1 hour ago, khunPer said:

This – "...can ONLY be taxed by Canada and not taxed by Thailand. So when that Canadian pension is remitted to Thailand it is not assessable income to Thailand and it is not to be considered when assessing if one meets the threshold to file a Thai tax return" – might be where misunderstandings appear.

Its important to read the EXACT wording of the DTA, because many DTA are NOT like the Canada-Thailand DTA. I can only assume you have not looked at many DTA, which I suspect is also the case for most Thailand RD officials.

Article-18 of the Canada-Thailand DTA specifically states (and I quote - with edits to indicate the 'state's) :

1. Pensions and other similar remuneration, whether they consist of periodic or non-periodic payments, for past employment, arising in a Contracting State (Canada) and paid to a resident of the other Contracting state (Thailand) shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State (Canada).

I think the word "only" is pretty clear. "only" excludes Thailand taxing.

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

It was how many of us did it before 2024; i.e. income already taxed in our home country and covered by a DTA, was not needed to be included in a tax return in Thailand, or a tax return was not filed at all, if all transferred income had already been taxed. I omitted already taxed income and only reported non-taxed transferred fund in my Thai tax return form before 2024. I was even checked about 5 years ago and the method was fully accepted.

I don't know your country, but I suspect the DTA between your source income country and Canadat may not have the "only" qualification. The slides you seem to like to quote are generalities, and there are nuances that go deeper. I can look at the DTA of your source country, if you wish, and post what it says re: pensions from your source country. It may be only Thailand can tax such.

Take for example the German-Thailand DTA, ... in that case, 'state' pensions from the German government, to those who were NOT government employees, are NOT taxed by Germany if one is a Thailand tax resident, but ARE taxable by Thailand.

I sense you do not appreciate that there are differences here.

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Back then, we also had the "savings-option" by keeping the year's income at home until the 1st January the following year; magically changing any untaxed earning to tax-free savings.

The saving's aspect is in addition to any DTA benefits. It does NOT supercede any DTA benefits. I sense you don't understand that.

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

But note the change from 1st January 2024, where all transferred foreign income are taxable...

More accurate is to state all transferred foreign income is subject to possible taxation, but other aspects come in to play, such as Double Tax Agreements (DTA). Those 1-Jan-2024 'changes' do NOT over rule DTA.

I sense you do not understand that.

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Now all transferred foreign income – excluding savings before 2024 and some special Visa-exceptions – shall be declared in the tax return, where already paid tax proportionally can be credited in any due Thai income tax as per DTA.

No. That is not precise. In cases where BOTH countries can tax an income, per a DTA, then yes, tax credits come in to play. But in cases where only ONE country can tax an income, per a DTA, then there are no Tax credits involved.

I pointed out an example , Canada-Thailand DTA, where no tax credits come into play. Thailand has agreed NOT to tax that pension.

I pointed out an example, German-Thailand DTA, where no tax credits come into play, where for state (not-civil service) pensions, Germany does not tax that. (and I have a letter from the German government confirming that).

Germany has agreed NOT to tax that pension (of Thailand tax residents) who receive a German pension (non-civil service/non-military), but Thailand may tax that pension. i say 'may' because, if for example, one has an LTR-WP or LTR-WGC visa, and brings that pension into Thailand in a year OTHER than which it was earned, that pension is not taxable by Thailand for those specific visa holders. This is confirmed by a Thailand Royal Decree which means a LOT more than some slide presentation.

A further nuance, when it comes to German government pensions, to ex-civil servants/military-retired from Germany, the German-Thailand DTA notes Thailand is not to tax such a pension (unless the person receiving that German pension is a Thai citizen).

Again, there are nuances.

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

It fits well with the revenue department-director's information that all transferred foreign income shall be included in a tax return

With respect, you have a lack of understanding of the Thailand Tax law, of the Double Tax agreements. When going to a local RD to discuss taxation, as an expat with foreign sourced income, be very cautious. Most people, including officials in the local RD offices, do not take the time to look at the Double Tax Agreements. One can easily walk away with the wrong assessment, if one does not take the time to review all the nuances.

For example, when my wife (on my behalf) chatted with the Phuket RD official, they had never heard of a Thailand Long Term Resident (LTR) visa. Its difficult to get an accurate answer from a local RD official, as expats like us are an usual case, and the local RD officials often do not know all the nuances. So care is needed.

