Can't Do The Language, Eat The Food, Or Work Legally, So....

[zorro1]

PB im like you, 50% wants me outta here 50% wants me to stay, my girlfriend is on and off with me, so If she doesnt change I think Ill go, she was the only reason for me to be here in the first place, goodluck.

Me you and a thousand others came here for the same reason. She wont change! but in my case I did. I took off back home and resumed my old lifestyle and quickly realised that 10% of me wanted to be home so the other 90% took over and am now living in BKK.

[zorro1]

PB" Knowing just a tad about your background, I suspect you are ready for another adventure. The negatives you posted are shared by me and in addition, I abhor the climate, except in "season" in Chiang Mai.

Having lived in many countries and had many adventures of living, you may well be used to the excitement and challenges of new places to live and your current angst suggests Thailand has lost its adventure for you. Perhaps you are a adventurous by nature and are destined to move on to a new country after a few years as a pattern of life.

You may have not built a home here or have a love interest which are big impediments to moving on, especially when you can't take the love interest along.

As you get older, family may well become more important, I find the lure of Australia greater every year as my daughter has had my first grandchild and with one in the oven. I was there for the first one and will go back for the second.

As some have suggested, perhaps a bi-country approach should be considered. Six months in one country and six months in another. Since weather is a big one for me, winters in Australia which coincide with summer here is a very attractive alternative. But as has been posted, it may require saving money during my six months here, so I can afford to live for six months there. By the way, online visas for six months are a big attraction of Australia.

Someone suggested you go on an extended vacation to another country that intrigues you and I agree that is an excellent idea. After six months, re-evaluate and perhaps you will end up being a "snow bird" or, better yet, a "weather bird" like me and be "bi", as to countries that is!.

online 6 month visa? can you elaborate thanks

[Jingthing]

Holiday visa to Australia, mate:

http://www.visafirst.com/australian_logn_t...ss_676_Info.asp

[thaiman]

you should leave for awhile. if you miss thailand then you can come back and try again. your posting is too negative, sounds like you need a break for awhile

[Jingthing]

Agree with many points, but all in all CR lacks the cultural diversity Thailand has. By comparison, CR feels rather monotonous. Esp the food. wink.gif People are not as friendly either, and I don't think personal security is comparable with Thailand. No place in Thailand, for example, is as hairy as Puerto Limon. Higher cost of living, nearly double

Costa Rica has some mighty bland (boring) food! hel_l for me, but maybe good for PB. True, it is high crime there also in San Jose. They are not as keen now to attract expats, but still possible.

[girlx]

Two farang missionaries just left my house - when they left, I asked them how long they'd been here - their answer, 3 months. The whole conversation we had was in Thai(apart from a couple of words). They said they had studied one hour a week for 2 months before they came.

i find this really hard to believe.

Agree with many points, but all in all CR lacks the cultural diversity Thailand has. By comparison, CR feels rather monotonous. Esp the food. People are not as friendly either, and I don't think personal security is comparable with Thailand. No place in Thailand, for example, is as hairy as Puerto Limon. Higher cost of living, nearly double.

i went to see costa rica a couple years ago to see if i liked it as much as thailand and i agree with you- not nearly as diverse, interesting, or fun as thailand. horrible food. very unsafe feeling in some areas.

[Pundi64]

Should I bother to stay in Thailand if it's obvious that I will never speak or read Thai, never hold an in-depth conversation with many Thais? Cannot eat the food, although I like the climate and the people? And after four years, it seems unlikely or impossible that I will work legally?

In other words, without having compelling reasons to stay here (such as being destitute, having wife or children here who can't leave, performing work that I cannot do anywhere else, etc.), why stay here, especially if there are other countries just as warm, more welcoming to strangers, closer to home, where I can work and hold conversations and eat most of their food?

Am I the only one who meets the above criteria, or are others realizing they could be happier outside of Thailand? I haven't even mentioned the baht/US$ exchange ratio, or loved ones living an average of 10 time zones from me, or the possibility that some day the retirement visa criteria will be revised so that I don't qualify when I'm 69 or 77 years old and infirm.

Can anybody give me a convincing reason to stay, or shall I take the advice that if I don't like it, I can just leave?

