Well it seems the clear majority are against allowing banned posters to return. I have to admit to being surprised at the result, but at least - as far as I am concerned - the issue is now resolved (to the extent that there will be no need to put forward a suggestion for changing the rules).

Thanks to all for contributing.

Interesting thread. I do agree that there should be a system in place that allows banned members a way back. I think it would have to have a degree of subjection as some members are banned for 'valid' reasons.

Ban the OP now and we'll find out.

QUOTE (Mossfinn @2008-01-17 03:34:01) A Troll is a Troll, is a Troll,...

To be sure, to be sure, to be sure...

"Banned for life" is a kind of surrealistic expression to me.

In my view it is a heavy inquisition-like punishment without the possibility of parole, forgiveness if you wish.

Of course I have no idea what the reasons are behind a decision to ban a member and maybe it's different for every banned member by a certain Super Moderator or member of the Administration group.

In the case of a troll it's easy but I think there are members, other than trolls, who are banned for whatever reasons, minor or major.

But, to ban a member for life, because he/she misbehaved one or more times in the eyes of an Administration-member and/or a Moderator is something which is difficult, for me, to understand. Difficult to understand because there is no forgiveness, possible.

In other words: "We will NEVER EVER forgive you and you are banned for life".

We are all human beings with our positive and negative qualities. Sometimes we feel good, in other moments we feel lousy, sick or terrible. We feel tired, had a row with our partner, received bad news from far away back home, or many more other possible reasons which could influence our -otherwise- normal rational behaviour.

One of them could influence our behaviour to become irrational which we wouldn't normally express to others or in writing...whether Mod, Admin. or member.

The men and women behind the names and avatars of Admin. and Mods are people of flesh and blood, human beings with the same emotional feelings as US, normal members, and some are probably 'cooler' than others -from all 3 groups- and will react more relaxed than others.

Age -and health !- however plays a role here too. Some younger members, Mods and Admin. are more hot tempered than older ones...

My personal opinion is that Adm. and Mods would show their Greatness and Wisdom to reconsider the possibility of re-entrance of certain banned-for-life members.

"feel also free to put one of your thumbs up your ass. you have my permission to do so."

Are you shocked ?

Is this kind of language a reason for a warning or banning ? If a member wrote this to another member (PM) is that a reason for a warning or banning, if reported ?

Would you: Admin.-member or Mods-member ban such a member if he/she wrote that to you ?

Interesting question, isn't it..... but I can tell you that I felt heavily insulted when I read the same, above, just a few days ago in my Inbox.

Still...forgiveness is a far greater 'Good' than persistence. It also feels better to be able to forgive rather than to stay angry with a person who wrote such language, losing control and not knowing how to reverse....

I assure you that this fellow-member feels more lousy than I do....

Just IMHO.

LaoPo

If a banned member really feels that he/she wants to come back and contribute properly, then all he/she has to do is just invent a new nickname and starts posting, but plays by the rules this time. But, if they feel so aggrieved with their banning that they want to cause trouble, then they will just add to ThaiVisa's troll population instead.

Some of these trolls, though, if they had some kind of legitimate route back into TV properly, may give up the trolling and come back as a normal poster instead. Similarly, if a member who creates a new Nickname and wants to be sensible this time gets found out, they will be booted out also, even if the new leaf they've turned over hasn't actually done anything wrong yet. This will only add to the resentment and make them more liekey to start trolling next time.

These issues could be solved by allowing banned members back in somehow.

I think it is safe to assume that a re-incarnated troll who behaves well in his second life will be unharmed as it is much too difficult to track who is who among 50,000+ members.

Once they start trolling again, the will appear sooner or later on the mod's radar and since the patterns of the individual trolls usually repeat, they become quite easy to spot.

I know of one member, very high profile and postcount, who was banned a couple of times. (problems when on the piss) He came back again with a new nik and posted quietly, sensibly and very helpfully for some time, before he was suddenly banned again.

I guess a mod worked out who he was from his posts the same way I did. He hadn't, from what I could see, done anything in his reinvented persona to breach rules.

I don't know because I am not a mod, but I assume that disciplining or enduring offensive members is the part of the job they least enjoy. I can't see why we would be in favor of bringing back someone who has proven total disregard for the nominal rules and propriety of Thai Visa. I think once an offender is gone the mods do not deserve to be dragged back through the same crap. This is an adult world, I am not interested in pandering to those who are incapable of even a modicum of respect towards what is a free and exceptionally beneficial asset to expats. It is amazing we don't have to earn this privilage Show some respect or get lost, it is simple as that.