I find the following thread very useful in determining which types of income are taxable by Thailand (assessable), and which types are not taxable (non-assessable). For example; US gov't pensions & US social security benefits can only be taxed by the US gov't, so both would be non-assessable income. One does not need to file a Thai tax return if one only remits non-assessable income.

21 hours ago, JimGant said:

Completely wrong. In fact, mechanically, it's bonkers -- 'cause there's no place to put income not subject to taxation. You do your self-assessment, determine if Por 162 and your DTA exempt certain incomes (like my US govt pension and Social Security -- absolutely and exclusively exempt from ever having to show up on a Thai tax return) -- and you then determine whether or not you have to file a tax return -- and then declaring only those assessable incomes, 'cause there's no other place to include non assessable incomes.

Is your rogue Provincial RD dude actually interviewing all foreigners in his province? Or just those who filed tax returns, thus putting themselves on the radar screen? And you - where did you indicate all your remitted income, to include income you (hopefully) had determined was non assessable? [because, again, there ain't no place on the tax return for non assessable income.]

Maybe someday those of us with large remittances will be called in for a chat to explain the source of those remittances. But, we're not yet at that stage. I guess, however, that this being the Orient means, the concept of 'my fiefdom, my rice bowl' exists. And here in Thailand, we knew this about Provincial Immigration offices. Now, I guess, we have an example of same same for Provincial RD offices. Sadly, it's not that easy to ignore local edicts, if you don't want to cause unsolvable problems. Sigh.

You shall report all foreign transferred income in the tax return form and then you can proportionally subtract already paid foreign tax, if it's in accordance with the DTA. There is a field for deduction of already paid tax, but you might need to use the paper form when it's foreign tax. It's clearly stated in the rules. You will need attach documentation for already paid foreign tax, which is also clearly stated. That's is likely why you cannot find a "place to put income not subject to taxation".

However, I got no idea what might happen, if you have foreign transferred income and don't include it in your tax return – or don't make any tax return...

And as mentioned more detailed in an earlier reply about home check from the Thai revenue department, it was done before the new rules about foreign income from 2024, and based on nationality; i.e. country by country. All with same nationality as me in the area where I live was checked if we had paid tax on all transferred income. The check of foreign transfers for 2024 was a meting in the revenue office.

21 hours ago, JimGant said:

Where on that tax table you provided do you see that?

21 minutes ago, khunPer said:

And as mentioned more detailed in an earlier reply about home check from the Thai revenue department, it was done before the new rules about foreign income from 2024, and based on nationality; i.e. country by country. All with same nationality as me in the area where I live was checked if we had paid tax on all transferred income.

Not doubting what you say but it would be nice that other people residing in Samui could confirm, as you mentioned, that local Revenue Department is meticulously auditing all foreigners by nationality there since before 2024. Anyone?

20 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Its important to read the EXACT wording of the DTA, because many DTA are NOT like the Canada-Thailand DTA. I can only assume you have not looked at many DTA, which I suspect is also the case for most Thailand RD officials.

Article-18 of the Canada-Thailand DTA specifically states (and I quote - with edits to indicate the 'state's) :

1. Pensions and other similar remuneration, whether they consist of periodic or non-periodic payments, for past employment, arising in a Contracting State (Canada) and paid to a resident of the other Contracting state (Thailand) shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State (Canada).

I think the word "only" is pretty clear. "only" excludes Thailand taxing.

I don't know your country, but I suspect the DTA between your source income country and Canadat may not have the "only" qualification. The slides you seem to like to quote are generalities, and there are nuances that go deeper. I can look at the DTA of your source country, if you wish, and post what it says re: pensions from your source country. It may be only Thailand can tax such.

Take for example the German-Thailand DTA, ... in that case, 'state' pensions from the German government, to those who were NOT government employees, are NOT taxed by Germany if one is a Thailand tax resident, but ARE taxable by Thailand.

I sense you do not appreciate that there are differences here.

The saving's aspect is in addition to any DTA benefits. It does NOT supercede any DTA benefits. I sense you don't understand that.

More accurate is to state all transferred foreign income is subject to possible taxation, but other aspects come in to play, such as Double Tax Agreements (DTA). Those 1-Jan-2024 'changes' do NOT over rule DTA.

I sense you do not understand that.

No. That is not precise. In cases where BOTH countries can tax an income, per a DTA, then yes, tax credits come in to play. But in cases where only ONE country can tax an income, per a DTA, then there are no Tax credits involved.

