4 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Who is Shirley, and what has she got to do with learning Thai?

You know; it's just a proper noun having the same meaning as assuredly.

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

People don’t want to hear it, but learning script is key.

I know this is true.

You know this is ture.

But, do THEY know this is true?

No. They will not recognize that this is true.

Why?

Cognitive Dissonance.

They think learning Thai Script is too....BOOKISH for them.

They want to take the shortcut to disaster, instead.

As we always tell those who know something is true, yet do the opposite....

One can lead a horse to water, but, you can't make it drink

Same, same, with humans talking about learning Thai.

It's all talk.

They won't drink the Kool-Ade.

4 hours ago, cdemundo said:

I feel like it can't be emphasized enough.

What worked for others just might work for you.

This thread is a great resource for ideas and thing to try from self-proclaimed non-experts just telling what worked for them.

As far as the self-proclaimed experts who say must do this, must not do that... it ain't necessarily so.

4 hours ago, cdemundo said:

I feel like it can't be emphasized enough.

What worked for others just might work for you.

This thread is a great resource for ideas and thing to try from self-proclaimed non-experts just telling what worked for them.

As far as the self-proclaimed experts who say must do this, must not do that... it ain't necessarily so.

4 hours ago, cdemundo said:

I feel like it can't be emphasized enough.

What worked for others just might work for you.

This thread is a great resource for ideas and thing to try from self-proclaimed non-experts just telling what worked for them.

As far as the self-proclaimed experts who say must do this, must not do that... it ain't necessarily so.

This is too true, everyone probably learns foreign languages in a different manner. I have studied over 12 languages during my lifetime and think that I am quite well in learning a new one but my youngest daughter, almost 60 years younger than me can run rings around me so to speak with how easy foreign languages are for her, she speaks, reads, writes and teaches in four languages, all with a different writing script, two with tones and two without tones. At one time while in HS, she was studying 4 languages at the same time and never mixed them up. Amazing. One should experiment with different opening lessons and see which fits your mind processing each and then go after that which seems to fit you.

12 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Please provide your evidence for absolutely refuting my statement....!!!!

I know I am right.

Me. I'm your evidence.

I learnt bybthe immersion method. I went out and spoke with the locals. Shopping, drinking, eating, all in places where I needed to speak Thai.

I didn't learn to read until 2 years later.

Think about how you learnt to speak your mother tongue. Learning a second language is exactly the same.

22 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

You know; it's just a proper noun having the same meaning as assuredly.

"Assuredly" is not a noun. It's an adverb. Shirley means "bright meadow".

And you are trying to advise on learning language? 5555

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

"Assuredly" is not a noun. It's an adverb. Shirley means "bright meadow".

And you are trying to advise on learning language? 5555

Yes. I am advising on language learning, or L2 learning, actually.

And, Shirley is a proper noun. And Shirley is just a synonym for assuredly, Shirley.

2 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Yes. I am advising on language learning, or L2 learning, actually.

And, Shirley is a proper noun. And Shirley is just a synonym for assuredly, Shirley.

Correct. "Shirley" is a noun. Meaning "bright meadow". "Assuredly" is an adverb. As I previously explained.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/assuredly

On 3/23/2026 at 10:20 AM, MikeWill said:

where to start

Gor Gai.

6 hours ago, cdemundo said:

There is a website with free and inexpensive paid memberships that has been helpful to me.
LearnWithOliver dot com

I check out the site. It does seem to be a good one for those just starting. Some of the clearest pronunciations I have heard on an online course.

I want to add a little known site

https://lingopolo.org/

6 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

I used to take lessons from my sons' thai teacher from their school on a Saturday morning. My sons had extra lessons, i had to take them and sit and wait, so my wife arranged some lessons for me.

Teacher couldn't speak English. It meant I had 55 minutes of speaking or trying to speak Thai - no slipping in to English.

In around 10 lessons or so there was only one occasion when we couldn't understand each other. I was trying to explain that I only liked coffee from coffee beans (เมล็ดกาแฟ met karfae) but I was wrongly saying ถั่ว (tua) for beans. Teacher couldn't even guess what I was trying to say. My bilingual sons translated my explanation to the teacher after my lesson was over.

So I disagree with your post.

I worked on a project in Paris and the British guy in charge was absolutely fluent in French, when I asked him how he'd learnt it so well he told me that he spent 6 months on a farm in the french countryside where if you couldn't ask for it in French, you couldn't have it.

Taking over a French company didn't get us much cooperation from the locals so I was surprised how quickly my school boy French came back to me again.

Thaipod101.com is the best online site to learn

Thai ,after many years looking for a decent

logical way to learn this is it….👍

10 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Utter nonsense. How on earth can you practise if the other person has no command of your own home language to teach you.

How does she communicate with you - sign language? This flies in the face of all teaching protocol.

Has to be one of the worst takes on this forum i've ever read.

That's not true, I never progressed as quickly as when I was surrounded by non-English speaking Thai natives.

5 hours ago, 86Tiger said:

ASEANNow never disappoints.

Regardless of the topic the discussion will always devolve into bickering like a bunch of old ladies.