That being said, I am assuming the process of being banned includes some reasonable tolereance and members are aware of when they are close to the edge. Is it possible to know how many strikes you have against you?

I know of one member, very high profile and postcount, who was banned a couple of times. (problems when on the piss) He came back again with a new nik and posted quietly, sensibly and very helpfully for some time, before he was suddenly banned again.

I guess a mod worked out who he was from his posts the same way I did. He hadn't, from what I could see, done anything in his reinvented persona to breach rules.

Do you know why this member has been banned again? The post prompting the banning is most of the time not visible to the general public - for obvious reason.

I for one would really like to see what the mods can see...must be a fun read....I also enjoy watching multiple train wrecks...

I think the mods are sufficiently experienced to handle these things - I doubt that someone would get banned without really pushing their luck.

As a former moderator elsewhere, I have a lot of sympathy for the mods here, where it is obviously a very tough job. But they've got a points system in place, warnings issued when necessary, etc. and if it didn't work well it would have been changed a long time ago.

I do have some sympathy for people who get banned, but they too should be adult enough to know when they are crossing the line. It should not get to the stage where they have to come back under a different name, if they wish to come back they can knock at the door, rather than trying to get in through a window. Anyone who uses the window warrants an immediate ban no matter how good they have been.

It would be interesting to hear from a banned member on this, they don't have to admit to being Lazarus, just get a friend to post on their behalf, then we can lok at the posting history of what is left.

Personally, I don't think it is about forgiveness, it is about stupidity, there are several, 'fail safes', already in place, when a member transgresses these, he gets warned, banned or censored, why should the mods or admin have to go through this process all over again?

As a mod once said to me, when we were having a frank exchange of views, 'we are all volunteers', perhaps there should be a form of appeal to Admin, in case there is an unhealthy dislike for a poster by a MOD, so the extreme sanction, perhaps should be approved by Admin.

"feel also free to put one of your thumbs up your ass. you have my permission to do so."

Are you shocked ?

Is this kind of language a reason for a warning or banning ? If a member wrote this to another member (PM) is that a reason for a warning or banning, if reported ?

Would you: Admin.-member or Mods-member ban such a member if he/she wrote that to you ?

Interesting question, isn't it..... but I can tell you that I felt heavily insulted when I read the same, above, just a few days ago in my Inbox.

I am a little surprised that you of all people LaoPo would receive such a message, report it to mods, offensive attacks on posters, even by PM is frowned upon.

I would be a little hacked off myself if I received a message like that, or you could just put them on ignore.

Sorry to hear, that you got such a message, even so.

Moss

....perhaps there should be a form of appeal to Admin, in case there is an unhealthy dislike for a poster by a MOD, so the extreme sanction, perhaps should be approved by Admin.

Good idea.

LaoPo

Ban everyone and then start again from scratch...

....perhaps there should be a form of appeal to Admin, in case there is an unhealthy dislike for a poster by a MOD, so the extreme sanction, perhaps should be approved by Admin.

Good idea.

LaoPo

as a matter of fact, mods can only dish out holidays. Banning is done by admin only on recommendation of a mod.

....perhaps there should be a form of appeal to Admin, in case there is an unhealthy dislike for a poster by a MOD, so the extreme sanction, perhaps should be approved by Admin.

Good idea.

LaoPo

as a matter of fact, mods can only dish out holidays. Banning is done by admin only on recommendation of a mod.

Although a holiday can last thousands of years, so effectively is the same as banning.

Ban everyone and then start again from scratch...

Radical idea Patsy!

Ban everyone and then start again from scratch...

Radical idea Patsy!

Or ban everyone, telling them to sign up again under a different name. That should up the membership count by a significant amount and therefore up the advertising fees

Ban everyone and then start again from scratch...

Radical idea Patsy!

Or ban everyone, telling them to sign up again under a different name. That should up the membership count by a significant amount and therefore up the advertising fees

Now that is clever!

....perhaps there should be a form of appeal to Admin, in case there is an unhealthy dislike for a poster by a MOD, so the extreme sanction, perhaps should be approved by Admin.

Good idea.

