"

 

"All religion is a foolish answer to a foolish question" 

 

IMO Atheism is a belief system, therefore I see myself as an Agnostic believing in nothing at all. I find far better ways to expend my mental energy!

 

I  take the view that if anyone proves to me the existence of any gods. prophets or other deities, I might reconsider, but, until then, I see no point in trying to communicate with, let alone worship an imaginary friend or trusting any book of unknown provenance.  For me if it cannot be proved by Science, it simply doesn't exist.

 

For those who wish to believe, I say "knock yourselves out" but DO NOT push your beliefs on others, nor twist your chosen beliefs into politics or violence....please.

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, exactly, very much so. A fatal poll design error.

Also, there should be a choice for Agnostic.

 

Agnostic should have a second checkbox for "maybe."  

 

Here's one for you, JT:  back around the time Mitt was running for pres someone did a poll of US Christians asking what religious denomination they would prefer the president to be.  Of course nearly everyone said the one that they themselves belong to.  Next question: what would be your second choice?  The majority said Jewish.  [a dozen jokes immediately come to mind from which I will refrain, because I know the direction it will tend go in this forum.]  Go figure. 

 

Also, how about "cafeteria creeds" where a person defines their own set of beliefs derived from others.  E.g. Jack Kerouac lives on as a Buddhist scholar though he never renounced Catholicism.

 

I used to date a gal who was raised Mormon (in Idaho).  She renounced it, much to the family's ire.  She went on to become a Communist, a Maoist true believer.  IMO she swapped out one repressive mindset for another.  

 

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, exactly, very much so. A fatal poll design error.

Also, there should be a choice for Agnostic.

There are no atheists/agnostics in fox holes or lying in your death bed.

7 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, the one and only. The others are just false gods. 

What an arrogant statement that is.

11 hours ago, 2long said:

The two biggest scams in all of humanity are religion, and the smoking of tabacco/cigarettes.

 

Holy smoke! 

1 hour ago, Rocky Sullivan said:

There are no atheists/agnostics in fox holes or lying in your death bed.

Did you come up with that old one all buy yourself?

Well done,you must be so proud!

 

57 minutes ago, jvs said:

What an arrogant statement that is.

But in the end, quite true, as all will eventually see

5 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Well considering that the universe and time are supposed to be infinite in every sense of the word then surely everything is theoretically capable of occurring spontaneously, in fact everything  is all bound to happen eventually with no need for any outside intervention at all

Nothing can come from nothing

5 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

once brainwashing has taken place its not that simple, professional help is required, Plus note how without exception "born again" types are either nutters or victims of trauma (nutters)

 

and the same goes for those who do believe in one of the numerous  fairy stories, 

 

That assumes that these all powerful beings give a damn about our votes,  The notion of there only being one is just what you have been told and a result of a lack of imagination.  Millions of Hindus would disagree with you

 

A sadistic god would certainly allow misery to happen, perhaps even orchestrate it.  Or perhaps the god is not as blessed with the all the powers you think it is,  Maybe it is simply incapable of preventing tragedy and misery

 

Religion is a purely man made concept,  the purpose of which is to exert control,  through fear (of the unknown)

Brainwashing is overcome by adult reasoning. Fairy tales are just an opinion. If there were more than one God, we would surely see evidence of a competition to prove who's the strongest. Misery might be here for God to see how caring we are, with all the doctors slowly curing diseases, and more so, humans don't live very long, and again, however long they do, it's still not comparable to forever, where everyone, no matter how much they've suffered, will have no pain. Yes, religions are man made, but one man was God's son, so that's the only legitimate one. Those who believe in God, the one, surely will all be forgiven.

6 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

Then surely believing a creator just happened to exist is also foolish. A better hypothesis is that matter has always existed and the universe is infinite, both internally and externally.

 

Maybe creation doesn't exist. Everything we see in the known world comes from something else. It just transforms, it's not created anew. 

 

Man just seems to want to have something higher than himself for whatever reason, but the only thing that we can prove fits that bill is nature. And certainly not an assumed creator god.

 

 

 

How would matter exist without being created? If man exists, he had to be created from some of that matter, along with everything else.