I pointed out an example , Canada-Thailand DTA, where no tax credits come into play. Thailand has agreed NOT to tax that pension.

I pointed out an example, German-Thailand DTA, where no tax credits come into play, where for state (not-civil service) pensions, Germany does not tax that. (and I have a letter from the German government confirming that).

Germany has agreed NOT to tax that pension (of Thailand tax residents) who receive a German pension (non-civil service/non-military), but Thailand may tax that pension. i say 'may' because, if for example, one has an LTR-WP or LTR-WGC visa, and brings that pension into Thailand in a year OTHER than which it was earned, that pension is not taxable by Thailand for those specific visa holders. This is confirmed by a Thailand Royal Decree which means a LOT more than some slide presentation.

A further nuance, when it comes to German government pensions, to ex-civil servants/military-retired from Germany, the German-Thailand DTA notes Thailand is not to tax such a pension (unless the person receiving that German pension is a Thai citizen).

Again, there are nuances.

With respect, you have a lack of understanding of the Thailand Tax law, of the Double Tax agreements. When going to a local RD to discuss taxation, as an expat with foreign sourced income, be very cautious. Most people, including officials in the local RD offices, do not take the time to look at the Double Tax Agreements. One can easily walk away with the wrong assessment, if one does not take the time to review all the nuances.

For example, when my wife (on my behalf) chatted with the Phuket RD official, they had never heard of a Thailand Long Term Resident (LTR) visa. Its difficult to get an accurate answer from a local RD official, as expats like us are an usual case, and the local RD officials often do not know all the nuances. So care is needed.

A DTA is to avoid double taxation – simple as that – not that you shall not declare the income.

What's done in other countries – like Germany – got nothing to do with Thailand; in Thailand it's according to Thai law and rules. It's clearly stated by Thai Revenue Department that you can proportionally deduct foreign paid tax – to avoid double taxation – but you still need to declare foreign transferred income and thereafter show proof of already paid taxes attached to your Thai tax return.

All DTAs between Thailand and another state is said to be slightly different, according to Thai authorities in news articles.

However, you are of course welcome to use your detailed view when filing your tax return – or lack of same – perhaps nothing happens, perhaps the authorities don't check. I won't take the risk and therefore file my Thai tax return, including foreign transferred income from which I can deduct already paid foreign tax, which method has not only been accepted by the Thai revenue department for 2024, but the original tax return form was actually kindly filled by the revenue department themselves, as they realized that you cannot deduct foreign paid tax when using the online tax return-form, when I asked for advise about where to deduct my Danish withheld taxes. Seems like you must use the paper form.

I just kindly share my knowledge and experience – if you don't want to use it, then please file your tax return in the way that you think is right.

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

Where on that tax table you provided do you see that?

That table you provided inconveniently only says "foreign sourced income" remitted. It needs clarification by delineating between "assessable income" and "non assessable income." Non assessable is, of course, income exempted by DTA and Thai law, like Por 162 -- and which need not be shown on a Thai tax return, which it couldn't be anyway, as there's no place for it (there's not even a remarks section).

And, if this even needs to be stated -- credits are of course non applicable to non assessable income. So, no need to worry about where to put such non applicable credits. [Credits would only apply if both countries have taxation rights, like on rental income -- but a credit has to be absorbed only by the country having secondary taxation rights. My US rental income is, per DTA, taxable (assessable) by Thailand, if remitted; but Thailand is designated secondary, and thus has to absorb a credit for the taxes paid to the US.]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

I just kindly share my knowledge and experience – if you don't want to use it, then please file your tax return in the way that you think is right.

Are you a tax accountant? Because, my tax accountant (PwC) said any tax exempt income (non-assessable income) that I remit to Thailand does not need to be reported on a Thai tax return. Since all of the income I remit to Thailand is tax exempt by DTA (US social security) and tax exempt by Royal Decree 743 due to my LTR visa, I do not need to file a Thai tax return (as per PwC).

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

That table you provided inconveniently only says "foreign sourced income" remitted. It needs clarification by delineating between "assessable income" and "non assessable income." Non assessable is, of course, income exempted by DTA and Thai law, like Por 162 -- and which need not be shown on a Thai tax return, which it couldn't be anyway, as there's no place for it (there's not even a remarks section).