Thanks in advance for your responses, even those I don't want to read.

SEE YA !!

[Theyreallrubbish]

When I first came I learned the language and even how to read and write. Useless. You only need fairly rudimentary Thai 99% of the time. The Thais that are educated enough to have a more complex conversation with are all good English speakers. Most of my Thai friends were educated overseas from a young age and English is their preferred language, they speak it to each other or with a smattering of Thai words between mostly English sentences. Despite spending almost 100% of my time with Thai people in Thailand my Thai has degenerated to the point I can no longer read and write it and can only have a basic conversation

Even if you don't like Thai food, how can you possibly ignore the fact that in any of the major towns there is a huge variety of international cuisines at prices that are a fraction of what it would be in the West? Bangkok probably has more international restaurants than London! And the prices are neglible even at decent places.

Living in Thailand introduced me to a huge variety of international cuisines I'd never experienced before, not just Thai food.

Working legally and the visa issues and property ownership issues etc are a pain, especially compared to how free and easy it was in the 90s. But the positive side of that is that hopefully fewer of the Western criminals and tattooed yobs will be polluting the place with their violence. My fellow countrymen are among the worst and I for one wouldn't be upset if the Thais tightened up visa requirements even further. If you're educated, have preserved a semblence of a work ethic, and are willing to make an effort, its not that hard to find a way to stay.

[aqua4]

Two farang missionaries just left my house - when they left, I asked them how long they'd been here - their answer, 3 months. The whole conversation we had was in Thai(apart from a couple of words). They said they had studied one hour a week for 2 months before they came.

i find this really hard to believe.

Agree with many points, but all in all CR lacks the cultural diversity Thailand has. By comparison, CR feels rather monotonous. Esp the food. People are not as friendly either, and I don't think personal security is comparable with Thailand. No place in Thailand, for example, is as hairy as Puerto Limon. Higher cost of living, nearly double.

i went to see costa rica a couple years ago to see if i liked it as much as thailand and i agree with you- not nearly as diverse, interesting, or fun as thailand. horrible food. very unsafe feeling in some areas.

Must be Mormons. The two I met spoke Thai VERY well. They had training before they came.

[Jeff1]

I know that it gets that way sometimes and at times they want you to feel that way but you came here for your own personal reasons. These are the same reasons that you should stay here. Try not to worry about fitting in, as you never will. Make this the place that you want it to be for you. It is "up to you" as to how it will be for YOU. I have found that the trick is to not let people know what you really think. They will tell everybody they know and ................. If you like it here, then make it yours. Make it so #1

[qwertz]

PB's problem is a common one.

We have too many choices and different reasons for visiting or staying.

If it was the cheap living costs, from what I hear, it's no longer so cheap.

Food - I had an excellent Thai meal yesterday in Melbourne.

Weather - I can think of better climates.

People - same same but different.

I'd make a good advertisement for Thai tourism because after many trips I still haven't found anywhere better to chill out cheap.

As for living there full time - no way.

To the thai people I'm a farang and always will be.

BTW, I'm an expat, 18 years now in Germany where I'm accepted, not regarded as a farang.

[retiredusn]

Should I bother to stay in Thailand if it's obvious that I will never speak or read Thai, never hold an in-depth conversation with many Thais? Cannot eat the food, although I like the climate and the people? And after four years, it seems unlikely or impossible that I will work legally?

In other words, without having compelling reasons to stay here (such as being destitute, having wife or children here who can't leave, performing work that I cannot do anywhere else, etc.), why stay here, especially if there are other countries just as warm, more welcoming to strangers, closer to home, where I can work and hold conversations and eat most of their food?

Am I the only one who meets the above criteria, or are others realizing they could be happier outside of Thailand? I haven't even mentioned the baht/US$ exchange ratio, or loved ones living an average of 10 time zones from me, or the possibility that some day the retirement visa criteria will be revised so that I don't qualify when I'm 69 or 77 years old and infirm.

Can anybody give me a convincing reason to stay, or shall I take the advice that if I don't like it, I can just leave?

Thanks in advance for your responses, even those I don't want to read.

