The included link is about requirement thresholds to PAY tax rather than the requirement to file when you have social security income.

As most U.S. taxpayers know, not everyone is required to file.

Although there are other relevant rules, to keep this simple, basically those under a certain income threshold are not even required to file at all.

Technically you're doing the government (as if you care) a favor by not filing when you don't need to.

On the other hand, some might argue that it's in your best interest to file even if not required.

 

So this topic is about if your income is completely or mostly social security.

Let's say completely to simplify the question.

 

So if your total SS income is above the filing requirement threshold but half of your SS income is below it, are you required to file or not?

Why half?

 

Here's why from the link:

Quote

 

Understanding “Combined Income”

The key to figuring out if you'll pay taxes on your benefits is a figure the IRS calls your "combined income" (sometimes called "provisional income"). This is not simply your total income. The formula is:

Your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI)

PLUS Your Nontaxable Interest (like interest from municipal bonds)

PLUS One-Half of Your Social Security Benefits for the year

Once you have that "combined income" number, you can compare it to the federal thresholds, which have not been adjusted for inflation since they were created decades ago.

 

 

Are Social Security benefits taxable? IRS rules explained

 

Calling any U.S. tax nerds.

Don't be shy.

You have to file a tax return. 

4 minutes ago, TedG said:

You have to file a tax return. 

Meaningless comment.

Not everyone needs to file a tax return.

The people that don’t have to file are the destitute that don’t make enough income to file.

 

Not the place to be.

 

SS or not.

 

Glad I’m not in that camp.

Just now, Rocky Sullivan said:

The people that don’t have to file are the destitute that don’t make enough income to file.

 

Not the place to be.

 

SS or not.

 

Glad I’m not in that camp.

Not seeking troll comments.

This was a specific technical question.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not seeking troll comments.

This was a specific technical question.

 

 

You must be in that camp.

 

It's obvious.

 

A quick google search would have answered your questions.  
 

Thank me later.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Meaningless comment.

Not everyone needs to file a tax return.

It's hard to interpret your world salads post.  You should use a simple search engine and find the answer.   

 

 

In the U.S., **you generally do NOT have to file a federal income tax return** if **your gross income is below the IRS filing threshold for your situation**. Here’s how it breaks down in plain terms.

---

## 1. People who usually **do NOT have to file**

### A. Income below the filing requirement

For **2024 tax year** (filed in 2025), you typically don’t have to file if your **gross income** is below:

| Filing Status          | Age            | Gross Income Under |
| ---------------------- | -------------- | ------------------ |
| Single                 | Under 65       | $13,850            |
| Single                 | 65+            | $15,700            |
| Married Filing Jointly | Both under 65  | $27,700            |
| MFJ                    | One spouse 65+ | $29,200            |
| MFJ                    | Both 65+       | $30,700            |
| Head of Household      | Under 65       | $20,800            |
| Head of Household      | 65+            | $22,650            |

*(Gross income = all taxable income before deductions)*

---

### B. Social Security–only income

You **usually do NOT have to file** if:

* Social Security is your **only income**, **and**
* **Half of your Social Security + other income** is below:

  * **$25,000** (single)
  * **$32,000** (married filing jointly)

👉 This directly relates to what you were asking earlier:
If **half your SS + other income is below the threshold**, **you generally do NOT have to file**, even if total SS benefits look “high.”

---

### C. Low-income retirees

You often don’t have to file if your income is only from:

* Social Security (below thresholds)
* Small pensions
* Tax-exempt interest only

---

## 2. People who **MUST file**, even with low income

You **DO have to file** if **any** of these apply:

* You had **self-employment income ≥ $400**
* You owe **Social Security or Medicare tax**
* You took money from a **HSA** incorrectly
* You owe **alternative minimum tax**
* You received **ACA (Obamacare) premium subsidies**
* You owe **penalty taxes** (early retirement withdrawals, etc.)

---

## 3. People who don’t *have* to file—but **should**

You might want to file anyway if:

* Federal taxes were **withheld** and you want a refund
* You qualify for credits (Earned Income Credit, Child Tax Credit)
* You want to keep a **clean income record** for loans or benefits

---

## Bottom line

* **No filing required** if income is below thresholds **and** no special tax situations apply
* **Social Security alone usually does not trigger filing**
* Self-employment income **almost always triggers filing**

If you want, tell me:

* Filing status
* Age
* Income sources (SS, pension, interest, work)

I can tell you **definitively** whether filing is required.
 