And, if this even needs to be stated -- credits are of course non applicable to non assessable income. So, no need to worry about where to put such non applicable credits. [Credits would only apply if both countries have taxation rights, like on rental income -- but a credit has to be absorbed only by the country having secondary taxation rights. My US rental income is, per DTA, taxable (assessable) by Thailand, if remitted; but Thailand is designated secondary, and thus has to absorb a credit for the taxes paid to the US.]

I believe more in both a director of a Thai revenue office, than a point of view of how the Thai rules shall be understood. But again, you can of course do it your way, I file my tax return form the way the revenue department ask for it – the outcome of Thai income tax might be exactly the same as if done from your point of view, but we don't know yet what the Thai authorities might do if not done their way – I just kindly shared facts and experience...🙂

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

Are you a tax accountant? Because, my tax accountant (PwC) said any tax exempt income (non-assessable income) that I remit to Thailand does not need to be reported on a Thai tax return. Since all of the income I remit to Thailand is tax exempt by DTA (US social security) and tax exempt by Royal Decree 743 due to my LTR visa, I do not need to file a Thai tax return (as per PwC).

I'm referring to he director of a Thai revenue department, with whom I had a meeting, because already paid foreign tax could not be deducted in the online tax return form. He and chief of office both stated that all foreign income – i.e., transfers that are not savings from before 2024 – now shall be stated in the tax return and paid foreign tax can be proportional deducted. It also fits with the official information, see earlier shared images.

But not filing tax return for already taxed foreign income, seemed to be the general way to do it before 2024-tax year. I didn't, and it was accepted back then.

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

However, I got no idea what might happen, if you have foreign transferred income and don't include it in your tax return – or don't make any tax return...

Based on past experience, absolutely nothing will happen.

99% + of foreigners , (tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people) never file Thai tax returns, for many years, despite technically being tax residents, and freely remit technically assessable foreign sourced income, with no consequences or enforcement.

Despite the internal interpretation change of 2024, there is zero sign any enforcement or practical change has occurred.

The status quo of many years remains: if you're not employed in Thailand or run a business/property here, you don't pay Thai tax , and have nothing to do with the TRD.

Thanks for sharing your experience, but it is an absolute outlier/ fringe case , and doesn't represent the reality for the vast majority of foreigners residing here.

29 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I believe more in both a director of a Thai revenue office, than a point of view of how the Thai rules shall be understood. But again, you can of course do it your way, I file my tax return form the way the revenue department ask for it – the outcome of Thai income tax might be exactly the same as if done from your point of view, but we don't know yet what the Thai authorities might do if not done their way – I just kindly shared facts and experience...🙂

I don't believe anything 'important' Thai people say.

They all got their jobs through corruption and nepotism and hardly know anything about their jobs or anything else.

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

A DTA is to avoid double taxation – simple as that – not that you shall not declare the income.

I will use Thai Tax law and use Royal Decrees and Double Tax Agreements and Thai Revenue Department ministerial directives for the specifics as to how Thai tax law is implemented. I feel very comfortable in doing so.

If you wish to go by a generic presentation missing massive amounts of important details and nuances - well -"fill your boots". Don't let me try to convince you otherwise.

I caution thou anyone else reading this, not to stop at that presentation without digging further into this. If you don't look further, you will be seriously mislead. Thai tax law as written is far far more important than some summary presentation that does not contain massive number of salient details.

26 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I'm referring to he director of a Thai revenue department, with whom I had a meeting, because already paid foreign tax could not be deducted in the online tax return form. He and chief of office both stated that all foreign income – i.e., transfers that are not savings from before 2024 – now shall be stated in the tax return and paid foreign tax can be proportional deducted. It also fits with the official information, see earlier shared images.

But not filing tax return for already taxed foreign income, seemed to be the general way to do it before 2024-tax year. I didn't, and it was accepted back then.

I suspect you misunderstood him or he misunderstood you.

It has already been confirmed by the Thailand Revenue Department headquarters in Bangkok that some examples (not all examples) of foreign income (which is not assessable) is excluded Thailand taxation and need not be used in assessing if a Thailand tax form need be remitted - - - nor even if a tax form is remitted (for other reasons) should such income be included on the tax form. RD Ministerial Instructions, Royal Decrees, Double Tax Agreement specific wording, and Thai tax law are relevant here.

But as I noted before - don't let me stop you.