LaoPo

as a matter of fact, mods can only dish out holidays. Banning is done by admin only on recommendation of a mod.

I am/wasn't aware of the rules.

LaoPo

Should calling callin someone a gimp get you suspended for 2 weeks ....I mean really ? just askin, not for me, just a friend that wants to know.

Should calling callin someone a gimp get you suspended for 2 weeks ....I mean really ? just askin, not for me, just a friend that wants to know.

I suppose it would have to be put in context and the whole thread looked at in isolation. Intent versus impact is always a difficult issue.

There are people on here i could openly call a Gimp and they would know that i had said it in jest. Therefore they know my intent was a joke and the impact is that they took it as one. This cannot be easily achieved with those that you haven't met in real life or gained a "cyber" relationship with. I got called a "Clog Dancer" last week <deleted> Fortunately i knew Ken was joking (but he doesn't know how near to the truth he was)

I put a member on ignore last month - the first time I have done it in my time on this board

I used to just wheel past his posts , his avatar would indicate to me I didn't want to read what was written.

then he changed his avatar , to one which was annoying , so I adblocked the image , which meant I ended up reading some of his posts again.

in the end I just thought <deleted> it , and put him on ignore - but I still get hit when someone quotes him - which is happening less and less .

Insults I really don't give a sh1t about - but pompous ignorance stirs me up.

who Stu ?

From my perspective the reasons for banishment seem pretty arbitrary. Some of the most intelligent and witty posters have been banned while others who start topics about their defecation habits and similarly banal topics are still here. It's puzzling. I would like to see the admin offer a general amnesty to banned members.

Yes Lanna you do have a point there, this is a fairly left leaning forum. I have seen well-stated right wing opinions removed under the charge of flaming. And I can see how a poster can get on the bad side of some and be loved by others. It's just like real life, there are people that enjoy your company, and others that act like you need a bath or something. I would hope that there is some sort of group decision and limited investigation before a banning.

And I am going to try and bathe more often

Actually, this topic is quite interesting since Thaivisa is a private business oriented initiative (is that correct Gentlemen ?).

That's fine and in fact I admire and like people who 'create' something out of the blue and make a success out of it.

Most likely, in the beginning the same creator(s) didn't foresee the huge success and the nasty problems that came along with the same success. Most business people who ever created a successful business know all about it

During the, sometimes painful, growth process it's no longer possible to control the ever growing stream, waterfall if you wish, of messages and you (the creator(s)) need people to help you. The income doesn't allow you yet to pay those people so you ask the help of people you know, trust and/or are thought to be wise enough to assist...and the freelance/unpaid Moderators and/or Super Moderators are born.

Good and clever system to help to steer the content and integrity of the website.

But as I said earlier, we are ALL made of flesh and blood, human beings, and nobody in this world is perfect or unerring, faultless, whether we belong to a team of Mods, Admin or 'simple' members.

As we all know, there are numerous cases of Judges and Juries who made serious mistakes and sent people to prison or even death row....innocent people.

That doesn't mean that banned members didn't deserve a punishment, even serious punishments....but banned-for-life ?

Most of us were born in more or less democratic countries.

Maybe it's an idea to create a democratic 'panel' of wise men/women consisting of members of Admin. and TV members who can vote about a banning, yes or no...?

LaoPo

like there is something wrong with defecation habits....honest healthy subject, where would we all be without it.

like there is something wrong with defecation habits....honest healthy subject, where would we all be without it.

I imagine it's one of the great things about being an Aussie, that you can find so many kindered souls with whom to discuss these weighty matters.

Unless a banning is made by admin directly, they are all discussed.

And Lao Po, abuse is against the rules, whether by PM or in public. I would hope that the next time someone sends you a nasty PM that you could send it on to me or another mod. There is no need to get abuse in one's inbox as well. It is something that people can be warned about, something to bear in mind when PMing people.

like there is something wrong with defecation habits....honest healthy subject, where would we all be without it.

I imagine it's one of the great things about being an Aussie, that you can find so many kindered souls with whom to discuss these weighty matters.

More weighty if you're a veggy!

Lao po

Either you can do it the nice way as SBK says, or we could invite him on a football beer night in Bangkok and MrToad, Chavy, Myself and the gang can show him the way to the nearest Klang

Do you think that banning a member has ever stopped them from posting?

Chownah