34 minutes ago, Rocky Sullivan said:

You must be in that camp.

 

It's obvious.

 

A quick google search would have answered your questions.  
 

Thank me later.

 

 

 

It's possible to have small income and a lot of savings. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

It's possible to have small income and a lot of savings. 

 

 

Anything is possible.

 

Even small income and small or no savings.

1 hour ago, Rocky Sullivan said:

The people that don’t have to file are the destitute that don’t make enough income to file.

 

Not the place to be.

 

SS or not.

 

Glad I’m not in that camp.

I wouldn't call me destitute.  As surely I could easily live on $2709, a month, in the USA, if I was there.  And not need to file fed income taxes. 

 

Yearly total income being $32,508

Combined income being $4284 + $14,112 (1/2 SS) = $25,704

 

 

I'll also be exempt from filing next year, since threshold to file has been raised.  That 2.8% COLA will still be under, especially if using 'combined income'

47 minutes ago, TedG said:

It's hard to interpret your world salads post.  You should use a simple search engine and find the answer.   

 

 

In the U.S., **you generally do NOT have to file a federal income tax return** if **your gross income is below the IRS filing threshold for your situation**. Here’s how it breaks down in plain terms.

---

## 1. People who usually **do NOT have to file**

### A. Income below the filing requirement

For **2024 tax year** (filed in 2025), you typically don’t have to file if your **gross income** is below:

| Filing Status          | Age            | Gross Income Under |
| ---------------------- | -------------- | ------------------ |
| Single                 | Under 65       | $13,850            |
| Single                 | 65+            | $15,700            |
| Married Filing Jointly | Both under 65  | $27,700            |
| MFJ                    | One spouse 65+ | $29,200            |
| MFJ                    | Both 65+       | $30,700            |
| Head of Household      | Under 65       | $20,800            |
| Head of Household      | 65+            | $22,650            |

*(Gross income = all taxable income before deductions)*

---

### B. Social Security–only income

You **usually do NOT have to file** if:

* Social Security is your **only income**, **and**
* **Half of your Social Security + other income** is below:

  * **$25,000** (single)
  * **$32,000** (married filing jointly)

👉 This directly relates to what you were asking earlier:
If **half your SS + other income is below the threshold**, **you generally do NOT have to file**, even if total SS benefits look “high.”

---

### C. Low-income retirees

You often don’t have to file if your income is only from:

* Social Security (below thresholds)
* Small pensions
* Tax-exempt interest only

---

## 2. People who **MUST file**, even with low income

You **DO have to file** if **any** of these apply:

* You had **self-employment income ≥ $400**
* You owe **Social Security or Medicare tax**
* You took money from a **HSA** incorrectly
* You owe **alternative minimum tax**
* You received **ACA (Obamacare) premium subsidies**
* You owe **penalty taxes** (early retirement withdrawals, etc.)

---

## 3. People who don’t *have* to file—but **should**

You might want to file anyway if:

* Federal taxes were **withheld** and you want a refund
* You qualify for credits (Earned Income Credit, Child Tax Credit)
* You want to keep a **clean income record** for loans or benefits

---

## Bottom line

* **No filing required** if income is below thresholds **and** no special tax situations apply
* **Social Security alone usually does not trigger filing**
* Self-employment income **almost always triggers filing**

If you want, tell me:

* Filing status
* Age
* Income sources (SS, pension, interest, work)

I can tell you **definitively** whether filing is required.
 

#3 is silly, 'Don't have to, but should'

 

Nobody is that stupid.   I filed fed income tax 2X since being in TH, the past 25 yrs.  Only because of stock sales.   Pension & Soc Sec has always been under the threshold, so why would I file ?

Just file a return. And don't forget to file a FBAR with the US Treasury for any Thai bank accounts you have.

12 minutes ago, connda said:

Just file a return. And don't forget to file a FBAR with the US Treasury for any Thai bank accounts you have.

Again, why file, along with FBAR, unless having over $10k USD worth  at any one time.  Why I make withdrawals every 3rd month, to stay under the threshold to file FBAR.

@Jingthing see, my above posts

 

Edit: forgot, you may be filing as single retired ...

 

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-reminds-taxpayers-their-social-security-benefits-may-be-taxable

 

Quote

• Failing to file your taxes can lead to penalties and interest, but only if you owe a tax bill.
• If you don’t owe taxes, there’s no penalty for failing to file or filing late. But you could be missing out on a valuable tax refund.