I caution others thou, don't blindly proceed down the same path. Research the tax law and your DTAs.

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

A DTA is to avoid double taxation – simple as that – not that you shall not declare the income. What's done in other countries – like Germany – got nothing to do with Thailand; in Thailand it's according to Thai law and rules. It's clearly stated by Thai Revenue Department that you can proportionally deduct foreign paid tax – to avoid double taxation – but you still need to declare foreign transferred income and thereafter show proof of already paid taxes attached to your Thai tax return.

You really need to take the time to read Thai tax law if you wish to debate this. Because what you typed is not precise in accordance with Thai tax law. OK. It is not.

In Thailand you need to declare assessable income if it is remitted.

Clearly you do not know what that word assessable means.

Since you refuse to undersand such, for others reading, I do recommend others research this. Do NOT by any means rely on what "khunPer" believes.

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

A DTA is to avoid double taxation – simple as that – not that you shall not declare the income.

DTAs as part of the avoidance of Double Taxation, in some cases make it clear that some income can NOT be taxed by the other country signing the agreement. That means that some income is NOT to be declared in some cases - in particular in some cases not declared if said country is a remittance based taxation system. The devil (or angel dependent on one's specifics) is in the details.

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

What's done in other countries – like Germany – got nothing to do with Thailand; in Thailand it's according to Thai law and rules.

I gave you two DTA examples which are very different.

(1) Canada-Thailand - Thailand can NOT tax pensions (from Canada) of any Canadian expats resident in Thailand. Such does not go on any Thai tax form nor is it to be used to assess if a Thai tax form needs to be submitted. It is exempt as the DTA is called up by Royal Decree.

(2) Germany-Thailand - this is the opposite of Canada for some pensions. In the case of German-Thai tax agreement only Thailand can tax some German sourced pensions (of expats resident in Thailand) and Germany can not tax.

the point I am making is different DTA have different meanings.

Germany IS relevant to make my point as it is so very different from that of Canada in regard to some pensions being taxable, or not taxable, by Thailand..

Again, I recommend all expats, take the time, look at the DTA between Thailand and the source country of your income.

If your DTA is too difficult to understand, post the salient details of your income, note the income source country, and get the view of some Aseannow forum members.

There are some very good knowledgeable members of this forum who can likely provide some help.

10 hours ago, khunPer said:

And as mentioned more detailed in an earlier reply about home check from the Thai revenue department, it was done before the new rules about foreign income from 2024, and based on nationality; i.e. country by country. All with same nationality as me in the area where I live was checked if we had paid tax on all transferred income. The check of foreign transfers for 2024 was a meting in the revenue office.

With respect to all posters involved in this khunPer has broached his specific tax situation before, a number of times. If I remember correctly the main reason to be sort of singled out, along with his and similar countrymen, was due to the specific DTAs with mainly the Scandinavian countries where in some cases it made more sense to pay tax in Thailand rather than the home country. The bit I cannot remember is whether it was more driven by home country tax offices checking up or the Thai RD......

Now you may shoot me down in flames but the only other posters who have, in the past, commented similarly to you, have come from one of the Scandinavian countries.

11 hours ago, khunPer said:

and based on nationality; i.e. country by country.

As someone else noted, and I have not heard any mention otherwise, I would question if tax residents from other western nations like the US, UK, Australia, Canada etc with very different DTAs have been called in - but happy to be proven wrong?

9 hours ago, topt said:

With respect to all posters involved in this khunPer has broached his specific tax situation before, a number of times. If I remember correctly the main reason to be sort of singled out, along with his and similar countrymen, was due to the specific DTAs with mainly the Scandinavian countries where in some cases it made more sense to pay tax in Thailand rather than the home country. The bit I cannot remember is whether it was more driven by home country tax offices checking up or the Thai RD......

Now you may shoot me down in flames but the only other posters who have, in the past, commented similarly to you, have come from one of the Scandinavian countries.

As someone else noted, and I have not heard any mention otherwise, I would question if tax residents from other western nations like the US, UK, Australia, Canada etc with very different DTAs have been called in - but happy to be proven wrong?

