11 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   A generation is 40 years .

so, year 2599 ?

Generation is 20 years ....... the time it takes from birth to reproduction AKA 1 generation.

10 hours ago, FriendlyHorse said:

Influence? Get a grip. We haven't had an empire since 1945 and you somehow think we need 'influence'? LOL. The Swiss, Singapore and other countries that keep themselves to themselves do just fine being low-key and not 'influencing'.

 

As a permanent member of the UN Security Council, the UK has some - albeit limited - influence on the world stage, although that position is now threatened as a result of Brexit.

 

EU member states have a combined GDP of +/-$22.5tn (the second largest in the world), the UK's is +/-$3.5tn. The UK was the second biggest economy in the EU, and wielded significant influence within the bloc and therefore indirectly, globally. Now it is relatively insignificant. 

 

You mention that the likes of Singapore, Switzerland, etc get by just fine. That is largely true but they accept their role as 'rule takers' or suffer the negative consequences. We were promised that Brexit would allow us to 'take back control'. The truth is that it has had the opposite effect and that we are even more 'rule takers' rather than 'rule makers'.

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Takes 10 years to join.

Before then Farage will be in power, so forget it.

 

10 years seems excessive but I agree that rejoining won't, and can't, happen overnight.

 

Hopefully, Farage won't make it to #10.

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Generation is 20 years ....... the time it takes from birth to reproduction AKA 1 generation.

 

   Which is closer to 40 years these days , your case of it being 13 years is an anomaly 

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

10 years seems excessive but I agree that rejoining won't, and can't, happen overnight.

 

Hopefully, Farage won't make it to #10.

 

    Why doesn't Labour rejoin now then ?

10 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   A generation is 40 years .

so, year 2599 ?

 

@BritManToo is nearer the mark. 15 - 20 years is closer to a generation, so mid-2030s for the next referendum.

 

We'll just have to live with further negative consequences until then.

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    Why doesn't Labour rejoin now then ?

 

Because they lack the political courage to do so.

3 hours ago, Tiger1980 said:

Probably because it was very expensive for the British taxpayers.

 

EU students owe Britain £5bn in loans. EU students owe Britain more than £5bn in unpaid loans, official figures show. The total outstanding amount, lent to those studying at UK universities, has increased from £0.7bn in 2013-14 to £5.8bn in 2024-25, according to data from the Student Loans Company.

 

This certainly reflects badly on the honesty and integrity of the individuals concerned, but unless they were resident in the UK before February 2020, these loans will not be available to EU nationals in future.

Back in the late 1980s, I taught at a German university that brought in sizable groups of UK students on the Erasmus program. I remember most of them being from Sunderland Polytechnic. My British colleagues pigeonholed their background as being the children of people who worked as clerks and such in offices. A couple of the boys were belligerent and combative, but the rest seemed determined to make as much out of the experience as possible--I believe they studied for just a semester in Germany. Better than backpacking or going on a month long tour. 

More good news. Next should be rejoining the Single Market followed by the Customs Union and then Rejoin.

6 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

       Nigel needs to accept, as does everyone else, that is was  one time only referendum.

Nigel would need to accept the result , even it the result was close 

I know the unapologetic antisemite Farage hates being held to account for what he said, but his words on the matter of close run result were clear.

 

Actually his antisemitic and racist words were clear too.

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I know the unapologetic antisemite Farage hates being held to account for what he said, but his words on the matter of close run result were clear.

 

Actually his antisemitic and racist words were clear too.

 

 

   I am saying that Nigel Farage was wrong .

Are you in agreement with Nigel Farage ?

7 hours ago, Tiger1980 said:

Probably because it was very expensive for the British taxpayers.

 

EU students owe Britain £5bn in loans. EU students owe Britain more than £5bn in unpaid loans, official figures show. The total outstanding amount, lent to those studying at UK universities, has increased from £0.7bn in 2013-14 to £5.8bn in 2024-25, according to data from the Student Loans Company.

So it increased after UK left and cancelled its participation to the Erasmus program.

 

BTW. Erasmus students usually don't pay (it's an exchange program), and are probably not eligible for loans.