Take a look at "Lake Chapala Mexico" forum. Interesting and possible. Mexican visa is fairly easy to get for retirement and the price is not bad at all. Good luck with your decision

[bingobongo]

I would suggest that if you can, take a holiday to wherever you would consider living next. Maybe this will help you reach some conclusion. Maybe you will see that you are just going through a bad stage at the moment or maybe you will see that Thailand just isn't for you.

Life is too short to waste it spending time in a place where you're not really happy.

I admire PB's frankness - particularly on an open forum where some are quick to thrash others behind their veil of anonymity - though the lion's share of the responses have been decent and thoughtful. I too have had doubts about residing here - especially during a several-year phase when things were getting stolen by hill tribe workers who I thought I could trust (I have since been a lot less trusting). I also have had trouble getting a decent handle on the language, and am not keen on the food. However, I do have tangible activities that I enjoy (gardening, writing, etc) some of which generates a bit of income - though money is tight at best of times for me - which is a big reason for having no significant other. I agree with garro's post (above). I would do the same ('take a holiday.......') but it's also a 'money thing' so some of us stay put and make the best of things.

As for being 'happy' - I think that word is bandied around too much. 'Being content' is a better phrase. Few people other than kids are really happy in life, other than occassional spurts. ....or perhaps it's just a matter of semantics. Really though, look around you at the people you see day to day - how many adults appear to be genuinely happy? In my view, if one attains sustained contentment, that's a big plus.

well said

contentment = reality minus expectations

if your expectations are greater than reality, you will never be content

interesting study came out, men said they were happiest between the ages of 18-24 and the most unhappy between 35-45, the key is contentment, not necessarliy "happiness", where happiness is a fleeting emotion and contentment is a state of being

Edited October 29, 2007 by bingobongo

[exexpat]

What I've found to be true regards "fitting in" in Asia is that a simple knowledge of the 

language isn't enough to be seen as "one of us".  Even if you only speak in Thai, and everyone understands you, it isn't good enough. But then again, the same thing goes 

in the US.  If a Chinese person comes to you and says "Will you help me with homeworks?", nobody would misunderstand, but nobody would think of you as a

"local".  This is key.  Unless you have near native COMMAND OF THE LANGUAGE, understand the culture from a local's point of view, and not just fluency where others can understand you and vice versa, then people will see you as an outsider.  In other words, could you accidentally confuse locals on the phone after an hour conversation that you are Thai?  Could you accidentally confuse people to believe you've lived in Thailand your whole life?

However, despite you race, people WILL accept you if you can argue the finer points of complicated subjects in Thai without making obvious mistakes.  This is true cuz I know some Vietnamese and Indian people who lived in Thailand since they were young and went thru the Thai school system.  They feel as Thai as anyone else, and don't feel like an outsider.

This seems to be the crux of the "one of us" dispute, whether its Japan, China, or elsewhere. In fact, in Japan, people did get confused in thinking that I went thru the Japanese public school system....and I am look very very farang, though I'm mixed ancestry. That's how I know.

However, as a white person in Japan, its far better. I would not want to be seen as a "local". Its too much burden. If you could see how people treated you as a "Thai", you probably would be glad they don't.

But don't be surprised if your failure to assimilate is looked upon badly. I can tell ya now that people in the US who aren't assimilating get the same sort of resentment. It's just the tables are turned, and now you're the immigrant.

As for liking it here...thats up to you man.

Edited October 29, 2007 by exexpat

[Naam]

Could it be that you are a little to easy saying that you not speek the language ( after 4 years ! ) . How can this be?.Please explane me ,I do not understand your arguments !!!!!

of course i can't speak for others, only for myself. 2½ years ago i was quite interested in learning thai. i thought it would have helped when supervising the construction of my home. but there was no time left and i had to manage with the few words i acquired by spending my holidays for many years in Thailand.

now i could make time available to learn the language but i am not willing to waste that time for something that is of no use to me. i don't socialise with Thais (nor do i socialise with foreigners), i don't need to speak thai when buying some technical item once in a blue moon in a home improvement or an electronic store and our domestic staff manages with english.

so please explain to me why i should speak thai as i do not understand your arguments.