I also remember that a Scandinavian forum member who reported that it was more advantageous for them to pay taxes in Thailand rather than in Scandinavia. Khunper states that he was contacted by the RD before 2024 regarding taxes on income from abroad transferred to Thailand. The initiative must have come from the Scandinavians itself, because before 2024 income from abroad transfered to thailand was not taxable. I and many acquaintances of mine also live in the Surat Thani (Phang Nga) RD division, and we were informed by the local RD department that we don't have to file a tax return if the money we transfer to Thailand is non-taxable income. Some of my acquaintances were even told that money from a Social Security fund is also exempt from tax under Thai tax law.

40 minutes ago, Sato said:

... because before 2024 income from abroad transfered to thailand was not taxable ...

.... Some of my acquaintances were even told that money from a Social Security fund is also exempt from tax under Thai tax law ...

two notes about your post:

money that was transferred to thailand in the same year it was earned also had to be taxed before 2024.

most people simply did not know this and/or ignored it ...

depending on the DTA (61 countries), certain types of income (for example social security funds) may not have to be taxed in thailand.

but keep in mind that each country has different tax laws and a different DTA with thailand ...

in the whole debate about the adjusted tax regulation (per 2024), whether it will be enforced or not,

one important point is often ignored. it is a legally binding tax law ...

some see it like this: we are just guests here with a limited permission to stay, and we should behave accordingly.

we should not compare ourselves with some local thai people who do not follow the (tax) law ...

but some see it like this: we do the same as the locals. we do not follow the tax laws, we drive drunk,

we don't pay speeding tickets, we teach our children to ride motorbikes at the age of 12 or drive cars at 16,

drink too much and act like monkeys ... and so on ...

34 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

two notes about your post:

money that was transferred to thailand in the same year it was earned also had to be taxed before 2024.

most people simply did not know this and/or ignored it ...

depending on the DTA (61 countries), certain types of income (for example social security funds) may not have to be taxed in thailand.

but keep in mind that each country has different tax laws and a different DTA with thailand ...

That's correct.. Money that was transferred to thailand in the same year it was earned was taxable. But the Thai authorities didn't pursue it because it wouldn't have been worth their while. Otherwise, everyone would have simply transferred the money the following year.
Regarding my statement that 'money from a Social Security fund is also exempt from tax under Thai tax law'. I did not refer to DTA's but to the Thai tax law itself.
In article 42, 25  'Payments from social insurance fund are exempt from tax'.

19 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

but some see it like this: we do the same as the locals. we do not follow the tax laws,

Regarding taxes: that's not our fault. The Thai authorities have (once again) passed a half-baked law. As it stands (remittance), the law is unenforceable and will never work. It's understandable that it has zero acceptance among foreigners. You can't make foreigners pay taxes while simultaneously denying them proper residency permits and discriminating against them at every turn.

1 minute ago, Sato said:

You can't make foreigners pay taxes while simultaneously denying them proper residency permits and discriminating against them at every turn.

no, they can do whatever they want. it is their country, and we are only guests ...

for example, the immigration authorities make our lives difficult whenever possible ... they do whatever they want with us!

i hope the thai tax revenue department will not do the same in the future ... 🙂

24 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

but some see it like this: we do the same as the locals. we do not follow the tax laws, we drive drunk,

we don't pay speeding tickets, we teach our children to ride motorbikes at the age of 12 or drive cars at 16,

drink too much and act like monkeys ... and so on ...

Certainly the less harmful approach, here and anywhere one happens to be. However, anyone with a functioning brain would use what is called "discernment".

15 minutes ago, Sato said:

In article 42, 25  'Payments from social insurance fund are exempt from tax'.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section42

i’m not sure whether this article 42 (25) includes money that was transferred to thailand ... or ist this for thai social secourty fund only ... ???

4 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

no, they can do whatever they want. it is their country, and we are only guests ...

for example, the immigration authorities make our lives difficult whenever possible ... they do whatever they want with us!

i hope the thai tax revenue department will not do the same in the future ... 🙂

Yes their country and they can do what they want (and they do so).
If I would have a proper residency permit and dual pricing wouldn’t exist I would be happy to pay tax. Until then there are under this tax regime (remittance) hundred’s of way's not to pay tax legally.

5 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section42

i’m not sure whether this article 42 (25) includes money that was transferred to thailand ... or ist this for thai social secourty fund only ... ???

The article does not specify 'only for Thai social security fund'. How Thai authorities will interpret this article is currently unknown. I'm afraid it could take years (and a court decision) until it will be crystal clear.