The British "overwhelmingly" voting, with a 51.89% for Leave to 48.11% for Remain, better to leave the UK where it is according to the British: free in open waters, to grasp their own destiny.

"European students" is a euphemism for unemployed cultural enrichers who just got their EU papers from Merkel.

 

Just another gateway for immigrants.

 

Reform will end all this. 

12 hours ago, RayC said:

 

10 years seems excessive but I agree that rejoining won't, and can't, happen overnight.

 

Hopefully, Farage won't make it to #10.

 

Your position  is one of assumptions. How about recognizing that there has been a sabotage of Brexit? There has been a core  group of the government civil service, UK academics and vested financial interest groups  who have been doing their utmost to bugger up Brexit. Compounding this negativity has been the intentional sabotage by France and to a lesser extent some European countries like Belgium. France has been intentionally  allowing and facilitating migrants to swarm the UK. Marginal economic powers like Belgium have used the UK's position need to negotiate with the UK as an opportunity to exploit the UK. And on top of all this has been the. intentional misinformation campaign of  Russia that has circulated conspiracy claims and fomented civil unrest in the UK.

On 12/18/2025 at 8:55 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

Not popular with the right for sure, but doesn't go far enough for the left!  Poor man can't win.  

Unless Reform merge with the Tories, I don't think they'll win in 2029.  The British people have more sense.

 

And yet they  gave a massive majority to Labour with no regard to the consequences of such a vote.

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

"European students" is a euphemism for unemployed cultural enrichers who just got their EU papers from Merkel.

 

Just another gateway for immigrants.

 

Reform will end all this. 

Absolute anti-immigrant anti-foreigner paranoia. You get more and more paranoid and xenophobic by the day, I think you need help.

This is how the all nations in Europe need to function to survive. Negociate the deals on a case to case and do not let Brussels rule your country. 

10 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

And on top of all this has been the. intentional misinformation campaign of  Russia that has circulated conspiracy claims and fomented civil unrest in the UK.

Huh? Russia fuelled the Brexit campaign, you should be grateful.

 

Still blaming everyone but the real cause: there was no plan, no idea what 'Brexit' entails.

15 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Your position  is one of assumptions. How about recognizing that there has been a sabotage of Brexit? There has been a core  group of the government civil service, UK academics and vested financial interest groups  who have been doing their utmost to bugger up Brexit. Compounding this negativity has been the intentional sabotage by France and to a lesser extent some European countries like Belgium. France has been intentionally  allowing and facilitating migrants to swarm the UK. Marginal economic powers like Belgium have used the UK's position need to negotiate with the UK as an opportunity to exploit the UK. And on top of all this has been the. intentional misinformation campaign of  Russia that has circulated conspiracy claims and fomented civil unrest in the UK.

 

I take it that you didn't read this thread from the start? If you had, you would have realised that you are offering even more evidence to support my contention that Brexiters take no accountability or responsibility for the mess that they have created: It's always someone else's fault.

 

Who exactly are this mystery group of group of " ... the civil service, UK academics and vested financial interest groups  who have been doing their utmost to bugger up Brexit"? How were this presumably uncordinated band able to prevent the governments of not one, but three Brexiter PMs plus  their merry band of followers e.g. Rees-Mogg, Cummings, Gove et al from implementing their 'pure' version of Brexit? How does the "swarming" of England by illegal migrants - somehow facilitated by the dasterdly French and Belgians - cause the implementation of this Brave New Brexit World to collapse? There may be an ever increasing number of Brexiters now regretting their decision, but there is not a hoarde of people - fuelled by Russian propaganda - taking to the streets demanding that we rejoin the EU.

 

This isn't even conspiracy theory; it is pure fantasy and, as I said at the outset, merely offers yet more evidence that the die-hard Brexiters take no accountability or responsibility for the mess that Brexiter has created in the UK.

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

Huh? Russia fuelled the Brexit campaign, you should be grateful.

 

Still blaming everyone but the real cause: there was no plan, no idea what 'Brexit' entails.