So, if you overwithhold/pay too much estimated tax -- and therefore owe no taxes -- you don't have to file, if you don't want to.

 

Why would you want to do this? Well, this is what my wife will do after I croak, because she's incapable of filing a tax return; and even getting on the computer and downloading the applicable 1099's to mail to a tax professional (the nearest one being in Bangkok, as there is currently none in CM). 

 

But why go thru this hassle, to pay a tax return outfit several hundred dollars -- just to get a Federal tax refund of several hundred dollars? It could be a wash, or nearly so -- with no extra effort. And I've already prepared the W-4 for her survivor pension, with extra withholding, to cover non 1099 income, like interest on her Thai bank account. And she already has in-place a W-4's for her own pension, and even Social Security. Thus, she just pokes into the 22% tax bracket when it comes time to take her Required Minimum Distribution from her IRA; and Schwab has on file to withhold at 22%, meaning this withholding exactly matches dollar-for-dollar the tax liability for this RMD (or any extra distribution, if she wants). So, she'll be pretty much in the  ballpark for her target overwithholding -- which, again, would approximate what she'd have to pay a tax professional.

 

The govt does figure your taxes, using available W2 and 1099 data. This is called 'substitute for return' (SRF), but is only meaningful if you owe taxes and the govt thus sends you a bill. But nothing happens if an SRF determines the govt owes you, and not vice versa. Uncle Sam doesn't concern himself with folks who don't file to get their refund. So, if you don't want to file, and you don't owe any taxes -- your free to do so.

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I wouldn't call me destitute.  As surely I could easily live on $2709, a month, in the USA, if I was there.  And not need to file fed income taxes. 

 

Yearly total income being $32,508

Combined income being $4284 + $14,112 (1/2 SS) = $25,704

 

 

I'll also be exempt from filing next year, since threshold to file has been raised.  That 2.8% COLA will still be under, especially if using 'combined income'

While being married does raise the threshold to your advantage of not having to file,  “living easily “ on that income could be a challenge depending on where you live and lifestyle.

 

You’re better off in Thailand.

14 minutes ago, Rocky Sullivan said:

While being married does raise the threshold to your advantage of not having to file,  “living easily “ on that income could be a challenge depending on where you live and lifestyle.

 

You’re better off in Thailand.

Agree better in TH, and partly why I'm here.

 

But surely I would have the same lifestyle in the USA as in TH.   Maybe not as many O&A, or I'd have to go the truck or van RV route, vs hotels.  I used to do quite a bit of camping, so not a problem, but I'll pass on the hard tent floor, and hassle of setting up tent.

 

$2000 a month for food, and $700+ extra for play money.   As I would have the same as I do now, live rural, and self sufficient; solar, collect water & septic tank, no need of municipal services.

 

Only extras would be Medicare Plan B & Starlink

39 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, if you overwithhold/pay too much estimated tax -- and therefore owe no taxes -- you don't have to file, if you don't want to.

 

Why would you want to do this? Well, this is what my wife will do after I croak, because she's incapable of filing a tax return; and even getting on the computer and downloading the applicable 1099's to mail to a tax professional (the nearest one being in Bangkok, as there is currently none in CM). 

 

But why go thru this hassle, to pay a tax return outfit several hundred dollars -- just to get a Federal tax refund of several hundred dollars? It could be a wash, or nearly so -- with no extra effort. And I've already prepared the W-4 for her survivor pension, with extra withholding, to cover non 1099 income, like interest on her Thai bank account. And she already has in-place a W-4's for her own pension, and even Social Security. Thus, she just pokes into the 22% tax bracket when it comes time to take her Required Minimum Distribution from her IRA; and Schwab has on file to withhold at 22%, meaning this withholding exactly matches dollar-for-dollar the tax liability for this RMD (or any extra distribution, if she wants). So, she'll be pretty much in the  ballpark for her target overwithholding -- which, again, would approximate what she'd have to pay a tax professional.

 

The govt does figure your taxes, using available W2 and 1099 data. This is called 'substitute for return' (SRF), but is only meaningful if you owe taxes and the govt thus sends you a bill. But nothing happens if an SRF determines the govt owes you, and not vice versa. Uncle Sam doesn't concern himself with folks who don't file to get their refund. So, if you don't want to file, and you don't owe any taxes -- your free to do so.

You can send in a 1040, with a notation for them to do your taxes for you.  They'll bill you for any tax due, and refund anything due.