To amuse myself, I like to count how many posts before the shenanigans start 🤣

22 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

if you couldn't ask for it in French, you couldn't have it.

You've just described life in France for non-french.😁

20 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

I worked on a project in Paris and the British guy in charge was absolutely fluent in French, when I asked him how he'd learnt it so well he told me that he spent 6 months on a farm in the french countryside where if you couldn't ask for it in French, you couldn't have it.

Taking over a French company didn't get us much cooperation from the locals so I was surprised how quickly my school boy French came back to me again.

France is a good example, as the French are notoriously unwilling to speak anything other than French. The result is that foreigners learn the language very quickly in general. The human brain is very resourceful and performs well if/when required.

10 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Utter nonsense. How on earth can you practise if the other person has no command of your own home language to teach you.

How does she communicate with you - sign language? This flies in the face of all teaching protocol.

Has to be one of the worst takes on this forum i've ever read.

If you are correct, how on earth does anyone learn to speak any language, including your mother tongue?

1 minute ago, Bredbury Blue said:

You've just described life in France for non-french.😁

For the first few weeks. 😄

I completely agree with the assessment that Becker's 'Fundamentals of the Thai Language' is an excellent and probably the best place to start. I only say probably because it has been decades since I began studying Thai and I am not very familiar with what other resources are currently available.

A huge advantage of this book is that it uses the most accurate international phonetic alphabet which is the same phonetic alphabet used in Mary Haas' Thai-English Student's Dictionary (ISBN 0-8047-0567-4) With just these two resources you can make a tremendous amount of progress if you apply yourself. The problem with transliteration pronunciation guides which attempt to use the English alphabet is that they are imprecise and non-standardized, so the transliteration guides bounce around from grammar book to grammar book which is extremely inefficient.

For several reasons, those who claim that learning the Thai writing system it is not a prerequisite for progressing beyond a beginner's level, in my opinion, are giving misguided advice. Not only will you not be able to differentiate between all of the unique sounds of the Thai language, but if you think you can build and retain a large vocabulary without mastering the writing system, you're kidding yourself. Finally, NO Thai/English dictionary or phrase books which go beyond elementary vocabulary rely on English transliteration to guide pronunciation. In other words, with all Thai dictionaries beyond intermediate level, if you look up a word in Thai script (which, by the way, you won't be able to do unless you master the writing system), the dictionary, if it gives a pronunciation guide at all, will use Thai script to guide pronunciation. So if you elect not to bother to learn the Thai writing system, all Thai dictionaries will be unavailable as learning resources. That is not a recipe for success, and predictions that you will end up frustrated and giving up are well-founded.

Edit:

The idea that a person without any background in the language can learn Thai "between the sheets" or by immersing yourself in a Thai community is very misleading. Sure, you can pick up words and phrases, but, in my opinion, that's about it. First of all it presumes that there is an endless supply of willing AND capable teachers who can guide you. Speaking Thai and being able to teach Thai to a non-native speaker are not the same things. With the prevalence of English nowadays, someone will quickly switch to English as soon as your lack of proficiency reveals itself. I have found, with the exception of young children, that Thais have low tolerances and patience for poor pronunciation, and even decent pronunciation from non-native speakers. Even spouses and girlfriends seem to have limited appetite for being turned into a Thai tutor. While some will disagree, and claim - usually online - to have made great and lasting progress using the "immersion" method, in my experience 95% of guys who head out to rural Thailand with rudimentary Thai have made minimal progress even after decades of "immersion."

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Me. I'm your evidence.

I learnt bybthe immersion method. I went out and spoke with the locals. Shopping, drinking, eating, all in places where I needed to speak Thai.

I didn't learn to read until 2 years later.

Think about how you learnt to speak your mother tongue. Learning a second language is exactly the same.

this method used by governments around the world is called "Total Immersion" and with an open mind and good ears can be done quite well.

Just now, Presnock said:

this method used by governments around the world is called "Total Immersion" and with an open mind and good ears can be done quite well.

Yes, i know and agree.

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

France is a good example, as the French are notoriously unwilling to speak anything other than French. The result is that foreigners learn the language very quickly in general. The human brain is very resourceful and performs well if/when required.

I always recall how snooty the French were unless one could speak French as a native does so they looked down on us speaking high school French! did my tourist bit and never went back.

@MikeWill: the people who recommend learning to read are giving you the best advice. If you really want to learn to speak Thai well then reading makes it so much easier. However, start the same way Thais do, find a bookstore that sells the little booklets the Thai kiddies use, these start off with simple words and simple sentence structure..."the cat sat on the mat" sort of stuff that we English speakers began with. Anyway, learning to read basic Thai is really quite easy and once you learn to read you'll be learning new words everywhere you look.

46 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I always recall how snooty the French were unless one could speak French as a native does so they looked down on us speaking high school French! did my tourist bit and never went back.

Yeah, they do that. 😄 Partly because they are insecure about their own inability to speak any foreign language (I am French by the way).