Sowing civil strife and fomenting unrest serves Russia's interests. It isn't about being pro or anti Brexit, but a goal of disruption by setting people against each other.

38 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I take it that you didn't read this thread from the start? If you had, you would have realised that you are offering even more evidence to support my contention that Brexiters take no accountability or responsibility for the mess that they have created: It's always someone else's fault.

 

Who exactly are this mystery group of group of " ... the civil service, UK academics and vested financial interest groups  who have been doing their utmost to bugger up Brexit"? How were this presumably uncordinated band able to prevent the governments of not one, but three Brexiter PMs plus  their merry band of followers e.g. Rees-Mogg, Cummings, Gove et al from implementing their 'pure' version of Brexit? How does the "swarming" of England by illegal migrants - somehow facilitated by the dasterdly French and Belgians - cause the implementation of this Brave New Brexit World to collapse? There may be an ever increasing number of Brexiters now regretting their decision, but there is not a hoarde of people - fuelled by Russian propaganda - taking to the streets demanding that we rejoin the EU.

 

This isn't even conspiracy theory; it is pure fantasy and, as I said at the outset, merely offers yet more evidence that the die-hard Brexiters take no accountability or responsibility for the mess that Brexiter has created in the UK.

There is no mystery group. The groups who have been opposed to Brexit are well documented and many are open about their activity.

 

14 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

There is no mystery group. The groups who have been opposed to Brexit are well documented and many are open about their activity.

 

 

Nonsense. There are individuals and groups who were opposed to Brexit and still think it a mistake but which individuals and groups deliberately sabotaged Brexit and have ensured its' lack of success since we left the EU. Name names.

16 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

This is how the all nations in Europe need to function to survive. Negociate the deals on a case to case and do not let Brussels rule your country. 

 

Brussels doesn't have a government ruling Brussels at the moment, let alone any other country.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/02/brussels-breaks-belgium-record-longest-period-without-government#:~:text=The deadlock has led to: * A,Brussels will have a government anytime soon.

17 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Nonsense. There are individuals and groups who were opposed to Brexit and still think it a mistake but which individuals and groups deliberately sabotaged Brexit and have ensured its' lack of success since we left the EU. Name names.

 

The SNP andf Plaid Cymru have been open on their opposition to allowing  Brexit to proceed smoothly. Nicola Sturgeon was very clear in her opposition an stated that the decision's passing meant little as the SNP opposition would continue. This is seen today in the  attempts to disrupt legislation that would allow measures to be effected that will allow a better transition.

 

There are factions in both Labour and Conservative parties who have done their utmost to slow down implementation of the Brexit process because those measures would make it more difficult to reverse Brexit.

 

The delays by some civil servants in providing data or following measures, i.e. a go by the book approach are intended to delay the implementation of Brexit.

 

The obstruction to a Brexit transition is not a concerted full scale activity. Rather, it is a death by a hundred cuts strategy.  Jim Allister provides an illustration of how Labour has eroded the intent of Brexit.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/jim-allister-says-sir-keir-starmers-government-is-sabotaging-brexit-as-uk-eu-deal-expected-5134277

 

The commercial interests who have profited from the import of cheap east European labour and low cost products that they could sell at  large markups have never hidden their intent. 

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The SNP andf Plaid Cymru have been open on their opposition to allowing  Brexit to proceed smoothly. Nicola Sturgeon was very clear in her opposition an stated that the decision's passing meant little as the SNP opposition would continue. This is seen today in the  attempts to disrupt legislation that would allow measures to be effected that will allow a better transition.

 

The SNP and Plaid Cymru may have been open in their opposition to Brexit but they have only limited jurisdiction both in terms of functional and, more obviously, geographic scope: Even playing devil's advocate and accepting that the SNP and Plaid could stymie all Brexit related legislation in Scotland and Wales - in reality they couldn't - this still only affected +/-10% of the UK's population. The remaining 90% who live in England and NI were governed by Westminster (Stormont not being operational at the time).

 

Therefore, it's a red herring to suggest that the SNP and Plaid have any significant blocking powers in the UK as a whole.