[tropo]

now i could make time available to learn the language but i am not willing to waste that time for something that is of no use to me. i don't socialise with Thais (nor do i socialise with foreigners), i don't need to speak thai when buying some technical item once in a blue moon in a home improvement or an electronic store and our domestic staff manages with english.

so please explain to me why i should speak thai as i do not understand your arguments.

Learning a foreign language takes a huge effort (especially for the not-so-young), and unless there is a very good reason to do so, it really is a total waste of time.

I've already forgotten a language I spent many years studying which I no longer have any use for.

At the very least, a person would want to be sure of their visa status first.

[gdk]

I live in Thailand about 20 years and still cannot eat the food, no variation any province you go all the same menu's, even my wife Thai can cook much better than at some so called restaurants, what trouble me the most Thai people are noisy, where I live some one as a party you can hear the basses from 3 Km faraway Even my wife who been to my country Belgium she agree with me in Europe is better than here except the weather. We have been 3 times to Laos there I have no trouble with the noise and the food there you taste what you eat, when you ask no spicy they listen not like here

I can go on and on

gdk

[meadish_sweetball]

I live in Thailand about 20 years and still cannot eat the food, no variation any province you go all the same menu's, even my wife Thai can cook much better than at some so called restaurants, what trouble me the most Thai people are noisy, where I live some one as a party you can hear the basses from 3 Km faraway Even my wife who been to my country Belgium she agree with me in Europe is better than here except the weather. We have been 3 times to Laos there I have no trouble with the noise and the food there you taste what you eat, when you ask no spicy they listen not like here

I can go on and on

gdk

Just give it a bit of time and Laotians will have access to the same size bass speakers as their Thai brethren... then watch what happens.

[PeaceBlondie]

Speaking of loud music, I won't get away from that if I move to Mexico. It can't be any worse than Mexican semana santa at the beach, literally tens of thousands of watts of speakers across the street from me, 20 hours per day.....Thailand hasn't been nearly that noisy. I'm trying not to jump into this willy-nilly wearing rose-colored glasses.

I am exasperated at constant conversations in which I cannot be a participant, cannot understand more than 1% of the words. You needn't have taught language to know that 1% comprehension does not communicate.

Back to the dilemma about working here legally: currently I'm prohibited by my pension from working more than 45 hours per month, as an employee overseas. I don't want to lie to my pension, and I don't want to teach full time in any event. I cannot get a work permit to teach as a self-employed person (I checked). The employers tell me they don't have extra work permits to give to part time old men. Two of the oldest schools in northern Thailand, where I worked full time and was fully qualified to teach, couldn't get me a work permit (although lately they've actually learned how to do it, but probably not for part timers).

There are other minor concerns (advanced medical care in my old age, annual visa renewals, etc.).

[Suszzy]

so...have you decided what do you want to do yet?

stay..and give it another go..perhaps!!

[DavidS]

PB,

If the unhappiness is inside you, seeking the solution outside will never work. I would normally suggest a trip away from Thailand to see if perspectives change, but you feel that will not work.

All I can suggest then is to go to where your heart pulls you. You will either feel better there, or you will have to deal with what ails you inside.

Good Luck in your search for happiness.

David.

[blizzard]

im still alarmed. why doesnt anyone just say he should just go! sure sound like he doesnt want to be here!

i tink peeps dont cum out and say leeve coz he moderator. you guys just trying to be politically not insulting.

be men peeple.

[kmart]

It's not a rehearsal for anything. This is your own life, and if you seriously aren't happy here and can make a clean break without wives / kids or any other baggage then you shouldn't be listening to anybody else's opinion on the matter; just make the break.

[Jingthing]

Another person touched on this: is happiness really a realistic goal for most people? I think people are mostly talking about a pursuit of happiness, and when living in Thailand starts to feel like it is not leading there, that could lead to severe depression or the impulse to seek somewhere else. The latter sounds healthier. What's stopping you?

[BalthazarBeefheart]

I have found it most enlightening to read through these posts - That old saying "If its too hot in the kitchen" springs to mind. I am beginning to realise why I have come across so many of your countrymen and mine who just complain all the time about everything Thai. I really sympathise if you find the cuisine so nauseating - can't you get hamburgers in Chiang Mai ?