 

Just don't expect a quick return of tax refund, and not sure if it will include the 4% interest they use to pay if they owe.   Use to be 11% interest if you owe 

 

I sent in a FBAR with a snide remark ... "too poor to file 1040, but feel free if you want to".   And damn if they didn't, though took 2+ years for them to do 

 

Way too funny

 

Edit:  curious, so checked, they now charge & give the same 7% interest 👍

43 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You can send in a 1040, with a notation for them to do your taxes for you.  They'll bill you for any tax due, and refund anything due.

The only time they'll do your return for you is if they believe you owe back taxes:

 

Quote

The only situation in which the IRS will prepare a return for you is if you fail to file a required return after receiving several notices. This is called a "Substitute for Return" (SFR), and it is not a positive experience. The IRS will use the information it has (like Forms W-2 and 1099) to calculate your tax liability, and will typically not include any deductions or credits you may be entitled to, often resulting in a higher tax bill and penalties. 

 

49 minutes ago, JimGant said:

The only time they'll do your return for you is if they believe you owe back taxes:

 

 

 

That's obviously wrong, as I didn't owe taxes, and didn't aske them to do, and they had no reason to suspect I owe taxes.  Also was not required to file a 1040 for that tax year, or 23 of the 25 years in retirement.  I've sent FBAR before, and they did not file a 1040 for me.

 

I guess someone took my snide remark as an invitation to, taking their job way too seriously.  Does show though, if you send a 1040 in, they will do it for you.  They have all the info, w-2/4 & 1099s.  As I didn't submit any of them.

The Standard Deduction is $17,750.

 

Some of your SocSec may be exempt from taxation (see the Social Security Work Sheet).

 

There is also a (up to ) $6,000 deduction (Schedule 1A to 1040 Line 13B), which I think is "new" this year.

 

 

 

AI's answer is:

 

The gross income thresholds for the 2025 tax year are: 

 

Filing Status	Taxpayer Age at End of 2025	File if Gross Income Was At Least
Single	Under 65	$15,750
	65 or older	$17,750
Married Filing Jointly	Both spouses under 65	$31,500
	One spouse 65 or older	$33,100
	Both spouses 65 or older	$34,700
Married Filing Separately	Any age	$5
Head of Household	Under 65	$23,625
	65 or older	$25,625
Qualifying Surviving Spouse	Under 65	$31,500
	65 or older	$33,100   Components of Gross Income Gross income is a broad term and includes, but is not limited to, the following sources:  Wages, salaries, tips, bonuses, and commissions Net earnings from self-employment (gross receipts minus business expenses) Interest and dividends Capital gains from the sale of property or investments Rental income (net of expenses) and royalties Pension and annuity income Taxable alimony payments (for divorce agreements prior to 2019) Unemployment compensation The taxable part of Social Security benefits Fair market value of property or services received through bartering

17 hours ago, Rocky Sullivan said:

You must be in that camp.

 

It's obvious.

 

A quick google search would have answered your questions.  
 

Thank me later.

 

 

The OP is probably NOT filing taxes for 2024....555.

You did the same Google search I did, but failed to actually look at the result.

I did pay attention and then did a more specific search for the current info...

and...

I posted the correct numbers for a 2025 filing above this post.

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Only extras would be Medicare Plan B & Starlink

er..... and property taxes.

I don't think anyone here as yet has answered my actual and very specific question (that had the premise to keep it simple that all income was from SS)

 

So if your total SS income is above the filing requirement threshold but half of your SS income is below it, are you required to file or not?

32 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

The OP is probably NOT filing taxes for 2024....555.

You did the same Google search I did, but failed to actually look at the result.

I did pay attention and then did a more specific search for the current info...

and...

I posted the correct numbers for a 2025 filing above this post.

True, so an extra grand give or take.

 

Still the po boy camp.

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's obvious that you are in "camp" of arrogant pompous A-holes.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think anyone here as yet has answered my actual and very specific question (that had the premise to keep it simple that all income was from SS)

 

So if your total SS income is above the filing requirement threshold but half of your SS income is below it, are you required to file or not?

answer given in my post above in the list of income sources that the IRS uses to compute 'Gross Income'

 

ONLY the taxable portion of your SS benefits are considered when determining if you meet the filing requirement.

 

You can download a donation ware Excel spreadsheet which will do pretty much all the calculations needed by most US taxpayers that don't run a business.

 

https://sites.google.com/view/incometaxspreadsheet/home

44 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

er..... and property taxes.

I wouldn't live in a suburban area, so they wouldn't be that high.  Owning always better than renting.