11 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

If you are correct, how on earth does anyone learn to speak any language, including your mother tongue?

and

Just now, Presnock said:

I always recall how snooty the French were unless one could speak French as a native does so they looked down on us speaking high school French! did my tourist bit and never went back.

, one doesn't begin writing usually until after a few years of speaking that new tongue.

27 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Yeah, they do that. 😄 Partly because they are insecure about their own inability to speak any foreign language (I am French by the way).

27 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Yeah, they do that. 😄 Partly because they are insecure about their own inability to speak any foreign language (I am French by the way).

27 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Yeah, they do that. 😄 Partly because they are insecure about their own inability to speak any foreign language (I am French by the way).

well I am an American and it got so bad in the US that colleges dropped a foreign language requirement for HS graduates as most Americans expect the whole world to speak and understand English yet many non-Indian (native Americans) Americans speak English rather poorly IMHO though I am by no means an expert on this issue.

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

well I am an American and it got so bad in the US that colleges dropped a foreign language requirement for HS graduates as most Americans expect the whole world to speak and understand English yet many non-Indian (native Americans) Americans speak English rather poorly IMHO though I am by no means an expert on this issue.

Yes, native English speakers are actually the worst IME, but they get away with it (and are not encouraged to make any effort) because they already speak the 'universal language'.

10 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Oh dear, now it´s evidence talk again! No need, as I know many people, including myself, that has learned Thai in many different ways. They are getting along great, and there is no failure whatsoever. Just because you have a working concept for you, does not mean it´s the only way. Too many of you, know it all, guys here. Break your bubble, get out, smell the air and get some better insight of things.

I have even heard of people who learn passa Thai by singing Thai, hopefully in the shower.

Yet, this does not mean that it is a good way, or an effective way.

One can learn Thai by being sent to prison, in some cases, and be taught for free.

But, I would not wish to learn Thai this way.

As has been substantiated by other commentators here, the only way to really learn Thai is through learning Thai script, and doing it first.

No system of romanization can adequately represent all sounds and tones of passa Thai.

Chinese, however, is a bit different since each single logograph.

I want evidence, in all cases.

Give me the evidence and nothing but the evidence.

Unsupported "feelings" about reality is a totally foreign concept to me.

15 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Please provide your evidence for absolutely refuting my statement....!!!!

I know I am right.

The evidence is all around you, in the fact that every child that learns to speak, does so without having learned to read and write first.

Now, when I learned Thai, I did learn the Thai alphabet, and learned to read and write Thai but it is absolutely not the only way to learn. My daughter, for instance, speaks fluent Thai (much, much better than mine) but she never did learn to read or write Thai, beyond knowing how to write her own name.

4 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

The evidence is all around you, in the fact that every child that learns to speak, does so without having learned to read and write first.

Now, when I learned Thai, I did learn the Thai alphabet, and learned to read and write Thai but it is absolutely not the only way to learn. My daughter, for instance, speaks fluent Thai (much, much better than mine) but she never did learn to read or write Thai, beyond knowing how to write her own name.

It's not a question of whether it is possible to learn some Thai without learning to read and write the language. The question is how far can you go without learning to read and write. I, too, spent my first year and a half memorizing vocabulary and phrases and listening to tapes without learning the writing system. That was not a waste of time by any means, but my progress increased many fold after I took the time to master the writing system. Also, I am extremely confident that an adult non-native learner will almost always plateau out once they reach the limits of phrase book Thai unless they invest in learning the writing system.

Numerous people on this thread have claimed that learning the writing system isn't necessary, but then go on to say they eventually learned the writing system, which begs the question, if not learning the writing system can result in equally positive results, why did these people eventually buckle down and learn the writing system?

As to the argument that children learn a language before learning to read and write, so why can't I?, "learning a second language (L2) differs from acquiring a mother tongue (L1) primarily because L1 is an unconscious, natural immersion process from birth, while L2 is usually a conscious, formal learning process later in life. Adults learning an L2 face challenges like cognitive interference, limited time, and existing mental language patterns, unlike children who effortlessly absorb their first language."

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Me. I'm your evidence.

I learnt bybthe immersion method. I went out and spoke with the locals. Shopping, drinking, eating, all in places where I needed to speak Thai.

I didn't learn to read until 2 years later.

Think about how you learnt to speak your mother tongue. Learning a second language is exactly the same.

You sound like one of those lucky people who can just ‘pick up’ a new language as an adult. For most of us, learning a new language as an adult is totally different from the effortless way we acquired our native language as a child. Our brains no longer have the structures required to effortlessly learn new things. For the same reason, someone who first learns to drive a racing car as an adult is unlikely to be anywhere near as good as someone who was competing in kart races at the age of six.

After an embarrassingly long period of struggling to learn Thai, I know that no matter how hard I try, I’ll never be able to progress beyond very simple conversations, and will never be able to understand a Thai news bulletin, let alone a Thai soap opera. By contrast, I found learning to read Thai very easy. After all, you only have to memorise an alphabet, and while it might be somewhat larger than the English alphabet, it’s not as if it’s thousands of Chinese characters. The colossal amount of data you have to memorise in grammatical structures and thousands of words needed to speak fairly competent Thai is hugely more difficult.