6 minutes ago, Sato said:

The article does not specify 'only for Thai social security fund'. How Thai authorities will interpret this article is currently unknown. I'm afraid it could take years (and a court decision) until it will be crystal clear.

i do not agree. i believe that the DTA does state where income from social security and similar sources transfered to thailand must be taxed ... whether in the home country, in thailand, or not taxed at all ...

16 hours ago, khunPer said:

I'm referring to he director of a Thai revenue department, with whom I had a meeting, because already paid foreign tax could not be deducted in the online tax return form. He and chief of office both stated that all foreign income – i.e., transfers that are not savings from before 2024 – now shall be stated in the tax return and paid foreign tax can be proportional deducted. It also fits with the official information, see earlier shared images.

I don't doubt you were told what you wrote above, "that all foreign income ... now shall be stated in a tax return", but what you were told is between you and those local tax officials. What those local officials told you have nothing whatsoever to do with my tax situation, or anyone else who lives outside of their jurisdiction. Despite what you were told, there are absolutely some types of income that are tax exempt and do not need to be declared on a Thai tax return. I posted some examples earlier. The local officials you spoke to do not have the authority to override DTAs & Royal Decrees. If the Director-General of the Thai Revenue Department ever issues a statement similar to what your local officials told you, then I will be concerned. Until then, I will continue to follow the Thai tax laws, DTAs & Royal Decrees, and the advice from my tax firm, PwC. Have a good day...

12 hours ago, topt said:

With respect to all posters involved in this khunPer has broached his specific tax situation before, a number of times. If I remember correctly the main reason to be sort of singled out, along with his and similar countrymen, was due to the specific DTAs with mainly the Scandinavian countries where in some cases it made more sense to pay tax in Thailand rather than the home country. The bit I cannot remember is whether it was more driven by home country tax offices checking up or the Thai RD......

@topt ... well spotted. I suspect being from a Scandinavian country KhunPer did not check DTAs of Thailand with other non-Scandinavian countries and hence not know the differences. ... and of course, if one has no income from other countries, why check other DTAs? There is logically no need.

Out of curiousity I took a look at pensions of some Scandinavian countries DTA with Thailand. In all cases, for Scandinavian countries Thailand can tax such pensions in most cases.

Denmark-Thailand DTA. Article-18: Pensions (and similar remunerations) arising in a Contracting state (Denmark) and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State (Thailand) .... may be taxed in both Contracting States.

Norway-Thailand DTA. Article-18: Pensions (including Government pensions and payments under a social security system) and annuities paid to a resident of a Contracting State (Thailand) shall only be taxable in that State (Thailand).

Sweden-Thailand DTA. Article-18 (2)(a): Any pension paid by, or out of funds created by, a Contracting state (Sweden), or a political subdivision or a local authority therof to an individual respect of services rendered to that State (Sweden) or subdivision or authority, shall taxable only in that State (Sweden).

(2)(b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other Contracting state (Thailand) if the individual is a resident of, and a national of, that other state (Thailand).

My initial interpretation from that is for tax residents of Thailand with pension (fully remitted in year of earning) from:

- Denmark - both Thailand and Denmark can tax the pension from Denmark

- Norway - only Thailand can tax pensions from Norway

- Sweden - only Sweden can tax the pension of former civil servants/military. Its not clear to me but i suspect Thailand can tax other (retired who are no ex-civil servant, and not ex-military) pensions from Sweden

There are also clauses providing more nuances, such as clauses under interest, dividends, capital gains, but given I am not from Scandinavia, I elected not to compare those.

Out of curiousity I limited my time spent to looking at pensions, as I was endeavouring to understand where Khun Per was coming from in his views, and it does appear that his view applies to Scandinavian countries, as you noted.

Obviously other countries have different agreements with Thailand, so what applies to Scandinavian countries may in many cases simply does not apply to other countries.

My guess is the RD official Khun Per was chatting with were focused on the case of people from Scandinavian countries who are now Thai tax residents.

Also there are other nuances, such as in terms of per-1-Jan-2024 savings (not assessable income if remitted to Thailand), and one being on an LTR visa (not assessable income if remitted to Thaliand in a year other than the year in which it was earned).

One last point - I am not a tax advisor, so anyone with income from Denmark, Norway or Sweden really needs to dive into this in more detail than my initial skimming through, as is entirely feasible i don't have the above 100% correct for those countries. Rather my point here, is every DTA with Thailand is different, and some exclude Thailand taxation, and many do not exclude Thailand taxation.

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