 

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

There are factions in both Labour and Conservative parties who have done their utmost to slow down implementation of the Brexit process because those measures would make it more difficult to reverse Brexit.

 

There are now very few, if any, anti-Brexit individuals among the Tory MPs: Johnson expelled them all. The question therefore still remains: Given that successive pro-Brexit Tory administrations at Westminster had a majority of +/-80 for 4+ years, what prevented them from rescinding all the 'bad' EU law and passing legislation which would have made Brexit a success during this time?

 

(I'll preempt the objection that COVID stopped this happened by pointing out that most ministers and civil servants were not working on COVID related matters)

 

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

The delays by some civil servants in providing data or following measures, i.e. a go by the book approach are intended to delay the implementation of Brexit.

 

So civil servants should by-pass established processes and procedures whenever it takes their - or their minister's - fancy?

 

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

The obstruction to a Brexit transition is not a concerted full scale activity. Rather, it is a death by a hundred cuts strategy.  Jim Allister provides an illustration of how Labour has eroded the intent of Brexit.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/jim-allister-says-sir-keir-starmers-government-is-sabotaging-brexit-as-uk-eu-deal-expected-5134277

 

The link details a variation of a known problem. Unsurprisingly, Mr. Allister offers no solution to the problem as it is insoluble: How can:

 

1) GB have an open border with NI whilst simultaneously 2) NI having an open border with the RoI but 3) GB having a closed border with the RoI and EU and 4) the RoI having an open border with the rest of the EU?

 

Some Brexiters accused the EU of being inflexible in this matter. Presumably, they thought that the EU should adjust the rules governing the Single Market and Customs Union in order to facilitate the needs of a state which no longer wished to be an EU member?

 

It is unclear if and/or why Mr. Allister objects to the EU Sanitary and Psytosanitary laws themselves? If he does, then presumably he must be suggesting that the UK adopt stricter laws as I don't think that many UK nationals - irrespective of whether they were Brexiter or Remainer - would have been in favour of relaxing Animal Welfare and Food Standard laws in the UK.

 

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

The commercial interests who have profited from the import of cheap east European labour and low cost products that they could sell at  large markups have never hidden their intent. 

 

If the import of cheaper labour into the UK was considered to be a problem then there was a simple solution: The government should have introduced (enhanced) minimum wage legislation. This is perfectly possible irrespective of whether a state is a member of the EU or not.

 

If you have an ideological objection to the capitalist economic model then that's a whole different ball game.

On 12/21/2025 at 4:41 AM, RayC said:

 

10 years seems excessive but I agree that rejoining won't, and can't, happen overnight.

 

Hopefully, Farage won't make it to #10.

hopefully

 

but the threat is enough

 

https://www.ft.com/content/963fb3ff-d017-4272-8681-f7b431c95b34 or https://archive.ph/QoOf6

 

Quote

EU diplomats have little appetite for discussing Britain’s return to the customs union, especially while Nigel Farage’s eurosceptic Reform UK is on the rise.

 

“We’re not going to spend years getting a customs union only for Farage to come along and pull out,” said one EU diplomat, referring to his party’s strong lead in UK opinion polls.

 

When I read or hear the phrase 'Erasmus program', I always smile to myself. I think most people know that the youth (well, let us say the heavy majority of them) go for that program for fun and games , for a semester or two. Who can blame them ? 🙂

On 12/25/2025 at 10:08 PM, JemJem said:

When I read or hear the phrase 'Erasmus program', I always smile to myself. I think most people know that the youth (well, let us say the heavy majority of them) go for that program for fun and games , for a semester or two. Who can blame them ? 🙂

 

 

The claim that Erasmus students primarily join the program for “fun and games” is a common stereotype, but it doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.

Erasmus exchanges are not vacations. Students must enroll in courses at the host institution, pass exams, and ensure credit transfer to their home university. Failure to meet these requirements jeopardize their degree.

Exchange students often face more complexity than local students:  
- New academic system differs in grading, teaching style, and expectations.  
- Bureaucratic tasks (housing, visas, insurance) while studying.  
- Language barriers, which adds cognitive effort to every lecture, assignment, and interaction.