I wonder if you are suffering from depression - if you are then believe me nowhere you go will be any better - you need to learn to live with the depression first.

Good luck BB

[AlexLah]

Hi PB,

My sincere apologies to you.

It was not trying to offend you but I only tried a litlle bit different approach with no bad intentions.

You know sometimes a bit harder approach works to people that are a bit down.

But obviously for you you have no reason or need to stay in Thailand so why stay?

Why not spend your life in a place where you think/believe you feel more happy?

I tell you, I have been send by my company to Thailand and at times I absolutely hate Thailand, Thai food, Thai people and some of their culture.

Thailand would never be my country of choice to stay in Asia, but I try to make the best of it.

I have worked/stayed in more then 60 country's and can say that most people are friendly everywhere.

Think of it as being in a relation, you know when it is "over"

You are just not "in love" anymore and you are longing to spend your time in other ways.

Yes spend time with family while you still can, enjoy the food you like, enjoy people you can interact with.

Thailand is not paradise, it is just another country.

Enjoy life PB in whatever country that is, there is no need to find multiple reasons why you decide to go elsewhere.

If something does not feel good, change that state into a feel good whatever that means.

Take care and wish you all the best!

Alex

[FBN]

I have found it most enlightening to read through these posts - That old saying "If its too hot in the kitchen" springs to mind. I am beginning to realise why I have come across so many of your countrymen and mine who just complain all the time about everything Thai. I really sympathise if you find the cuisine so nauseating - can't you get hamburgers in Chiang Mai ?

I wonder if you are suffering from depression - if you are then believe me nowhere you go will be any better - you need to learn to live with the depression first.

Good luck BB

There is no perfect place; if there were, it would be overpopulated which again, would not make it the perfect place anyway..

The are mountains and molehills. It becomes difficult sometimes to distinguish between them... it usually means that you are too close...

Try and be objective.

Try thus:

Make a spreadsheet, list or piece of paper with 2 columns. Pros and Cons; all of them.

Write them down.

Add a "weight" score to each of them; how important are they to you..

Calculate the totals and compare...

I have lived in 7 countries and still travel a lot. Liked them all; Africa, Middle East, Canada, Europe (Paris). Never really wanted to stay permanently in any one. In LOS now for 8 years...

Every time I return from a trip away and the plane breaks through the clouds over the Big Mango to come in to land and I see the rice paddies and the river, I feel I have come home again...

(Then head for my favourite place for som tam and gai yang and then I really feel home!!!)

[blizzard]

whats these high profile incidents? a lot of it ihs same ole same ole,

[jamesc2000]

Should I bother to stay in Thailand if it's obvious that I will never speak or read Thai

Get to a school and learn! Do it full time for 6 months- an excellent investment - just think you'll be able to walk into a bank and talk to them, chat with someone at a bus stop, ask directions, get a boyfriend, etc etc etc. Your time here will be so much better. Don't procrastinate.

Here's your first lesson - don't procrastinate = ya plaat wan bpragan pruung sorry not allowed to write the Thai.

That's great advice! Don't procrastinate - start first thing tomorrow!

[monkeyclub]

• Thailand is great
  For short stays of no more than a tolerable 2-3 months max
  
• Employment
  Forget it unless your loaded with Uni quals, the rest is a self induced headache,
  Make your money overseas and chill out there on your leave rotation
  
• Language
  Anything but the basics to get by is a waste of time, where else can I speak Thai but in Thailand, better off learning the top few - French,Spanish,Arabic,Chinese etc ...
  

• Food
  Individual tastes
  

<U>

• Visa's</U> ????
  

Theres more on this planet than Thailand, why waste your energy in a country that will NEVER accept you as anything but a Foreigner, regardless of how long you've been there, have wife have kids have husband, how fluent your language ability is or how much money you spend "supporting" local firms ... the list is endless

Thailand is a great no brainer chill out destination, but thats all, in fact the toughest decision I have to make when there is, where to eat? and thats exactly how I wish to keep it.

I truly do not understand those who submit themselves to endless &lt;deleted&gt; in order to stay there.

For the sensitive here, The above is an individuals points of view of course, it is'nt my intention to come here offending.

Cheers, enjoy.